The change of Cursed Vex seems as a pure nerfing but not adjustment.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

there allready is a poll

they are not same and I have to say I'm tired of talking for off-topic thing.

2 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I think Shadow alignment needs a buff, it's been hit way too hard in the past few patches. The only part that was potentially egrigous was Beef Wendy, but that shouldn't be the basis for balancing a survivor that isn't designed around beefalo.

I'd keep the flat planar damage, as that gives Wendy unqiue interactions compared to the % based damage of regular weapons, but I'd either revert the standardization of Shadow Abigail's damage or Buff the planar bonus by 5-10 when Wendy's attacking, like her regular vex.

The thing goes weird now since what we needed before is buffing for lunar line but adjustment for shadow line. But now we need buffing for both line.

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

they are not same and I have to say I'm tired of talking for off-topic thing.

The thing goes weird now since what we needed before is buffing for lunar line but adjustment for shadow line. But now we need buffing for both line.

Eh I think Lunar's in a good enough spot. The removal of Hiding Mode and the buff to accessibility makes it servicable at least.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Eh I think Lunar's in a good enough spot. The removal of Hiding Mode and the buff to accessibility makes it servicable at least.

ah, I knew that the hiding mode changes toward lunar in this newest update after I got my PC yesterday.

but I got some feedback from those who are not skill-master to Wendy, that they feels frustrating about current skill tree which is still lack of survivability of Abby. They always lose their Abby in most boss fights and they think Wendy is still a character which hard to play than Wilson in boss fights.

I think these feedback should not be ignored or rejected ngl. Which makes me think if we won't have any improvements for Sisturn III then we should have some improvement for Lunar line for those unskilled Wendy players.

[Koomin]

The fact that over 1/3rd of the responders wanted shadow vex to get buffed instead is a pretty comical representation of this whole experience.

[Lardee]

Doesn't really matter if it gets nerfed or buffed. All that matters is whether it provides enough incentive for people to pick Shadow over Lunar. 

IMO as long as it outdamages Gestalt Abigail enough, then it's fine.

 

[Xplan]

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Doesn't really matter if it gets nerfed or buffed. All that matters is whether it provides enough incentive for people to pick Shadow over Lunar. 

IMO as long as it outdamages Gestalt Abigail enough, then it's fine.

 

do u think "cursed vex + weather pain" should be kept or not

[Lardee]

Just now, Xplan said:

do u think "cursed vex + weather pain" should be kept or not

I view it as a fun little gimmick, so I think it's fine.

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

I view it as a fun little gimmick, so I think it's fine.

i love this, cause it's interesting. tbh i'm satisfiec with the skill tree already.

but i saw some suggestion that advising klei to buff cursed vex to 15 or 25.

it might make "cursed vex + weather pain" op. i'm afraid of it being removed.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Xplan said:

i love this, cause it's interesting. tbh i'm satisfiec with the skill tree already.

but i saw some suggestion that advising klei to buff cursed vex to 15 or 25.

it might make "cursed vex + weather pain" op. i'm afraid of it being removed.

tbh the weather pain thing is expensive even you have infinity green gems. it cost time for crafting.

so I don't think it would be op even the amounts would get buffed to 25 in future.

[Thieta]

Honestly they should just revert the vex potion and nerf the dmg multiplier and add a small amount of planar damage - That way post-rift the multiplier + planar dmg (I'm unsure if planar is flat dmg or if it's affected by multipler tbh) should make it as strong or a bit weaker than it was before?

I honestly don't understand why the devs have such struggle balancing this - They literally have entire dmg charts that people here have made showing a consistent and easily modifiable formula - Why don't they just spend 10 minutes with the formula to find a good balance of dmg for pre-rift and post-rift then just add that to release...

[Debruh]

3 hours ago, Xplan said:

i love this, cause it's interesting. tbh i'm satisfiec with the skill tree already.

but i saw some suggestion that advising klei to buff cursed vex to 15 or 25.

it might make "cursed vex + weather pain" op. i'm afraid of it being removed.

Make it work like the og vex. 

If the creature is hit by something, it gets dealt 10 planar damage. If by Wendy, add additional damage

[Dr. Safety]

I'll say only nerf, but I should clarify that it's only for removing the beefalo thing. Otherwise it was fine. 

Edit: actually in talking to @Yaorin yon in DMs, I'll say the first option, under the condition that whatever got modified would address the beefalo thing. They brought up some good points and we had a very nice discussion about where we disagree on things

[Dingle]

8 hours ago, Steorra said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Old Cursed Vex to planar mob:

Brightshade Sword + Helm (to Shadow Mobs)

(√(38*1.2*1.3*1.6*4+64)-8)*4+30*1.1+5 = 90.23

Shadow Reaper + Cowl (maximum buff, to Lunar Mobs)

(√(38*1.2*1.3*1.6*4+64)-8)*4+38*1.1+5 = 99.03

Nightmare Saddle Ornery Beefalo:

(√(50*1.3*1.6*4+64)-8)*4+16 = 71.64

Enlightened Crown:

(√(42.5*1.3*1.6*4+64)-8)*4 = 49.74

 

 

New Cursed Vex to planar mob:

Brightshade Sword + Helm (to Shadow Mobs)

(√(38*1.2*1.1*1.4*4+64)-8)*4+30*1.1+5+10 = 90.29

Shadow Reaper + Cowl (maximum buff, to Lunar Mobs)

(√(38*1.2*1.1*1.4*4+64)-8)*4+38*1.1+5+10 = 99.86

Nightmare Saddle Ornery Beefalo:

(√(50*1.1*1.4*4+64)-8)*4+16+10 = 71.15

Enlightened Crown:

(√(42.5*1.1*1.4*4+64)-8)*4+10 = 50.20

You could found that the newest change of Cursed Vex simply deleted its' bonus to normal mobs, but do almost no change to planar mobs.

 

We all knew that what the community asked before is "Nerf the efficiency of Cursed Vex for pre-rift; Buff its' efficiency for post-rift"

But the newest change gave us "Delete the efficiency of Cursed Vex for pre-rift; No change for post-rift"

This is UNFAIR. (I don't want to talk about the weather pain thing. It's meaningless to most people since it's just an alternative gunpowder with lower efficiency but more expensive cost)

Could we retune it by following what the community asked for, but not keeping obsessed with NERFING to Wendy @Jason? The continuously nerfing to Wendy is being seems like an emotion-driven thing but not for fair balance tbh.

 

Personal ideas of future adjustment:

  Hide contents

To change the Cursed Vex effect into "Vexed entity get extra 15% damage from both normal and planar damage".

Or, to change the current flat planar damage bonus of Cursed Vex to 22.5 (or 25 for Wendy, 17.5 for others)

 

She got a lot of buffs too this update. I remember someone making a list.

I hope they don't change this Cursed Vex. The multihit is really cool, and should also have a lot of uses in multiplayer.

[Steorra]

9 minutes ago, Dingle said:

The multihit is really cool

only cool for expensive weather pain which is almost an alternative gunpowder. 

10 minutes ago, Dingle said:

have a lot of uses in multiplayer.

If you could manage your abby alive in multiplayer boss fightings, the boss should die easily whether you have or you have not the cursed vex. the balance issue of multiplayer was never exist since multiplayer game is always overwhelming all enemies (if you do team fighting.)

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

only cool for expensive weather pain which is almost an alternative gunpowder. 

It works with any type of multihit.

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

If you could manage your abby alive in multiplayer boss fightings, the boss should die easily whether you have or you have not the cursed vex. the balance issue of multiplayer was never exist since multiplayer game is always overwhelming all enemies (if you do team fighting.)

Should all perk choices be for soloers or experts?

[Steorra]

Just now, Dingle said:

It works with any type of multihit.

I already did the math, go check it. If you need the math of thulecite club I don't mind did it for you laterly.

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Should all perk choices be for soloers or experts?

this is not a good argument, since 1st Wendy already have many teamwork skills such as the alter the wreath and the sanity resistance sharing, 2nd multiplayer game is never "urgently needed" something because once you fight with your team everything would be overwhelmed. 

So I don't think this reply make sense for me.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I already did the math, go check it. If you need the math of thulecite club I don't mind did it for you laterly.

I saw it!

It's really misleading.

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

this is not a good argument, since 1st Wendy already have many teamwork skills such as the alter the wreath and the sanity resistance sharing, 2nd multiplayer game is never "urgently needed" something because once you fight with your team everything would be overwhelmed. 

So I don't think this reply make sense for me.

Giving your team wolfgang levels of damage if they use thulecite clubs seems like a pretty good perk. Especially if you're not fighting with a full group of 6 

[Steorra]

Just now, Dingle said:

Giving your team wolfgang levels of damage if they use thulecite clubs seems like a pretty good perk. Especially if you're not fighting with a full group of 6 

tbh I personally is lack of interest for further discussion of team balance, and I don't think team balance would make sense for current beta (except the nice Wortox)

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

tbh I personally is lack of interest for further discussion of team balance, and I don't think team balance would make sense for current beta (except the nice Wortox)

Oh ok.

I guess if we ignore all the good parts of Cursed Vex, then it's bad.

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Oh ok.

I guess if we ignore all the good parts of Cursed Vex, then it's bad.

In case you need it.

 

Cursed Vex for Shadow Tentacle to Planar Entity:

Before the update:

(√(34*1.3*1.6*4+64)-8)*4 = 42.50

After the update:

(√(34*1.1*1.4*4+64)-8)*4 +10 = 44.14

 

1.64 damage per hit has been increased.

I don't think this make sense for the original topic ngl.

 

We all knew the current beta have almost no discussion about teamwork balance, and it should never be a thing for skill tree design. You may defense for current Cursed Vex by only the teamwork thing freely but I won't take anything from team balance argument. We already have a failed skill tree like Wigfrid which sacrificed many personal power for teamwork, I don't think to make another skilltree which is unwelcomed like Wigfrid is what the designer aimed to.

[Soul7k]

From the last thread. which was also the same topic.

 

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Soul7k said:

From the last thread. which was also the same topic.

 

Have no interest to continue a wrong argument. Check the math above and rethink what difference between old and new Cursed Vex for those things you've been interested in. Or did you think enlightened crown and Shadow Tentacles got no benefit from old Cursed Vex?

[Soul7k]

12 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Have no interest to continue a wrong argument. Check the math above and rethink what difference between old and new Cursed Vex for those things you've been interested in. Or did you think enlightened crown and Shadow Tentacles got no benefit from old Cursed Vex?

both before and after patch values are listed in the same chart I linked from your last thread so I don't know how to respond to your question

[Steorra]

2 hours ago, Soul7k said:

both before and after patch values are listed in the same chart I linked from your last thread so I don't know how to respond to your question

it seems like to encourage Wendy to use Thulecite Club for post-rift combat. It would work on theory ngl, but it's quite strange for me and the movement of target would makes it become worse than what you see in math.

And it seems have a high needed for Enlightened Crown, but the Crown is inconvenient to use for Wendy on foot even she has the sanity resistance.

 

here's the math:

Spoiler

damage per hit comparison: (in current beta to non-affinity bosses)

Before the update

Brightshade Sword + Enlightened Crown:

(√(38*1.1*1.3*1.6*0.75*4+64)-8)*4+30+(√(42.5*1.3*4+64)-8)*4 = 105.62 per hit

Thulecite Club + Enlightened Crown:

(√(59*1.1*1.3*1.6*0.75*4+64)-8)*4+(√(42.5*1.3*4+64)-8)*4 = 90.15 per hit

Shadow Tentacle:

(√(34*1.3*4+64)-8)*4 = 30.07

 

After the update

Brightshade Sword + Enlightened Crown:

(√(38*1.1*1.1*1.4*0.75*4+64)-8)*4+30+10+(√(42.5*1.1*4+64)-8)*4+10 = 113.51 per hit

Thulecite Club + Enlightened Crown:

(√(59*1.1*1.1*1.4*0.75*4+64)-8)*4+10+(√(42.5*1.1*4+64)-8)*4+10 = 95.67 per hit

Shadow Tentacle:

(√(34*1.1*4+64)-8)*4+10 = 36.46

 

[Adachi69]

36 minutes ago, Steorra said:

it seems like to encourage Wendy to use Thulecite Club for post-rift combat. It would work on theory ngl, but it's quite strange for me and the movement of target would makes it become worse than what you see in math.

And it seems have a high needed for Enlightened Crown, but the Crown is inconvenient to use for Wendy on foot even she has the sanity resistance.

 

I hate the thulecite club and crown combo, it's not even that good in perfect conditions. Thulecite Club is rng and is inferior choice in most fights. Spawned tentacles have negative sanity aura, which crown relies on, this is literally the opposite of synergy. Crown also offers literally zero protection. So now you need to look after Abigail, opponent to stand still, somehow dodge attacks, eat something to restore sanity for an entire fight and have good luck to get anything meaningful from this. I am so salty at this point, even getting these items is a pain.