Suggestion following the recent beefalo changes: Grass gator taming :D

[mr. brj]

I haven't had the opportunity to play with the recent beta changes yet, but almost everyone I talk to seems pretty hyped about being able to feed beefalos while mounted to refresh their buck timers. Since this alone drastically reduces the biggest inconvenience of a hypothetical ocean mount, I say now is the perfect chance to introduce, or at least to consider introducing, grass gator taming into the game.

Not only would grass gator taming give a huge incentive to early ocean exploration, which in my opinion is the single remaining (big) issue regarding ocean content, it would also encourage a unique type of high-risk-high-reward playstyle for players bold enough to focus on this mechanic early in the game, while providing an additional mid to late-game layer to interacting with the ocean content for players that prefer a more stretched-out game plan.

I think it's also worth mentioning that tameable grass gators will never be able to overshadow boats. We have bootleg getaways for boat teleportation, we have sails for extremely fast sailing, we have bumpers for additional but cheap safety, we have winches to grab treasures, and most importantly, we have literal infinite inventory space on boats and the ability to place structures and heavy objects on them.

So please, consider adding grass gator taming into the game, it would be a very dearly appreciated mechanic.

[Cassielu]

Maybe not. I think boat still need more reasons to encourage people to use them more (just see how popular the empty boat strategy is), and offering a less specific option that bypasses all of the boat's difficulties will make most people abandon boats

And everything we currently have on the ocean is designed around boats, there need lot to rework to get them to properly interact with a player riding on a grass gator.

[mr. brj]

1 minute ago, Cassielu said:

I think boat still need more reasons to encourage people to use them more

I would argue that blaming boats is a fallacy here, the real problem is the lack of benefits the ocean provides during early game. Players don't go out sailing into the ocean immediately not because it's not fun, but rather because they are missing out on more beneficial and immediate types of fun. Tameable grass gators would be a potential and worthwhile benefit one way or another, and I don't see how they would hinder the current state or the overall potential of the boats. Like I said in the post, boats have their own viable upsides over a possible ocean mount. Having an additional means of interacting with the ocean won't hurt the current design of the ocean and would instead make it more appealing much earlier.

[aidancode]

If this does become a thing I would really hope that waterlogged biomes get their world Gen updated a bit since it's really annoying to sail all the way around the world only to find all three waterlogged biomes clumped up right next to each other. Make them consistently spread themselves apart please!!

[Walrusst]

22 minutes ago, mr. brj said:

I would argue that blaming boats is a fallacy here, the real problem is the lack of benefits the ocean provides during early game. Players don't go out sailing into the ocean immediately not because it's not fun, but rather because they are missing out on more beneficial and immediate types of fun. Tameable grass gators would be a potential and worthwhile benefit one way or another, and I don't see how they would hinder the current state or the overall potential of the boats. Like I said in the post, boats have their own viable upsides over a possible ocean mount. Having an additional means of interacting with the ocean won't hurt the current design of the ocean and would instead make it more appealing much earlier.

I mean sprouting rockfruit, the pinch and winch, banan bushes, monkey tails, and kelp are pretty good reasons to go on the ocean its more that you can identify half the ocean objectives from land (With the funny lunar detector things) so having hit the ruins greatly reduces the guesswork of going out to sea as you can just triangulate the places you need to go to after that and not have to circumnavigate the map.

If I go on a server as woodie goose around and find stuff like moon quay/lunar/crabby isle people cheer, finding figs means we can start prepping a bigger then average tree for summer to make life a lot easier.

A wortox hitting boats the moment he finds the panflute is perfectly fine for a team server because in the end everyone else can do the basing+whatever boss prep that group wants to run while wortox runs the absurdly strong gauntlet of agricultural items that come from that watery place.

Its really a matter of because its time consuming, and you can cut out the guess work, people trying to minmax hard in solo worlds just cut out the guess work.

[mr. brj]

1 minute ago, aidancode said:

If this does become a thing I would really hope that waterlogged biomes get their world Gen updated a bit since it's really annoying to sail all the way around the world only to find all three waterlogged biomes clumped up right next to each other. Make them consistently spread themselves apart please!!

Agreed, I would even take this a step further and say that ocean needs more consistency in the way it generates setpieces/biomes. Nothing outright obvious of course, but at least some patterns that hint towards certain possibilities nearby.

[Well-met]

yes pls

koalefant aswell

[aidancode]

5 minutes ago, Well-met said:

yes pls

koalefant aswell

what would a koala's value be that you don't just get from a beefalo?

[mr. brj]

1 minute ago, Walrusst said:

I mean sprouting rockfruit, the pinch and winch, banan bushes, and kelp are pretty good reasons to go on the ocean its more that you can identify half the ocean objectives from land so prior to you having hit the ruins it greatly reduces the guesswork of going out to sea when you can just triangulate the places you need to go to after that  and not have to circumnavigate the map.

If I go on a server as woodie goose around and find stuff like moon quay/lunar/crabby isle people cheer, finding figs means we can start prepping a bigger then average tree for summer to make life a lot easier.

A wortox hitting boats the moment he finds the panflute is perfectly fine for a team server because in the end everyone else can do the basing+whatever boss prep that group wants to run while wortox runs the absurdly strong gauntlet of agricultural items that come from that watery place.

Its really a matter of because its time consuming, and you can cut out the guess work, people trying to minmax hard in solo worlds just cut out the guess work.

Exactly like you said. With less players, the ocean exploration becomes exponentially more time consuming and I say it would certainly be welcome to have other options in that case.

Also an addition to Woodie exploration from personal experience: in pubs with lots of players, once I identify where every important ocean location is as the goose, I find myself returning back to what I would otherwise do as any other character. So even in this case, I'm basically delaying my usual fun by a couple of days for the sake of providing the locations of these points of interest to the team along with some banana bushes/monkey tails, which is actually fine. But I am also left with no further incentive to interact with the ocean content until we decide to fight CC, and so is the rest of the team. I think mountable grass gators would at least be a unique way for non Woodie players to have an additional reason to visit one of those already explored locations.

[Walrusst]

Its a strange situation because hypothetically fishing is such an incredible perk because foods like surf and turf do everything, but the more stringent pure ocean items have a few uniting factors to them.
 

• Being lag unfriendly (Sails, or the fishing minigame in general.)
• Being one and done (Wew salt box.)
• Being time consuming (Fish.)
• Being very under-tuned (Ocean based armors like the cookie cutter hat.)
• Unlocking at similar times to some end boss content (You are almost ready to fight crab king when you unlock the last bits of fishing stuff.)
• Being obsoleted by items which are gotten by going to the ocean once and never coming back. (A lot of the things you might want fish for can also use banana.)

[Well-met]

39 minutes ago, aidancode said:

what would a koala's value be that you don't just get from a beefalo?

klei could make it so their attack is much slower but much stronger, and perhaps a charge ability at the cost of having no tendencies.

Winter koalefant could emit a little bit of heat while regular koalefant could provide ewecus snot periodically.

and of course they could have much higher taming requirements so its not as easy as a beefalo.

There's a ton of potential you just need to be more imaginative.

[somethin]

1 hour ago, aidancode said:

what would a koala's value be that you don't just get from a beefalo?

They're cuter. Isn't that enough reason?

[Lardee]

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the real reason they allowed beefalo to be fed while mounted.

[Guille6785]

ewecus taming when

[Walrusst]

I mean now that I think about it a lot of enemies that used to target your boat exclusively now can damage you. Like in the old days with how crab king was set up there was really no way to have this work but this idea is a lot more viable then I did originally assume it was.

Since go back a few years it would be almost like being the goose on the water, almost non-interactive, but hey something to fight on that doesn't sprout leaks doesn't sound bad even if it  means needing to treat cannon wounds on my new friend.

I was thinking about old DST for a bit when I first looked at this, but in hindsight hey it could be awesome.
Only concern being how would the pirates handle something they can't board?

[Jakepeng99]

I feel like as a challenge, they would only eat live fish. (You can attack and eat fish that swim on the ocean to eat them)

[mr. brj]

3 hours ago, Walrusst said:

Only concern being how would the pirates handle something they can't board?

Well, pirates only raid sailing players, but I also wouldn't mind if they started shooting their cannons at me while I was riding my mount on the sea. I think the possibility of not being attentive enough and getting bucked off into the ocean is a challenge on its own though. As for other enemies, perhaps a special case could be made for rockjaws and maaaaybe malbatross, such that they will be able to see the player riding a grass gator as a target.

[Thieta]

They definitely need to focus on the ocean a lot more - I'm still awaiting the maw update nexus event (It has to happen) with how the ocean is now it just kinda exists, They need to really add in major incentive to get good items from the ocean that you can only get from there - Like ruins rushing, Ocean needs a genuine incentive aside from crab king - I don't count moon island since it's a major land mass... Oceans need to get the shadow/lunar treatment and change along with the game - There needs to be an actual CONSTANT incentive to explore the ocean - Not go in and get salt, giant tree seed, a couple chests for the new gem trees, Then never touch the ocean again... There should be strong items that you can only get from the ocean and need to refuel (get them again) constantly - (Constantly is if you decide to really use these items) There should be massive underwater whales for us to quite literally go whaling (Mini-boss essentially) - Fire a harpoon into it and it drags the boat around, Trying to sink it by ramming it into things, kill it and it's corpse floats up and can be mined/cut/hammered for loot - There's so much that they can add without even overpopulating the above water with objects - Coral reefs! Kelp forests! etc

Ocean needs to be more dangerous and have new mechanics/bosses - Maw when? - Where are the lunar and shadow creatures in the ocean? If they aren't gonna be present then we need more maw themed stuff - I thought for years that we would get a kraken boss due to the lampsquids and the quote of "Those are only the babies" why haven't we gotten that yet?

Being able to tame more of the bigger creatures would be interesting for new mechanics to the game. Grass gator can offer a faster/safer ocean exploration

It can move as fast as a single malbatross sail or double normal sails. It can hold one item; Salt formation, Treasure chest, Etc. Then when you dismount it on land it throws said item onto the land - Salt formations would break giving you the salt, Chest you can open like normal - This makes it a boat alternative for early game but it has major inconvenience (If you want to get multiple things on the water it's best to use a boat) since you gotta go back to land to get the item.

Koalefants should be tamed but it can be a "passive" tame - You can ride them but their attack speed is very slow and they will do majorly less dmg than a beefalo, Riding is mainly just relocation. A tamed Koalefant will provide a new "Massive Manure" that can be picked up for 4-5 manure or a new manure item, They only produce this if you give them a food item worth 30food or smth (Steamed twigs work too)

Koalefants can have a second mechanic - They can be fed water or put near the ocean/pond (Craftable ponds when?) - Which will have them store the water in their trunks - If a fire starts nearby they will use their water to spray it out (This can be either highly inefficient or it can be an efficient alternative to the ice throwers) but the main reason they store water in their trunks (They won't do this in winter) is to water down the player if they begin to overheat. I think these two mechanics would make taming a koalefant an optional, but enticing, thing to do - It cannot overshadow or be another "Beefalo" each tame needs to have their own unique things - 5 ridable tames that are all battle focused... basically those are just skins for the same thing.

I made a post before on hound taming and etc - There really needs to be an incentive to live together with the creatures of the constant, Especially now that the story has become more of a... pick your side in this war kind of thing - Having more incentive to be shadow/lunar aligned (Being able to recruit/tame things like hounds if you are shadow aligned) would make the game very interesting and greatly diversify playstyles and builds. Players have done their own ways of keeping things like koalefants around in pens for manure + cuteness.

[kikia]

6 hours ago, Walrusst said:

Only concern being how would the pirates handle something they can't board?

Pirates: I will kill myself in front of you.

[Debruh]

I feel like if this was implemented, people would be like

"Wow thanks Klei!/s! Now I will be able to cross the ocean easier, after already exploring all of it to find gators and tame them! Amazing!.. wow you guys really don't play your own game, huh? ."

I like it though.

[Well-met]

11 minutes ago, Debruh said:

I feel like if this was implemented, people would be like

"Wow thanks Klei!/s! Now I will be able to cross the ocean easier, after already exploring all of it to find gators and tame them! Amazing!.. wow you guys really don't play your own game, huh? ."

no?

A domesticated grass gator would act as a form of player-boat from SW, which is something that was always extremely in high demand since the very first day of RoT.

Literally nobody would complain about this.

 

[Debruh]

Just now, Well-met said:

no?

A domesticated grass gator would act as a form of player-boat from SW, which is something that was always extremely in high demand.

Literally nobody would complain about this.

 

Dude, I didn't make that argument up. I saw it before in a comment section, where people were complaining that this wouldn't be good enough. Cause you're still gonna have to sail in the first place to find gators. They already complained about this lmao

[mr. brj]

10 hours ago, Thieta said:

They need to really add in major incentive to get good items from the ocean that you can only get from there

To be perfectly fair, I think the ocean does have good reasons to visit, although those reasons are way more concentrated on the lunar island. The problem I would say is that ocean content doesn't reward early visits as much as the mainland or the caves do (and to some extent, it does punish). As long as we have those two alternatives, I'm not really sure if a ruins equivalent on the ocean would solve that issue. It would certainly be welcome though, just not as significant as it would appear on paper.

My opinion has always been that the lack of easier access to basic resources is a huge contributor to the problems regarding the ocean, especially grass. After the addition of the beefalo bell, I added the extreme costliness of the taming process while sailing to my own list (which might not apply to all play styles but I think we can at least agree on the fact that beefalo taming is very advantageous if done early). It's a matter of opportunity cost either way, why invest time for sailing when you can achieve something similar elsewhere with much less investment?

Now, I don't know how willing the developer team would be to add a reliable source of cut grass into the ocean, since that does somewhat conflict with the overall idea of sailing in the Constant. I wouldn't complain about it of course. But I am positive that grass gator taming would introduce a solid but niche reason and/or reward for an early ocean visit by introducing a highly valuable mechanic with an appropriate cost.

[Soul7k]

having a wider mount variety would be sick. different types per animal would be cool, but I would settle for a base koalephant, ewecus, and grass gator. Husbandry is one of my favorite things in survival games.

[mr. brj]

20 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Dude, I didn't make that argument up. I saw it before in a comment section, where people were complaining that this wouldn't be good enough. Cause you're still gonna have to sail in the first place to find gators. They already complained about this lmao

Not untrue, but there is another way to look at this situation. Let's assume that you decided to sail early for any given reason, and you came across grass gators, would you really skip taming one? And if you didn't come across one, did you really lose anything? You were going to sail anyways, so no.

And since grass gators dont go into heat like the beefalo do, you would still have all the time in the world to look for one whenever you feel like it. You wouldn't be at any disadvantages for starting the taming process significantly later than you would otherwise do for the beefalo, in fact that would be a huge advantage given your priorities.

Even those two scenarios aside, if you chose to interact primarily with the ocean, you would inevitably be rewarded with a tameable grass gator. The only disadvantage you would be facing with this mechanic is that if your one and only goal is to tame a grass gator as soon as possible, and assuming that this will not be your only goal while playing a world, setting grass gator taming as your main objective would simply be bad overall planning.

I think complaining about not being able to find grass gators would be pointless given all these circumstances, since beefalo taming exists and sailing also exists.