Devs should honestly stop focusing skilltree buffs on combat

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

What about the fertilizer, bloodshot, swamp team speed boost, the merm regen/call button structure.

They are mediocre and unfufilling,

[Yaorin yon]

The combat aspect is crucial because the vast majority of resources are tied to it. It's not so much that the skill tree is overly focused on combat, but rather that the game itself is too combat-oriented. I support having more non-combat elements in the skill tree, and likewise, the game should be encouraged to update more content that is not combat-focused.

[Mysterious box]

25 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They are mediocre and unfufilling,

Mediocre in what way?

Skeeter bombs do a lot of damage between the bomb itself and the 6 mosquitos it summons it can even overwhelm some bosses and break up hordes.

Bloodshoots are just a straight up good healing item for Wurt herself

Fertilizzzer is almost as potent as Wormwood's fertilizer which is the best in the game while being far cheaper.

If you don't like that they exist I can understand that but they aren't bad by any means they're high value abilities that shine independently of merm followers.

[Soul7k]

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Mediocre in what way?

Skeeter bombs do a lot of damage between the bomb itself and the 6 mosquitos it summons it can even overwhelm some bosses and break up hordes.

Bloodshoots are just a straight up good healing item for Wurt herself

Fertilizzzer is almost as potent as Wormwood's fertilizer which is the best in the game while being far cheaper.

If you don't like that they exist I can understand that but they aren't bad by any means they're high value abilities that shine independently of merm followers.

i agree. i recently played as Wurt for a few hundred days and it was all smooth sailing. time consuming, but smooth..except Klaus because I  didn't want to ruin bosses for everyone going critical mass

[Well-met]

wilson's tree has nothing about combat and people think its the worst one soooo.....

[Jakepeng99]

58 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Skeeter bombs do a lot of damage between the bomb itself and the 6 mosquitos it summons it can even overwhelm some bosses and break up hordes.

Combat.

 

58 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Bloodshoots are just a straight up good healing item for Wurt herself

They are fine but when thats the staple of utility of the branch...

59 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Fertilizzzer is almost as potent as Wormwood's fertilizer which is the best in the game while being far cheaper.

Fertaliser is often not worth it.

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

wilson's tree has nothing about combat and people think its the worst one soooo.....

Thats a bad statement.

[Well-met]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

Thats a bad statement.

explain why or be disregarded

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Well-met said:

explain why or be disregarded

Its not the lack of combat skills, its the low quality skills in general.

 

6 of them increase torch durability and range. 6 for faster beard growth and insulation. Many others are for too niche transmutations that you will rarely use.

 

 

[Crimson Hollow]

3 minutes ago, Well-met said:

wilson's tree has nothing about combat and people think its the worst one soooo.....

Really? He always has a place in the late game

[Mike23Ua]

I have the strangest feeling that after Klei is happy and satisfied with where the cast of characters are in terms of mobility and combat, that they’ll go back through and overhaul the rest of the game to match that. A lot of the enemy mob AI is literally no joke: Over a Decade old now, and they could be updated with new animations or combat abilities.

And don’t say they’ll never do that: because they have before in the past, hunt trails are now more distinguishable, at the end of said hunts you may encounter half eaten Koalephant before Vargs or Lunar Thralls spawn what people fail to actually see: Is that it isn’t just the characters that are getting crazy buffs, the world around us is literally being changed up as well…

And changes to hunt behavior is just one example, I’m certain they’ll do more changes to more stuff, the only real question is: How many years is it going to take them? Because good god- the Wendy, Walter, Wortox beta has been in Limbo for (slight over exaggeration) Half a Year.

[Well-met]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Its not the lack of combat skills, its the low quality skills in general.

 

6 of them increase torch durability and range. 6 for faster beard growth and insulation. Many others are for too niche transmutations that you will rarely use.

 

 

you are moving the goal post.

Skill trees are heavily combat focused because thats what people really want in the end, and those who aren't get called bad.

[Chewabacca]

22 minutes ago, Well-met said:

wilson's tree has nothing about combat and people think its the worst one soooo.....

People also think Wolfgang's is bad and it's all about combat.

[Gashzer]

2 hours ago, flamboyant wolf said:

I used to use em, and it's pretty convenient, but it ends up kinda being the choice between those 2 skills and having both affinities at the same time for me, and both Bernie and Fire affinity skills are pretty good value. 

I think flexibility of Willow's tree could be improved a bit in the future sometime, for example combining ember tender into hungry lighter could be good.

Having both bernie and spell affinities makes zero sense because you sacrifice too much for too little. 

Regular old bernie is extremely tanky and if you need him to be more tanky for a specific boss fight just make a sewing kit (worth 10000 hp).  You need atleast 7 skill points to get an use affinity bernie meaning you have to sacrifice 3 skill points. Unless you plan to have big bernie out 24/7 this is wasted.

And with lunar flame/combustion with fire fighter, you have no need for big bernie in your day to day. You might as well just get brighter lighter because you will use it more than bernie and igniting regular mobs using willows lighter with fire fighter skill is pretty powerful.

With burning bernie build, combustion or extended fire panic works against you because you don't want mobs to fire panic, you want regular mobs to suicide themselves against burning bernie and since you need willows lighter to ignite big bernie you might as well invest in making it have better utility.

Willows skilltree is very very very well designed, good job klei! 

[flamboyant wolf]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Having both bernie and spell affinities makes zero sense because you sacrifice too much for too little. 

 

I don't really feel like I sacrifice anything, is the thing though. Guess it's a matter of perspective though. 

[Jakepeng99]

12 minutes ago, Well-met said:

you are moving the goal post.

Skill trees are heavily combat focused because thats what people really want in the end, and those who aren't get called bad.

I didnt move the goal post. You moved the biggest goal post in the milky way by just randomly stating i moved the goal post to the point i made a shocked expression on my face.

 

Im saying people dont hate Wilson skilltree because of a lack of combat skills, but instead the skills themselves.

10 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

People also think Wolfgang's is bad and it's all about combat.

Exactly.

 

Many people seem to dislike Wigfrid's too, i randomly see posts pop up saying to redo her skilltree.

[Gashzer]

Just now, flamboyant wolf said:

I don't really feel like I sacrifice anything, is the thing though. Guess it's a matter of perspective though. 

Another way to look at it is, apart from aesthetic changes. Do you really need affinity bernie? No you don't. Big bernie with a sewing kit does the same job.

Unless you are going burning bernie and having big bernie out 24/7 to flaming tank kill shadows, spiders, beefalos, pigs and want bernie to be tanky enough to regen through all that without needing a sewing kit and fast enough to outrun crawling horrors. You don't need to invest in bernie apart from the 4 skills left over from getting all the fire mage lighter skills.

[Mysterious box]

42 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Combat.

 

They are fine but when thats the staple of utility of the branch...

Fertaliser is often not worth it.

Thats a bad statement.

The fertilizer is good for anyone who actually wants to engage with farming outside of reading through crop combo guides less people do that than you think.

And the bloodshot is not the core of the utility of Wurt's skill tree it's definitely the tools for merms 

16 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Another way to look at it is, apart from aesthetic changes. Do you really need affinity bernie? No you don't. Big bernie with a sewing kit does the same job.

Unless you are going burning bernie and having big bernie out 24/7 to flaming tank kill shadows, spiders, beefalos, pigs and want bernie to be tanky enough to regen through all that without needing a sewing kit and fast enough to outrun crawling horrors. You don't need to invest in bernie apart from the 4 skills left over from getting all the fire mage lighter skills.

The point of affinity bernie is to help him tank planar enemies since tanking is his primary role hot headed is there for the same reason.

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The point of affinity bernie is to help him tank planar enemies since tanking is his primary role hot headed is there for the same reason.

Again, big bernie with a sewing kit does the same job. The shadow rift trio gets distracted by regular/affinity big bernie all the same and it takes 2 secs for lunar flame to wipe them out. Hot-headed is the only skill of willows which is bad.

Also affinity bernie acts like a planar mob in terms of defence so it actually works better for non-planar defence.

Full Mage willow has no business investing in affinity bernie. Just get all the lighter skills and enjoy.

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Again, big bernie with a sewing kit does the same job. The shadow rift trio gets distracted by regular/affinity big bernie all the same and it takes 2 secs for lunar flame to wipe them out. Hot-headed is the only skill of willows which is bad.

Also affinity bernie acts like a planar mob in terms of defence so it actually works better for non-planar defence.

Full Mage willow has no business investing in affinity bernie. Just get all the lighter skills and enjoy.

Those aren't the only planar enemies and it'll take more and more kits as we get more planar enemies you're simply making maintaining bernie more expensive.

[Soul7k]

59 minutes ago, Well-met said:

explain why or be disregarded

Wilson can farm nitre without a petrified forrest...which means gunpowder!!!

[flamboyant wolf]

26 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Another way to look at it is, apart from aesthetic changes. Do you really need affinity bernie? No you don't. Big bernie with a sewing kit does the same job.

Unless you are going burning bernie and having big bernie out 24/7 to flaming tank kill shadows, spiders, beefalos, pigs and want bernie to be tanky enough to regen through all that without needing a sewing kit and fast enough to outrun crawling horrors. You don't need to invest in bernie apart from the 4 skills left over from getting all the fire mage lighter skills.

I am not gonna use the 25% dmg spell anyway, so like. I'd rather have a much tankier bear than brighter lighter.

[Soul7k]

35 minutes ago, flamboyant wolf said:

I don't really feel like I sacrifice anything, is the thing though. Guess it's a matter of perspective though. 

i'm just saying 9 points is a bit steep. nobody else has to do this. I want to use it. i Just wont

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Those aren't the only planar enemies and it'll take more and more kits as we get more planar enemies you're simply making maintaining bernie more expensive.

By the time you get to planar enemies you will have no problem affording sewing kits. 

And what other planar enemies do you expect big bernie to fight? And if you say lunar rifts bosses then you are just mad. Bernie's dps is not worth the investment and him "distracting" bosses just adds to unpredictability and chaos

1 minute ago, flamboyant wolf said:

I am not gonna use the 25% dmg spell anyway, so like. I'd rather have a much tankier bear than brighter lighter.

25% damage boost is huge to be missing out on... but you do you.

[flamboyant wolf]

1 minute ago, Soul7k said:

i'm just saying 9 points is a bit steep. I want to use it. i Just wont

I'd guess you're talking about burning bernie? I am talking about the affinity skill.

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

25% damage boost is huge to be missing out on... but you do you.

I just don't find it interesting, but also it's not really useful to me anyway? It's only really viable in boss fights, and I don't really want to burn through my friends' hp for a bit of dmg boost. The skill might be decent for solo players, or in combination with characters that can avoid fire dmg like Wigfrid and Walter, but 95% of the time it'd be actively detrimental for me to try using it.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

By the time you get to planar enemies you will have no problem affording sewing kits. 

And what other planar enemies do you expect big bernie to fight? And if you say lunar rifts bosses then you are just mad. Bernie's dps is not worth the investment and him "distracting" bosses just adds to unpredictability and chaos

25% damage boost is huge to be missing out on... but you do you.

Yeah I expect people to use him in planar boss fights and future stronger planar enemies.