Walter Players I'm Gunna Let You Finish, BUT KLEI PLEASE DO MORE WITH WORTOX!!

[Y0sH]

Along with the Walter update we got the upgraded bugnet that was mentioned to be needed before the Knabsack got the lookover it needed here: 

Arguably the Knabsack icon inside of the inventory can just have like a glowing frame indicating full damage and maybe a glowing sack visual in game and that's that. The Knabsack having a bugnet utility is personally thee smallest issue that's related to Wortox. The Skilltree has more glaring issues that have been discussed to DEATH over and over and seemingly nothing has been mentioned about Wortox or his pain points. 

Here is my original Megathread: 

Here's a Megathread of Megathreads: 

If you'd read through these you'll soon see that literally everything being asked for has been more or less consistent with each other this entire time. The small tweaks being asked for aren't ground breaking and only polish on what's already in the Skiltree. Watching the other 2 characters more or less getting exactly what they need based on the community feels terrible in comparison when it comes to Wortox.

Adding a Bugnet ability to an already lackluster weapon seems almost insulting when we have teleporting/sprinting Woby and a slew of Wendy crafts and effects. Please consider giving Wortox a final revision before release because seemingly the only people that seem to think Wortox's Skilltree is in a "done" state are the Devs. With the amazing Walter changes and the lack of Wortox even being mentioned again, it seems even more apparent that Wortox's feedback hasn't been considered in months.

TLDR: TAKE WORTOX OFF THE BACKBURNER, HE STILL NEEDS WORK. 

and nobody cares about a bugnet compared to everything else that needs attention.

[Echsrick]

please, PLEASE, ANYTHING GOOD, has anything of his skill tree ACTUALY BEEN CHANGED IN ANY WAYS that was any good? i know my feedback of new nice and naughty idle animations kind of mate it in, but its just that, an idle animation, its not realy anything mechanicaly of it, and lets not forget....IT WAS NOT EVEN MENTIONED in any update notes AT ALL! and neutral skills workin for locks is a niche but like...i realy cant remember anything else besides these 2

[Y0sH]

I don't think anything other than that and the heavy item teleport.

[Baark0]

I'd be open to changing a lot of the "soul range/soul travel speed" skills into something more interesting, since a lot of Wortox's skills feel like requirements to get the actual cool skills, when ideally each skill would be interesting and at least worth consideration.

Tbh its mostly reaching souls 2, soul bastion 2, soul thief 1 and 2, and soul decoy 2 that could really use some changes, as much as id like for the affinities to do something before rifts, or for a more multiplayer friendly skill in place of cloudy carmen. Maybe I'm just comparing Wortox's skill tree too much to Walter's, but I feel like there are more interesting things you can do here than more healing range for 2 skills.

[asdsaax]

Tbh I think it's unlikely for Klei to abandon Wortox when Knabsack and affinities have so many complaints

I would at least expect all above, vfx for refreshed affinities and soul jar map icon as bare minimum

+Bugnet knabsack got smacked down by the thulecite one, so they have room for improvement

[Hollow soul 3]

1 hour ago, asdsaax said:

Tbh I think it's unlikely for Klei to abandon Wortox when Knabsack and affinities have so many complaints

I would at least expect all above, vfx for refreshed affinities and soul jar map icon as bare minimum

+Bugnet knabsack got smacked down by the thulecite one, so they have room for improvement

pretty sure they're looking to ship it as is. 

 

[Crimson Hollow]

11 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

pretty sure they're looking to ship it as is. 

 

But with so many filler skills?

[ApoIIo]

I honestly do feel that most of Wortox's skill tree is EXTREMELY filler, just because they improve the skills that they come before doesn't change the fact that there are like, a handful of perks to choose from compared to walter or wendy's trees.

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, asdsaax said:

soul jar map icon

Beware of grieving...

18 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

pretty sure they're looking to ship it as is. 

 

If their words "three characters work in parallel" is true then there's much potential improvement could be expected. I want Wortox got the love which should belong to them...

[erick was right]

I wish knabsack was reworked and Wortox could infuse ANY weapon/tool with his souls making them unique in their own way.

[asdsaax]

1 hour ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

pretty sure they're looking to ship it as is. 

They are in process of shipping new knabsack visuals, so it's fair to assume they have time to consider our perspective and critiques while they work on Wortox

and well... according to my polls, people are rather unhappy with affinities and knabsack (especially covetous collector)
so it's important to stay opinionated, constructive and hope for the best

[OMEGASCRUFF]

[Peasant]

I'm kinda confused by the title...People think "Walter players" had been preventing Wortox getting more attention now?

[Hollow soul 3]

37 minutes ago, YXukun said:

I'm kinda confused by the title...People think "Walter players" had been preventing Wortox getting more attention now?

I think it was more of a way to have the post stand out with a joke. It's referencing a pop culture moment. Unfortunately YOsH, wortox does not have one of the best skill trees of all time.

[Y0sH]

1 hour ago, YXukun said:

I'm kinda confused by the title...People think "Walter players" had been preventing Wortox getting more attention now?

No.. Google Kanye telling Taylor Swift "I'm gunna let you finish but.."

it's a joke as in you have reason to celebrate and should but there's other things that needs attention too.

1 hour ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

I think it was more of a way to have the post stand out with a joke. It's referencing a pop culture moment. Unfortunately YOsH, wortox does not have one of the best skill trees of all time.

Lol I'm glad someone got it. I think Wortox has one of the best designed trees as far as Inclinations and the scale look (even though it's not interactive based on inclination).

However after months of literally exclusively playing Beta Wortox most of his kit is filler skills and it's more and more apparent as time goes on. Those "builds" that the Devs are so proud about are centered around the same skills. Furthermore, it's like the Devs are LASER FOCUSED on making the Knabsack a Bugnet when actual entire skills need to be changed/condensed. 

[Hollow soul 3]

I think the knabsack is pretty lame in it's entirety.

After spending time with krampus, wortox learned how to make one of their bags. Cool, but we already pick up their bags and that's not it. It looks pretty lame, getting access to lots of souls loses a lot when you're supposed to just hold onto 100 of them. Because that's what we wanted, we love looking at the souls pile up in our inventory, and being told not to use them. With so many conditions it should be op like wandas weapon, but it's damage and range is comparable to an item that just asks for a little sanity. Don't forget that you have to quest for the bottles to make it even hit that damage. And if you want that soul jar, it's required!

Tldr. continuity breaking, ugly, resource intense (who cares about the silk, you're making a spear. I'm talking about the 100 souls and the full inventory to turn the spear into a dark sword), low damage garbo that you absolutely have to take. 

[Y0sH]

11 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

With so many conditions it should be op like wandas weapon, but it's damage and range is comparable to an item that just asks for a little sanity. Don't forget that you have to quest for the bottles to make it even hit that damage. And if you want that soul jar, it's required!

Yeah this is very on the nose. Wanda has been my primary main for a while because Wortox just felt so generic in comparison. Wanda only requires a Shadow Manip, fuel, some marble and time pieces (you literally start with enough for the alarming clock). From that moment maybe day 4ish you'll have a weapon that will last you your entire playthrough and it's repairable with double range and increasable damage.

Wortox's Knabsack requires multiple skill points for full damage potential. Atleast 3 Jars for the best case scenario being: 2 full jars (80 souls) and a third one at atleast half capacity (100 souls) and a cluttered inventory JUST for darksword damage. On top of that it even breaks. Even worse they took away Planar damage from it, making it not even feasible as a weapon that can be used post cave rifts. It's like the weapon is horrible and the only way it was decent was taken away and as a consolation prize they give it a stupid Bugnet function that was only mentioned initially as SOMETHING that could make it viable and the Devs took it and ran with it.

[Hollow soul 3]

I've never seen it break when Krampus uses it, bug report?

I suggested the bug net functionality because at least that has some use to wortox. Picking up stuff quickly is handy enough too in some situations, but man. I would get kicked off the forums for excessive vulgarity if I wanted to fully express my opinions on the grabber alone, and that's not even the worst part of his tree.

[Koomin]

It is pretty entertaining that a bunch of people were asking for Wortox to get any change at all, and then instead beefalo, which are straight up useless for Wortox, got the big change as the dark horse 4th character in the beta.  

[Hollow soul 3]

11 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It is pretty entertaining that a bunch of people were asking for Wortox to get any change at all, and then instead beefalo, which are straight up useless for Wortox, got the big change as the dark horse 4th character in the beta.  

Probably because we didn't complain enough. Should have taken notes from the Wendy mains. Looks like that's the only thing they respond to.

[Mysterious box]

12 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It is pretty entertaining that a bunch of people were asking for Wortox to get any change at all, and then instead beefalo, which are straight up useless for Wortox, got the big change as the dark horse 4th character in the beta.  

Shame on you...you forgot Wonkey who also got stealth buffed.

[Debruh]

You forgot to thank Beyoncé

[IAmAFurrz]

On 2/9/2025 at 11:02 AM, Echsrick said:

neutral skills workin for locks is a niche

its not niche actually lol its very useful

10 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Probably because we didn't complain enough. Should have taken notes from the Wendy mains. Looks like that's the only thing they respond to.

harassment is only true when its them /j that aside, i truly wonder if they will touch on skills like soul decoy 2 or soul bastion 2, genuinely have never seen anyone like those lmao

[ApoIIo]

14 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Probably because we didn't complain enough. Should have taken notes from the Wendy mains. Looks like that's the only thing they respond to.

Pfft, time to send death threats. Just kidding. I'm sure they'll give him a bit more polish. Or at least I'd rather believe that.
I was more content with the skill tree, but I gave it some more playtime to produce the following opinions:

I'm still very underwhelmed by soul pierce personally. Most of the time it does nothing. It is good for precisely two bosses, and also is satisfying to watch when mass-killing things, but it is otherwise not something to be missed much. You have two other very viable aoe sources so that aspect of it is almost purely "satisfying". It also needs 4 points to be useful for that purpose instead of decoy's 3 so it's pretty much dead for nice wortox builds. Not that it's missed as nice wortox. I'm only picking it because my only other option is panflute which is mostly good early on and meh down the line.
Decoy is cool, I wish the skill to buff its damage wasn't terrible/It had a bit more damage though.
Jar's essential so no complaints there. Such a small thing is worth pretty much the rest of the skill tree combined, but I feel that also says a lot about the skill tree and what Wortox wants. (Seamless teleportation with no midway grinding pauses.)
Knapsack's a mistake, which is odd because the premise really isn't so bad if not for terrible balance and hideous visuals/animations. It does NOT give the desired feeling of smacking someone with a Krampus sack.
Soul bastion is banal as banal gets but I get who it's meant to appeal to so I have no room to complain.
Telltale heart line is fine even though the teleport is largely irrelevant after lazy deserters are set. Nothing one can do about that, it's fine to respec and that's fine.
The teleport skills are absolutely essential for every tree especially with alignment and I hate the alignments' reliance on reverberation because it'd not be hard to skip otherwise after having mapped the world. Without capricious movement the jars are emptied so, so much sooner.
Reverberation is also outright a nerf to decoy, resulting in far less decoys while soul-kiting even though it does conserve a lot of souls while doing so. You have to open a jar after each soul kite to maximise your damage with it, which is awkward because you could almost fit an entire blow into that window, so no point unless mass-killing bees in a "I have no other aoe skills" situation. I guess this is not the worst thing about the skill tree, though it sucks when killing bees if you had bad luck with graves for a red gem early on, ESPECIALLY because they can deaggro when you are just trying to consume the soul echos in an attempt to finish them off with a second decoy. Obviously this problem ceases to exist if you use the reaper with affinity as your weapon of choice so my complaint lasts only until then.
Lunar affinity feels thematically random, but that'd honestly be really easy to deal with. Add some illusions. Moonlight copies. I don't know, justify the free hits in a way that fits Wortox. Lunar swindler is missing the "swindler" part. Wortox has decoys already, it's not farfetched to come up with some moon magic that actually fits what has been added with the rest of the skill tree to make the alignment feel not out of place. You could put "lunar armor has protective aura that brushes off a hit" and tie it to something else and slap it on any other character and it'd be believable. This could be Wilson's alignment and I'd believe it.
Panflute is... Hm. Conserving uses is alright, in solo or with friends not remarkable but in pubs I can see why it might not be as feasible to get repairs on it via decon staves. Summoning souls is SUPER NICE, this is a perk that works, especially with the free use. The 5-second thing... I do like how funny it is, breaking bosses in a very silly way, but I must admit it is 1) a little too short. 2) VERY multiplayer-unfriendly. I kept thinking I could kill those bishops effortlessly only for them to beat my friend to death. The mobs should just be unable to aggro on ANYTHING for the duration for this skill to be usable decently in multiplayer.

What I'd want: for the prerequisite skills of decoy-pierce etc. to be merged and +1 *something* added to one of the prerequisites. Don't know what else could go there, just something not related to 1) relieving a pre-existing restriction placed on wortox by design 2) buffing a pre-existing ability either directly or indirectly. I want to see a few more creative and refreshing things before I'm fully satisfied.

Idea to make soul pierce more practically applicable: Maybe the pain inflicted on boss/epic mobs causes some of the souls they *seem to* hold to leak out to damage them mid-fight? I'unno. Soul pierce could use *anything*. The 40-butterfly thing really is just an impractical parlor trick to replace gunpowder in an arguably more inconvinient, grindier way.

Also, still waiting for unique vfx for the reaper.

16 hours ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

I think the knabsack is pretty lame in it's entirety.

After spending time with krampus, wortox learned how to make one of their bags. Cool, but we already pick up their bags and that's not it. It looks pretty lame, getting access to lots of souls loses a lot when you're supposed to just hold onto 100 of them. Because that's what we wanted, we love looking at the souls pile up in our inventory, and being told not to use them. With so many conditions it should be op like wandas weapon, but it's damage and range is comparable to an item that just asks for a little sanity. Don't forget that you have to quest for the bottles to make it even hit that damage. And if you want that soul jar, it's required!

Tldr. continuity breaking, ugly, resource intense (who cares about the silk, you're making a spear. I'm talking about the 100 souls and the full inventory to turn the spear into a dark sword), low damage garbo that you absolutely have to take. 

DEATH TO THE KNAPSACK!!!!!! IT'S SO LAME ONGODS

[WilsonHiggs]

On 2/9/2025 at 7:46 AM, Baark0 said:

I'd be open to changing a lot of the "soul range/soul travel speed" skills into something more interesting, since a lot of Wortox's skills feel like requirements to get the actual cool skills, when ideally each skill would be interesting and at least worth consideration.

Tbh its mostly reaching souls 2, soul bastion 2, soul thief 1 and 2, and soul decoy 2 that could really use some changes, as much as id like for the affinities to do something before rifts, or for a more multiplayer friendly skill in place of cloudy carmen. Maybe I'm just comparing Wortox's skill tree too much to Walter's, but I feel like there are more interesting things you can do here than more healing range for 2 skills.

Totally agree. Wortox might have 20ish skill points but in reallity he only has like half because the other half are just fillers to make the good ones more expensive (which is comprensible so they dont bloat the tree with just good stuff like others) but makes his tree very rigid and boring. The fact that 2 branches are for multiplayer doesnt help either