A test & feedback of Walter's fault tolerance towards Bee Queen: Facetanking is available! (If you insist to do)

[Steorra]

Since we do have urgently worries about the "misinfomation" of Walter these days, see reference:

And I do see some "misinfomation" about the difficulty of Bee Queen fighting of Walter, see reference:

So I decide to do this test to show you how to fight Bee Queen with Armor's protection which gives you extremely high fault tolerance.

Check the video:

 For average characters, Thulecite Crown & Scale Armor are high needed for the fight of Bee Queen. So for an average standard, to use these 2 items for Walter's Bee Queen test is fair enough.

 

A very simple logical & reasonable scenario for the Bee Queen fight is -

You could go ruin rush by using Walter first (It's really really EZ and brainless, trust me. If I have enough spare time I would give another test and thread for elaborating how to use Walter for an EZ ruin rush in early game),

then after you finished your ruin journey and looted all things you interest by using Woby Here Woby There (You could simply use multiple backpacks as a cheaper chest to using WHWT ability for helping you to loot EVERYTHINGs from the ruin),

go kill dragonfly just like how you punch a punchbag by using your stackable slowing effect.

Once you got Thulecite Crown and Scale Armor, prepare some healing & sanity recovering staffs, Woby's food, light source, ammos, then you could brainless auto-killed Bee Queen once you located her position.

 

I have to clarify one thing - since I'm lack of Walter's experiences, I was used Scappe Frame for EVERY Bee Queen video tests I posted (one of them had been locked). After my friend pointed that out I know I should use Thulecite Frame for Bee Queen fight and it would makes the fight become much more easier than my test, which makes you could make the 3 stacks slowing effect work for grumble bees as well.

 

 

[Mayhemms]

Somehow, your video reinforces even further the notions of why Walter a) has an extremely low fault tolerance when fighting Bee Queen (or any other boss, for that matter), b) shooting enemies with the slingshot is not brainless at all and requires sharp game sense and active perception, as Walter's movement while slingshotting + ammo/slingshot switching (which are consciously and actively player-controlled) determine how well and fast he can do ranged combat, and c) cannot, for the love of his and Woby's life, continuously and mindlessly tank enemies in the same way as anyone else in the roster does, even with armor, most especially at the early stages of the game.

[Steorra]

24 minutes ago, Mayhemms said:

Somehow, your video reinforces even further the notions of why Walter a) has an extremely low fault tolerance when fighting Bee Queen (or any other boss, for that matter), b) shooting enemies with the slingshot is not brainless at all and requires sharp game sense and active perception, as Walter's movement while slingshotting + ammo/slingshot switching (which are consciously and actively player-controlled) determine how well and fast he can do ranged combat, and c) cannot, for the love of his and Woby's life, continuously and mindlessly tank enemies in the same way as anyone else in the roster does, even with armor, most especially at the early stages of the game.

All your arguments are false truth and misinformation.

A. Mostly characters need to prepare thulecite crown and scale armor for BQ fight. Walter would have far more fault tolerance than regular characters for BQ fight once he do same preparation, because Walter is range attacker who have strong slowing effect which almost disabled the BQ herself completely, and even same for grumble bees pnce you use thulecite frame.

I do no need to say how I lack of Walter's experience but I already gave the video evidence to show how the BQ fight is EZ for me

Also please choose your pills -

1. Steorra is lack of Walter's experiences but could do BQ easily which proved that BQ fight is truly easy for Walter.

2. Steorra is experienced Walter player. Which means Steorra's feedback have more credibility.

B. Are you kidding? Your words seems is hinting that "fighting by using slingshot is harder than using spear". All "weapon switch", "dodge moving" slingshot need to do is be same needed to melee fighting. And it's obviously range fighting us far more EZ than melee especially when you stacked the slowing effect to the target.

C. No one said that you "have to" brainless tanking. Facetank is a choice. It's is available for Walter which means regular armor protection is ENOUGH for making Walter's combat have high fault tolerance - And the ruin rush test could perfectly prove this argument. If you would insist to ask for a ruin rush test of Walter, I'd do it for you laterly.

 

Please give evidence and logical argument for the discussion next time, if you DO want to persuade the devs to believe your opinions. However, if you join the discussion only for your personal interest or personal emotions, feel free to continue and good luck.

[Gashzer]

You are using pretty late game gear, ofc it's easy. Ruins gear makes bosses easy for every character.

Steorra try this without expensive slow down rounds or thulecite rounds.

If klei nerf slow down rounds, you know what is gonna happen? People are gonna use them purple gems and moonrocks they save and use it to swap to Wendy to destroy bee queen then swap back to Walter. That's how expensive they really are.

[Mayhemms]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

All your arguments are false truth and misinformation.

A. Mostly characters need to prepare thulecite crown and scale armor for BQ fight. Walter would have far more fault tolerance than regular characters for BQ fight once he do same preparation, because Walter is range attacker who have strong slowing effect which almost disabled the BQ herself completely, and even same for grumble bees pnce you use thulecite frame.

I do no need to say how I lack of Walter's experience but I already gave the video evidence to show how the BQ fight is EZ for me

Also please choose your pills -

1. Steorra is lack of Walter's experiences but could do BQ easily which proved that BQ fight is truly easy for Walter.

2. Steorra is experienced Walter player. Which means Steorra's feedback have more credibility.

B. Are you kidding? Your words seems is hinting that "fighting by using slingshot is harder than using spear". All "weapon switch", "dodge moving" slingshot need to do is be same needed to melee fighting. And it's obviously range fighting us far more EZ than melee especially when you stacked the slowing effect to the target.

C. No one said that you "have to" brainless tanking. Facetank is a choice. It's is available for Walter which means regular armor protection is ENOUGH for making Walter's combat have high fault tolerance - And the ruin rush test could perfectly prove this argument. If you would insist to ask for a ruin rush test of Walter, I'd do it for you laterly.

 

Please give evidence and logical argument for the discussion next time, if you DO want to persuade the devs to believe your opinions. However, if you join the discussion only for your personal interest or personal emotions, feel free to continue and good luck.

Oh, don't worry, I'm not here to persuade anyone nor to accept/refute debated rhetorics that have been going on for so many beta forum pages now, I do not really have any time for that. I just pointed out that your video serves as a good proof of why an evasive and ranged gameplay style is Walter's natural fit thus far given his basekit perks and quirks, and why we do not have much room for error when fighting with the slingshot, as Walter's sanity and health (+ shadow creatures spawning and disrupting the fight flow, + the actual fight ongoing, with the aggro still on you, + prolonging the fight, which costs resources, efforts, player stats, and time, + Walter's god-awful small hunger stat + etc etc etc all the other factors that affect regular gameplay) is on the line, as well as why slingshotting is a valid and mindful form of DST combat, just like using spears and hambats, amassing gunpowder, assembling catapults or mob armies, or even using clean sweepers and umbrellas to hack down bosses. I also won't mind nerfs to the Slowdown and Icker rounds as I believe they can be quite too powerful when fully stacked, as long as they do not hurt the fun aspect of playing Walter too much (I personally believe two-stack effects for the Slowdown Rounds should be already enough, and the Icker Rounds' slowing duration can be reduced to around anywhere from 30-50 secs given how ridiculously powerful their slowdown effect is). But aside from that, I said what I said. Glhf and enjoy playing Walter in your own way. We'll play him in ours. 

[Steorra]

Thulecite Frame + Slow-Down Rounds test towards BQ, to show how a CRAZY fault tolerance Walter has in the battle which supposed to be his nightmare.

You could even DANCE when grumble bees get angry with you by BQ's screaming!!! 

TBH I don't know how to switch those 2 type ammos in Thulecite Frame, I don't know how to use Thulecite ammo for the Frame's special attack once I make the slowing AoE effect enough. Could anyone help me?

18 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

You are using pretty late game gear, ofc it's easy. Ruins gear makes bosses easy for every character.

You are trying to Deflecting the original topic from "Bee Queen should not become the most easier challenge for Walter rather than for other characters" & "Walter's stackable slowing effect is broken" & "Walter do have high fault tolerance when fight BQ" into "Thulecite & Scale gears is late game gear". This make no sence toward my original topic. Keep the discussion on topic or I ignore you.

15 minutes ago, Mayhemms said:

and why we do not have much room for error when fighting with the slingshot,

False truth again.

Do you really believe that you do not have much room for error but I have the privilege to have much room for /DANCE? Check the new video above which using Thulecite Frame.

[Jakepeng99]

Its also kinda easy to get back on woby after being bucked.

23 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

You are using pretty late game gear, ofc it's easy. Ruins gear makes bosses easy for every character

Ruins is early to mid game nowadays apparently.

And not really

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Its also kinda easy to get back on woby after being bucked.

Yes. I was thought if Woby need a new skill for 2-4 extra hits taken tolerance. But after this newest test I did by using thulecite crown for BQ specifically, I started to doubt that if Woby do urgent need such new skill or not now.

Wooden Armor is already far more enough for Walter's early ruin rush. So the Woby's new skill idea is only for helping fixing Walter's interaction with BQ. If the interaction with BQ need not to fix, then this skill is unnecessary.

[Y0sH]

I'm so confused, who said this fight was supposed to be impossible or difficult for Walter? What does fighting BQ this way prove?

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

who said this fight was supposed to be impossible or difficult for Walter?

We already have similar logic happened to many times during the beta but those logic seems would only happen to Wendy. But their fantasy of "balance" did touching me so I changed my mind and started to think the "balance" is do important (to every characters).

It's just "Walter's main downside should is the bees. Which means he should never have an EZ time for BQ fight", since main downside fixing is intolerant for a character balance.

[Y0sH]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

We already have similar logic happened to many times during the beta but those logic seems would only happen to Wendy. But their fantasy of "balance" did touching me so I changed my mind and started to think the "balance" is do important (to every characters).

Ok, found the other post about this. You for some reason think bees are Walter's Main downside when it's actually him losing a portion of Sanity when he takes damage (proven in this video). Got it carry on bud.

[Echsrick]

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164202-video-evidence-bee-queen-was-supposed-to-be-walters-main-downside-nightmare-but-now-is-only-a-punchbag-the-slowing-rounds-is-broken/

have you not allready posted this here before? so whats the point of posting the same thing again?

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

Ok, found the other post about this. You for some reason think bees are Walter's Main downside when it's actually him losing a portion of Sanity when he takes damage (proven in this video). Got it carry on bud.

Not exactly tbh. Another thing I care about is the Shadow Prison II from the stackable slowing effect of Walter.

You may had seen I had clarified that the Shadow Prison is the most intolerant thing for me which I think "break the balance". Here's same reason for me to ask a fix for Walter's stackable slowing effect.

2 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164202-video-evidence-bee-queen-was-supposed-to-be-walters-main-downside-nightmare-but-now-is-only-a-punchbag-the-slowing-rounds-is-broken/

have you not allready posted this here before? so whats the point of posting the same thing again?

They are not same, or moderator would simply lock my thread. You may go check what Joew said here:

 

 

[Echsrick]

joew said something sure....but IN A COMPLETLY UNRELATED thread...what is it you are trying to say? and it still looks very same that being about walter and bee queen interaction and how you think walter is "op" and ignores his down side and other stuff like that

[ArcAngela]

27 minutes ago, Steorra said:

We already have similar logic happened to many times during the beta but those logic seems would only happen to Wendy. But their fantasy of "balance" did touching me so I changed my mind and started to think the "balance" is do important (to every characters).

It's just "Walter's main downside should is the bees. Which means he should never have an EZ time for BQ fight", since main downside fixing is intolerant for a character balance.

I love these tropes where the villain monologues about their motives and reasons, proudly revealing their entire plan so that it can be sabotaged.

No, Walter's main weakness has never been bees. Slow-down rounds don't need nerfs because "think of the bees!".
"Wendy got nerfed so Walter has to be nerfed" is not constructive, and quite frankly I'm surprised you keep getting away with this dishonesty.
I mean, you just told the entire room that your reasoning behind these suggestions is out of spite for Wendy. That's just petty.

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, ArcAngela said:

I love these tropes where the villain monologues about their motives and reasons, proudly revealing their entire plan so that it can be sabotaged.

No, Walter's main weakness has never been bees. Slow-down rounds don't need nerfs because "think of the bees!".
"Wendy got nerfed so Walter has to be nerfed" is not constructive, and quite frankly I'm surprised you keep getting away with this dishonesty.
I mean, you quite literally just told the entire room that your reasoning behind these suggestions is out of spite for Wendy. That's just petty.

Not exactly. I already said I DO care the imbalance of Shadow Prison.

Your words is not constructive and is off topic. 

Also deflecting the issue from folks' flexible balance standard toward different characters into it's Steorra's personal emotional thing is more like a intentional defence to the flexible standard folks had.

Just remind that - go erase a voice which revealed folks' flexible standard and dishonesty won't help those flexible standard and dishonesty become justice.

[Y0sH]

"(Video evidence) Bee Queen was supposed to be Walter's main downside nightmare, but now is only a punchbag. The slowing rounds is broken." 

That's the title of the last post... And within that post you circle that Walters allergic to bees therefore BeeQueen should be impossible for him... When that is literally not true, at all. So you made an entirely different post trying to make the same point when the "point" in the first place was based in "false truths"

The "false truths" being "Walter is allergic to Bees so he shouldn't be able to kill Been Queen" lol. However I applaud your amount of dedication to prove absolutely nothing.

[salty_cookie]

Great idea finally we can stop Walter bullying poor bee queen. Now we should also save her from evil Wendy. I suggest making Abigail have a fear of bees and would run away.

[Gashzer]

We should make it that bee queen is immune to all character perks/abilities. (Immunity to abigail, lunar flame, shadow prison, catapults, slingshot, Wolfgang 2x damage etc.)

That way every character is balanced... maybe we should do this with every boss just to be sure to be sure... 

[Crimson Hollow]

Walter's new core equipment: Scalemail.

[Steorra]

26 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

We should make it that bee queen is immune to all character perks/abilities. (Immunity to abigail, lunar flame, shadow prison, catapults, slingshot, Wolfgang 2x damage etc.)

That way every character is balanced... maybe we should do this with every boss just to be sure to be sure... 

for the current stage for my personally opinions, only stackable slowing effect and Shadow Prison is imbalance.

Though you have your right to share your opinions on topic or by creating a new thread.

[Gashzer]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

for the current stage for my personally opinions, only stackable slowing effect and Shadow Prison is imbalance.

Though you have your right to share your opinions on topic or by creating a new thread.

My feedback is the cost of the purple gem and requiring a thulecite frame which in turn requires a trip to the most dangerous area in DST makes slow down rounds balanced. 

This is without even considering Walter's allergy to bees which is an insane downside unlike no other in the game.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

My feedback is the cost of the purple gem and requiring a thulecite frame which in turn requires a trip to the most dangerous area in DST makes slow down rounds balanced. 

This is without even considering Walter's allergy to bees which is an insane downside unlike no other in the game.

I hope you could link your OP or start a new topic for the discussion. Though I have to say, as a "hardcore" Walter player, you do know that the ruin is not the most dangerous mission for Walter right?

[Arcwell]

What is the point of this thread

[Y0sH]

3 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

What is the point of this thread