The deliver skill of Woby (Woby there here) do need a cost for lore's & balance's sake

[Steorra]

I have no interest to thinking if other things of Woby is ok or not (they mostly are fine for me personally). But the deliver ability of Woby is a bit... beyond the line.

It could simply help you much for your inventory management - or, even you could say that the deliver skill of Woby could easily break the basic inventory management logic of the game. It's a far more powerful ability than Maxwell's Shadow hat & box.

Just imagine - when you go ruin rush by solo, the inventory management would be a tough mission for most characters, Even maxwell is no exception since his Shadow Hat has limited slots. But when you use Walter with the Woby's deliver ability, you could simply get 9 extra inventory slots per chest. Which means you could have almost no limit inventory slots in an early ruin rush. That makes you could easily rob all loots from the ruin into your home by Woby's help. 

Additionally, we could leave the "balance" topic be here, but turn our views into the lore part - how could our Woby have long-distance journey frequently but not tired at all? (Even Woby would got a bit tired after a dashing, she lost 3 hunger for every single dashing) And it would be quite weird when Woby has no hunger (on starving) but could still go delivering for a long distance in 0 cooldown. At least I think the deliver skill of Woby need some cooldown change (0.75 day per deliver) and some impactful hunger cost of Woby (like 20 hunger cost per deliver, and at least you need 15 hunger for active deliver once) to making this skill being more "reasonable" for the long-distance journey, and also this change could prevent the potential abuse of the deliver skill in early game.

 

TLDR: the free deliver ability of Woby has completely broken the basic inventory management logic of DST; and it's weird to see Woby abusing her deliver ability frequently for many times long-distance journey but never feeling tired / hungry. I suggest to add an impactful (20~25) hunger cost and also a 0.75 day cooldown for the deliver ability of Woby for fixing these problems.

[Cassielu]

I disagree with the idea of Woby delivery consuming hunger, it conflicts with the current idea/mechanic communication of Woby consuming hunger, the main idea/mechanic it conveys is that it is a gauge of how it transforms between large and small forms. So small woby shouldn't have a skill that consumes hunger.

cool down time sounds fine, though.

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Cassielu said:

I disagree with the idea of Woby delivery consuming hunger, it conflicts with the current idea/mechanic communication of Woby consuming hunger, the main idea/mechanic it conveys is that it is a gauge of how it transforms between large and small forms. So small woby shouldn't have a skill that consumes hunger.

cool down time sounds fine, though.

I still insist that the hunger cost and cooldown are both needed for both balance/lore aspects fixing. I can hardly to understand why Woby feel no exhausted once she deliver 9*4*40 marble from one side of your world to another side. Even I do same thing by using a character on foot would lose many hunger.

[Cassielu]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I still insist that the hunger cost and cooldown are both needed for both balance/lore aspects fixing. I can hardly to understand why Woby feel no exhausted once she deliver 9*4*40 marble from one side of your world to another side. Even I do same thing by using a character on foot would lose many hunger.

You forgot that Woby already could have walked an infinite distance without consuming any hunger. 

[Steorra]

14 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

You forgot that Woby already could have walked an infinite distance without consuming any hunger. 

I personally prefer to think that's just an outdated design which was a simple copy from critters. And yes the argument you gave here makes me started to feel that "it's quite weird Woby's hunger would not losing by times". And yes I agree that this need to be fix as well for the immersion's sake.

 

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I personally prefer to think that's just an outdated design which was a simple copy from critters. And yes the argument you gave here makes me started to feel that "it's quite weird Woby's hunger would not losing by times". And yes I agree that this need to be fix as well for the immersion's sake.

 

However, there's another potential explanation for this issue - the hunger of small Woby is not a "true hunger" but just a "transform bar" for small woby, which is similar like Woodie's mechanic in the original DS. So the hunger of small Woby won't lose by time since it's not supposed to work as a "true hunger" concept for small woby.

[shuishuihuohuo]

I disagree. In a recent update, teammates can't open Woby. If a teammate tries to open Woby, Woby will have to consume 20 - 25 points of hunger, and it won't accept Walter's delivery commands for some time afterwards. This goes against Woby's original design. It can protect its master's items from being stolen, but it shouldn't demand a snack from its master for this reason and then refuse to accept commands for a while.

[somethin]

I agree that Woby do need a hunger cost, but 20-25 is waaay overkill. Cooldown is not fun either. 3-5 hunger per trip with no cooldown is more reasonable, it being more of a flavor thing.

[Steorra]

14 minutes ago, shuishuihuohuo said:

If a teammate tries to open Woby, Woby will have to consume 20 - 25 points of hunger, and it won't accept Walter's delivery commands for some time afterwards.

I'm sorry, could you share more info about this issue? I have few chance to test in beta server in a multiplayer world which makes me feel confusing and being lack of knowledge of what you said here.

11 minutes ago, somethin said:

I agree that Woby do need a hunger cost, but 20-25 is waaay overkill. Cooldown is not fun either. 3-5 hunger per trip with no cooldown is more reasonable, it being more of a flavor thing.

for only the "flavor" talking - the Dashing of big Woby have a 3 hunger cost for a short-distance dash. I think only 5 hunger cost for a long-distance delivering is not fair.

But I would accept that to cost Woby's hunger by depending on the distance between her position to the destination, just similar like Wortox's map teleport.

[Catuna_]

I don't really agree with the idea of a hunger cost especially with how insight costly the perk is on a skill tree, A cooldown would be okay but I don't really see a need for this personally?

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

I don't really agree with the idea of a hunger cost especially with how insight costly the perk is on a skill tree,

eh... but it's fair I thought..? you know the skill of Woby's dashing have a hunger cost as well...

also have a hunger cost would makes the ability being more logical for flavor aspect.

the cooldown.. I think if it is 0.5 days or 0.4 days would be ok for me personally.

[shuishuihuohuo]

34 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I'm sorry, could you share more info about this issue? I have few chance to test in beta server in a multiplayer world which makes me feel confusing and being lack of knowledge of what you said here.

I apologize for the lack of clarity in my expression logic. I used a translation tool to communicate. In the recent update, only Walter can open Woby. Other characters can only open Woby through the "Woby Delivery" skill. Based on your suggestion, if other characters wish to open Woby when they are in the vicinity, Woby will have to consume 20 - 25 points of hunger and then enter a cooldown period.

[somethin]

36 minutes ago, Steorra said:

But I would accept that to cost Woby's hunger by depending on the distance between her position to the destination, just similar like Wortox's map teleport.

Honestly I suggest it since I want more excuse for feeding Woby more snacks Mass producing snacks is so easy and a stack can last you more than a season provided you're not shadow dashing everywhere I don't see an issue of her using up hunger, but definitely not 25.

[Catuna_]

Woby already loses hunger regardless of form passively just like players do, you don't lose more hunger from walking
I don't really see a reason for a cost, especially when the perk requires so much insight

[shuishuihuohuo]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

It could simply help you much for your inventory management - or, even you could say that the deliver skill of Woby could easily break the basic inventory management logic of the game. It's a far more powerful ability than Maxwell's Shadow hat & box.

Just imagine - when you go ruin rush by solo, the inventory management would be a tough mission for most characters, Even maxwell is no exception since his Shadow Hat has limited slots. But when you use Walter with the Woby's deliver ability, you could simply get 9 extra inventory slots per chest. Which means you could have almost no limit inventory slots in an early ruin rush. That makes you could easily rob all loots from the ruin into your home by Woby's help. 

In Klei's recent updates, the restrictions on item management have been relaxed. Some characters have boxes in their skill trees for storing exclusive items. Winona's teleportation station can transport items, and Wortox can store items back and forth as his teleportation cost is cheaper. Even Wilson can obtain a horn from the Rabbit King in exchange and get a temporary Magician's Hat when he goes to the ruins.
The delivery skill of Woby is more like a unique advantage of Walter. It adds a nomadic gameplay style to DST, encouraging exploration outside and the establishment of temporary bases. After scouting, players can transport supplies back home. This is different from the original intention of Maxwell's Magician's Hat. Currently, Maxwell's hat seems more like a compensation for low health. (You have to wear armor to guard against unexpected events, and the Magician's Hat compensates for the limited backpack space.)

[Danila6300]

I don't see the need to introduce additional costs for hunger. This skill already requires learning 3 more skills in the reconnaissance branch to unlock. 

[rain grass]

It is better to consume hunger points when delivering than to have a cooldown time

[Kacpert25]

I agree, the "Woby Here, Woby There" perk could have a cooldown (4 minutes for example) and a slight cost in the form of Woby's hunger (maybe 15, not 20).

[Chewabacca]

39 minutes ago, Kacpert25 said:

I agree, the "Woby Here, Woby There" perk could have a cooldown (4 minutes for example) and a slight cost in the form of Woby's hunger (maybe 15, not 20).

4 minutes is on the long side, that's half a day. And with Woby's hunger you always have to take into account that she slows down as her hunger decreases, so even a loss of 15 can hurt decently. 10 is the absolute maximum penalty that I could see swinging, and even that will probably drive some people away from using the skill.

[Kacpert25]

14 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

4 minutes is on the long side, that's half a day. And with Woby's hunger you always have to take into account that she slows down as her hunger decreases, so even a loss of 15 can hurt decently. 10 is the absolute maximum penalty that I could see swinging, and even that will probably drive some people away from using the skill.

Geez, I don't understand why people are so against that perk costs Woby's hunger. After all, Walter can create treats for Woby that restore more than half of her hunger. So I don't see a problem with making a stack of them or less to use the perk without any problems.

In turn, a cooldown of 4 minutes does not seem to be much. Possibility of freeing up space in 9 slots is strong, so it would be a good idea to have a slight limit.

[YouKnowWho142]

I personally do not think that there needs to be a cost for Woby's new skill. It fits in perfectly to Walter's utility and exploration by letting him focus on exploring and being able to clear his inventory without having to make return trips which would only waste his time. If they did add a cost to the skill, it really should be only a cooldown or only a hunger cost, but not both. Even then though, a cooldown would be useless at best and tedious at worst and a hunger cost both seems odd due to the hunger meter focusing more on big Woby and completely negligible due to how easy it is to refill Woby's hunger, once again only being tedious. I get the whole "dog running long distance thing", but she seems to do that just fine already when she's following you

[Chewabacca]

3 minutes ago, Kacpert25 said:

Geez, I don't understand why people are so against that perk costs Woby's hunger. After all, Walter can create treats for Woby that restore more than half of her hunger. So I don't see a problem with making a stack of them or less to use the perk without any problems.

In turn, a cooldown of 4 minutes does not seem to be much. Possibility of freeing up space in 9 slots is strong, so it would be a good idea to have a slight limit.

Walter can craft treats for her that restore more than half her hunger, yes, but only with another skill. It shouldn't be automatically taken for granted that he'll have that skill, since that just forces players to take that skill if every other skill runs on the assumption that they did. If you think that that skill restores too much hunger, it makes more sense to talk about adjusting that skill rather than adjusting other skills.

[Dr. Safety]

Nah, I said it on the other identical thread about this exact same topic, but I'll say it again here. Woby's hunger is for big Woby commands. Anything that only big Woby can do costs hunger. Small Woby can operate on no hunger at all, as well as the commands for small Woby. 

It's balanced as you need to spend a lot of points on perks that are overall underwhelming compared to the rest of the tree. It's a fair trade off I'd say.

[SilverSpoon]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Safety said:

Nah, I said it on the other identical thread about this exact same topic, but I'll say it again here. Woby's hunger is for big Woby commands. Anything that only big Woby can do costs hunger. Small Woby can operate on no hunger at all, as well as the commands for small Woby. 

It's balanced as you need to spend a lot of points on perks that are overall underwhelming compared to the rest of the tree. It's a fair trade off I'd say.

Even if you have to spend some skill points, there are still cases where it's too powerful, like Blessed Sisturn III was said to be.

I think skill that solves the problem of "bringing items home" for free seems too powerful even at skill tree point 4.

[Dyzrespect]

Gamers, please, let's recap here.
"Balance" benefits of hunger cost to WH,WT:

• Using WH,WT is more tedious.
• The 3 times you will likely use this skill early on now drain 1 Woby snack of hunger. 
• Small Woby now needs hunger for the first time, breaking her main mechanic of using hunger when she's big
• Am I missing something? What benefit is there besides some nebulous personal feeling of "balance", what satisfaction is added here?

"Balance" benefits of cooldown to WH,WT:

• You will never notice it unless you:
  • A. Are transporting a terrifyingly large amount of logs/rocks/etc back to base
    B. Your friend doesn't see Woby and misses the delivery
  • C. You send her to the wrong place on accident or she fails to deliver for some reason
• Personal nebulous feeling of "balance" achieved

Even if I turn my brain off and pretend this is League of Legends balance world, we have the Burrowing Horn, we have Shadow Chester, we have Rift Watches, Elastispacers, Wortox tps, Wormholes, Telelocators. WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

I can't believe I'm saying this but please, please go back to talking about Wendy.

[SilverSpoon]

53 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

Even if I turn my brain off and pretend this is League of Legends balance world, we have the Burrowing Horn, we have Shadow Chester, we have Rift Watches, Elastispacers, Wortox tps, Wormholes, Telelocators. WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE?

Each method has its own downside.

• The Burrowing Horn: Can only be used 3 times per one inventory slot, and has only 12 slots.
• Shadow Chester: Requires another player to use it as a transport, and requires you to have built a Magician's Chest as Maxwell or be playing as Maxwell.
• Rift Watches: Uses purple gems. Backtrek Watches also require 1 tusk per point, and are Wanda-only.
• Elastispacers: Couldn't use for transport. Post-Rift, expensive.
• Wormholes: Fixed points, ground-only, sanity drain.
• Telelocators: Uses 3 purple gems per use.
• Wortox: Uses up to 20 souls. And also, Walter who Survival+Shooter shouldn't have more transport power than Wortox who Teleporter+Healer.

In comparison, WHWT have too few downsides and seem excessive for a single character to have power.

To be honest, I also don't like to use QoL degradation as a downside. But Wendy who you mentioned, has also been rejected because "No effort" from the forums people for "AFK Gestabby", "Tanky Abigail" and "Morning Growly auto-farming" . So to allow it on another character would be a double standard.

53 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

I can't believe I'm saying this but please, please go back to talking about Wendy.

Wendy was repeatedly nerfed, as people on the forums wanted. That has become a fait accompli and now a thing of the past. Now just it's Walter's turn.