How I’d improve the ammo pouch

[Balter]

Since my whole suggestion of nerfing certain craftable ammo types is off the table I think one way to make Walter’s ammo pouch more favorable and distinct compared to Wigfrid’s storage system would be turning the ammo pouch formally into a body upgrade with no penalty to body or head slots.

 

Simple put Walter will get 6 more storage units on his body for ammo similarly to how Wilson gets 3 more storage units for food. Also Walters with this upgrade will visually have the ammo pouches slung on them, like a bandolier. The ammo pouch will drop on death.

[gaymime]

doesnt wilson's extra slots come at the cost of forcing his baseline temp up? seems a bit weird to give walter even more slots for no cost when he already has woby's slots at no cost and wilson has to trade body temp for slots

[Balter]

1 minute ago, gaymime said:

doesnt wilson's extra slots come at the cost of forcing his baseline temp up? seems a bit weird to give walter even more slots for no cost when he already has woby's slots at no cost and wilson has to trade body temp for slots

My guy, Wilson gets his upgrade for free after waiting a certain time but with Walter he has to craft the whole ammo pouch thing and it doesn’t come cheap you know.

[Arcwell]

5 minutes ago, gaymime said:

doesnt wilson's extra slots come at the cost of forcing his baseline temp up?

Insulation does not increase your temperature. It just means whenever your temperature drops, it does so more slowly.

[gaymime]

1 hour ago, Balter said:

My guy, Wilson gets his upgrade for free after waiting a certain time but with Walter he has to craft the whole ammo pouch thing and it doesn’t come cheap you know.

um, the beard raises wilson's temp. _that_ is the cost. from end of sprint to beginning of autumn he is at a greater risk than others to overheating. it is not free. it might not be a cost you recognise as a problem for yourself but that does not mean there is no cost.

1 hour ago, Arcwell said:

Insulation does not increase your temperature. It just means whenever your temperature drops, it does so more slowly.

then they changed dst to no longer have him overheat more easily from his beard being grown out in summer like he did in solo?

also it speeds your body temp raising to meet ambient temp. if it is say, summer, you will overheat faster and more easily than if you have nothing at all.

 

this post is super void!

[Arcwell]

7 minutes ago, gaymime said:

then they changed dst to no longer have him overheat more easily from his beard being grown out in summer like he did in solo?

Honestly couldn't tell you if it was a thing in DS or not, it's been ages since I've played it. But it has always been like this in DST.

[gaymime]

5 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Honestly couldn't tell you if it was a thing in DS or not, it's been ages since I've played it. But it has always been like this in DST.

it is in ds and i checked the wiki, it says in dst it does stymie his ability to cool down on his character page and on the ambient temp page it does say that insulating speeds the rate of heating and overheating when the ambient temp changes which technically is different but in practice has the same effect(that is to say he overheats faster and easier in hot weather)

[Balter]

Aight dude, if you wanna go that route sure. How often have you played Wilson? Cuz I can tell you from personal experience that the beard insulation is more useful than problematic for me. I never overheated throughout the first 3 seasons (it’s almost it was ment to be a perk rather than a hindrance)

[Walrusst]

It is a bit weird how many clicks it takes to use. Fast (Efficient) ammo crafting + raw materials is almost more efficient except for gunpowder rounds since the animations for opening and closing that box are kinda obnoxious plus the time you need to spend transferring rounds.

A stack of moon glass is 1200 rounds with fast ammo crafting, the ammo pouch holds 720.
So this only really makes a difference if you are hording thulecite ammo or you want to transport industrial levels of gunpowder/shock ammo.

So the pouch sort of needs to be convenient to be useful.

[gaymime]

9 minutes ago, Balter said:

Aight dude, if you wanna go that route sure. How often have you played Wilson? Cuz I can tell you from personal experience that the beard insulation is more useful than problematic for me. I never overheated throughout the first 3 seasons (it’s almost it was ment to be a perk rather than a hindrance)

something like 90ish hours in ds and i play with three different wilson mainers in dst so not a lot but enough to have the general idea. that being said i specifically said;

25 minutes ago, gaymime said:

it might not be a cost you recognise as a problem for yourself but that does not mean there is no cost.

good on you for not struggling but that doesnt mean there is no cost. i only go into insanity on purpose and dont struggle with it at all unless i am carrying others despite maining a character who has a cap of 75. if we used my experience with sanity as a baseline for if sanity is something people struggle with then we are going to be in a position where sanity isnt a problem in the game. personal bias is just that personal and a bias.

 

tldr? i think woby is plenty as far as extra slots go so an ammo pouch is already really good enough without also needing to be 100% free

[Chewabacca]

27 minutes ago, Balter said:

My guy, Wilson gets his upgrade for free after waiting a certain time but with Walter he has to craft the whole ammo pouch thing and it doesn’t come cheap you know.

The pouch does kind of come cheap IMO. Yeah it costs 4 pig skin but what else are you going to be spending it on? A hambat for the ranged character? Football helmets? Sure they're useful but because Walter's playstyle encourages you to be very careful to not get hit you're not going to be running through a bunch of them all that quickly.

[Arcwell]

26 minutes ago, gaymime said:

also it speeds your body temp raising to meet ambient temp. if it is say, summer, you will overheat faster and more easily than if you have nothing at all.

This is false. Temperature in DST does not change faster than 1 degree per second (outside of some special effects like Klaus).

overheat warning with beard, roughly 40 seconds:

overheat warning with no beard, roughly 40 seconds:

[Guille6785]

44 minutes ago, gaymime said:

doesnt wilson's extra slots come at the cost of forcing his baseline temp up?

no

34 minutes ago, gaymime said:

then they changed dst to no longer have him overheat more easily from his beard being grown out in summer like he did in solo?

this was never a thing in DS

[gaymime]

13 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

This is false. Temperature in DST does not change faster than 1 degree per second in DST (outside of some special effects like Klaus).

overheat warning with beard, roughly 40 seconds:

 

overheat warning with no beard, roughly 40 seconds:

 

even by your own video measure wilson starts his overheating animation at 38 seconds and wicker starts her at 40 and that is just at his teir two not his full length which has a 90 point insulation difference

5 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

no

this was never a thing in DS

can you please show me? the wiki stands by my personal experience of the game but i would gladly rescind my statement if it could be proven otherwise and while you and i don't agree on much i at least trust that if you stand by that statement you of all people would be able to prove it

[aidankocherhans]

18 minutes ago, gaymime said:

even by your own video measure wilson starts his overheating animation at 38 seconds and wicker starts her at 40 and that is just at his teir two not his full length which has a 90 point insulation difference

can you please show me? the wiki stands by my personal experience of the game but i would gladly rescind my statement if it could be proven otherwise and while you and i don't agree on much i at least trust that if you stand by that statement you of all people would be able to prove it

The beard acts as negative insulation. It doesn't change how fast you gain heat compared to another character without insulation, but if you put an insulating item on it will be negated by the beard unless you get a higher value. Certain things like the luxury fan are made worse by having negative insulation, but relying on a thermal stone essentially bypasses the issue.

[Arcwell]

3 minutes ago, gaymime said:

even by your own video measure wilson starts his overheating animation at 38 seconds and wicker starts her at 40 and that is just at his teir two not his full length which has a 90 point insulation difference

I have not known you to be a troll so I'm going to humor that argument in case you are being genuine.
Here is an exact measurement with a full beard:

The command prints the player's temperature and the current system time every 0.5 seconds. I started at exactly 25 degrees, and the first print happened 0.5 seconds after the pause, so starting time is 32.366. At 72.366 (exactly 40 seconds later), I hit 65 degrees and the overheat warning appears. That is exactly 1 degree per second, same as without a beard.

Here is the command if you want to try it yourself:
ThePlayer:DoPeriodicTask(0.5, function(inst) c_announce("Temperature: " .. ThePlayer.components.temperature.current .. "\nTime: " .. GetTime()) end)

To be clear: I have absolutely no interest in the idea proposed by the OP. I just don't want you to spread misinformation.

[gaymime]

14 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

I have not known you to be a troll so I'm going to humor that argument in case you are being genuine.
Here is an exact measurement with a full beard:

 

The command prints the player's temperature and the current system time every 0.5 seconds. I started at exactly 25 degrees, and the first print happened 0.5 seconds after the pause, so starting time is 32.366. At 72.366 (exactly 40 seconds later), I hit 65 degrees and the overheat warning appears. That is exactly 1 degree per second, same as without a beard.

Here is the command if you want to try it yourself:
ThePlayer:DoPeriodicTask(0.5, function(inst) c_announce("Temperature: " .. ThePlayer.components.temperature.current .. "\nTime: " .. GetTime()) end)

To be clear: I have absolutely no interest in the idea proposed by the OP. I just don't want you to spread misinformation.

thankyou, this does actually make it more clear especially since i was able to try it myself alongside the video. i appreciate your willingness to give me the benefit of the doubt. i rescind my claim of there being increased overheating and will chalk it up to user error

still going to hold to my sentiment that with woby and pouch there is more than enough carrying space for day-to-day play but i am gonna shut my yap on wilson's beard XD

[Radicaljoe]

Are people thinking about how the beard negates summer insulation? Is that where people are mixing up the faster heat up in summer thing?

[YouKnowWho142]

1 hour ago, Balter said:

My guy, Wilson gets his upgrade for free after waiting a certain time but with Walter he has to craft the whole ammo pouch thing and it doesn’t come cheap you know.

i mean, the ammo pouch isn't really that expensive

i think if there's any argument for the ammo pouch it'd be increasing the number of slots a bit. Wendy's basket has 8 slots despite the fact that she only has 8 elixirs (technically 9, but you cant run both affinity elixirs anyway). Even then, an ammo pouch increase isn't too vital and still feels fine as long as you're not literally bringing all your ammo everywhere all the time. Gaining free inventory slots dedicated to ammo doesn't make a lot of sense since free slots are provided by a few of the slingshot upgrades as well (It's not the same but it's a similar idea)

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

Even then, an ammo pouch increase isn't too vital and still feels fine as long as you're not literally bringing all your ammo everywhere all the time. Gaining free inventory slots dedicated to ammo doesn't make a lot of sense since free slots are provided by a few of the slingshot upgrades as well (It's not the same but it's a similar idea)

I would say the main thing is if you aren't bringing all your ammo variants with you then you just aren't using them I'll again admit I probably don't represent the majority on this area in particular but I like to bring slowdown, freeze, poop, icker, pure horror horror, and moon glass rounds with me at all times because they're utility based rounds useful for different situations as well as thulecite rounds for my primary dps while you don't need to bring all these rounds with you at all times odds are .you aren't goin back home to get them for a specific job then putting them back either. That being said I don't particularly see the need for what's being suggested in this post I wouldn't be against it either but I think it's fine as is.

[Walrusst]

10 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

i mean, the ammo pouch isn't really that expensive

i think if there's any argument for the ammo pouch it'd be increasing the number of slots a bit. Wendy's basket has 8 slots despite the fact that she only has 8 elixirs (technically 9, but you cant run both affinity elixirs anyway). Even then, an ammo pouch increase isn't too vital and still feels fine as long as you're not literally bringing all your ammo everywhere all the time. Gaining free inventory slots dedicated to ammo doesn't make a lot of sense since free slots are provided by a few of the slingshot upgrades as well (It's not the same but it's a similar idea)

Plus a stack of mats with the efficient fast ammo crafting is the same effect more or less but with higher capacity with all but four ammo types (Shock/stinger/boom/tentacles. Which instead give 600/400 ammo per slot instead of the normal 1200 with good ammo crafting)

Like, the going through an extra menu feels like such a waste of time to retrieve ammo.

[YouKnowWho142]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

I would say the main thing is if you aren't bringing all your ammo variants with you then you just aren't using them I'll again admit I probably don't represent the majority on this area in particular but I like to bring slowdown, freeze, poop, icker, pure horror horror, and moon glass rounds with me at all times because they're utility based rounds useful for different situations as well as thulecite rounds for my primary dps while you don't need to bring all these rounds with you at all times odds are .you aren't goin back home to get them for a specific job then putting them back either. That being said I don't particularly see the need for what's being suggested in this post I wouldn't be against it either but I think it's fine as is.

Even in that scenario, you're not necessarily limited to one ammo pouch either, as far as I'm aware. I get what you're saying though, I wouldn't be opposed to an ammo pouch increase especially since Walter's skills are so competitive and some people skip ammo pouch since Woby can carry ammo

[Catuna_]

57 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

This is false. Temperature in DST does not change faster than 1 degree per second (outside of some special effects like Klaus).

overheat warning with beard, roughly 40 seconds:

 

overheat warning with no beard, roughly 40 seconds:

 

unrelated to the post, but are the two numbers in insulation with the command you used for winter and summer respectively?

[Mysterious box]

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

Even in that scenario, you're not necessarily limited to one ammo pouch either, as far as I'm aware. I get what you're saying though, I wouldn't be opposed to an ammo pouch increase especially since Walter's skills are so competitive and some people skip ammo pouch since Woby can carry ammo

I agree as I said I'm fine with the ammo pouch as is I'm just saying why at the bare minimum the current ammo pouch was needed. I feel like 6 slots is ideal enough for most everyone though as odds are most people won't be using more than 6 of his different types since things like his base damage rounds below cursed or his gunpowder and shockscrap are just lesser versions of his best dps ammo type. It does have fierce competition though.

[mkemal23]

1 hour ago, Balter said:

My guy, Wilson gets his upgrade for free after waiting a certain time but with Walter he has to craft the whole ammo pouch thing and it doesn’t come cheap you know.

Wilson, -With three beard growth skills + Beard storage skill- gets his beard storage after 10 days which is more than enough time to get 2 gold 6 silk 4 pig skin. Not only that, Walters container gives you 6 slots of ammo storage for a single point skill. Which is not the best, but still way better than Wilson's 3 slot beard storage.

I don't even know how you can give Wilson's beard storage as a example to ask for a Walter container buff. Especially when Battle Call Canister and Picnic Cascet (Wendy and Wigfrid's containers) exists.