To make gunpowder rounds ignite enemy?

[Steorra]

Walter need an ammo for ignition effect. And for no more ammo varieties sake, I guess it's suitable to adding the ignition effect to gunpowder rounds. If we have worries to make gunpowder rounds have too many effect to become OP, the ignition effect might be have a trigger chance as well. 

And the downside of ignition would ensure that the gunpowder would not be a simple "DPS ammo plus"

[Mysterious box]

42 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Walter need an ammo for ignition effect. And for no more ammo varieties sake, I guess it's suitable to adding the ignition effect to gunpowder rounds. If we have worries to make gunpowder rounds have too many effect to become OP, the ignition effect might be have a trigger chance as well. 

And the downside of ignition would ensure that the gunpowder would not be a simple "DPS ammo plus"

Gunpowder only does damage and it's weaker than cursed rounds(and some others if I remember right) already giving it a downside to burn your loot doesn't make any mechanical sense it'd be like giving Wendy a 20% chance to kill abigial in combat a downside without purpose.

On a side note Walter isn't Willow he does not need a fire round and making such a round would be out of character for him in the first place due to how serious he is about fire safety.

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Gunpowder only does damage and it's weaker than cursed rounds(and some others if I remember right) already giving it a downside to burn your loot doesn't make any mechanical sense it'd be like giving Wendy a 20% chance to kill abigial in combat a downside without purpose.

On a side note Walter isn't Willow he does not need a fire round and making such a round would be out of character for him in the first place due to how serious he is about fire safety.

The ignition effect would being a potential choices to fix the interaction between Walter and Bee Queen. Fire would cause fearing to mobs. You can't say it's only a downside since the fire is the original weak point of Bee Queen from the very beginning design.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Steorra said:

The ignition effect would being a potential choices to fix the interaction between Walter and Bee Queen. Fire would cause fearing to mobs. You can't say it's only a downside since the fire is the original weak point of Bee Queen from the very beginning design.

We can't see life bars so unless you plan on giving him Willow's loot protection it'll see as much use as the fire staff even more so because once again it's a weak ammo type as is people would just use cursed rounds which is what most people already do.

[Gashzer]

It would be alot better for Walter if gunpowder rounds do work like chop trees/mine boulders/hammer buildings when free fired.

Gunpowder rounds are expensive so this is balanced.

[Steorra]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

We can't see life bars so unless you plan on giving him Willow's loot protection it'll see as much use as the fire staff even more so because once again it's a weak ammo type as is people would just use cursed rounds which is what most people already do.

Scale armor become a meta for Bee Queen from the very beginning before character refresh. It worked fine. If you burnt your drops that's just your fault why may caused by lack of skills.

Yes, it would be hard to protect your drops. But it should be hard for Walter when facing his downside.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

Scale armor become a meta for Bee Queen from the very beginning before character refresh. It worked fine. If you burnt your drops that's just your fault why may caused by lack of skills.

Yes, it would be hard to protect your drops. But it should be hard for Walter when facing his downside.

Then let's reintroduce abigial's 3 day respawn cooldown that was removed in her refresh and remove all the items that would speed it up afterall with all the tools she has it's the player's fault if she dies right?

[Steorra]

31 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Then let's reintroduce abigial's 3 day respawn cooldown that was removed in her refresh and remove all the items that would speed it up afterall with all the tools she has it's the player's fault if she dies right?

Scale armor is still a popular solution for most characters who have no AoE, even for Woodie if you don't want to transform into weremoose. I have no idea that why the comparison you gave here.

Seems the "downside is important" should never work for Walter in your opinions right? You even don't want to keep his only downside toward Bee Queen.

And it's really impressive to see that you being extremely activated than Walter mains for defending Walter's "downside fixing" by against my opinions. And even I gave many compromise you'd just pressing forward for your simply "no".

Seems we won't have a meaningful honest argument here.

 

Especially I have never imaged that someone have AoE ability, and was designed as weak toward bees, would complaining about ignition strategy for Bee Queen, when the strategy is definitely fine for most non AoE characters.

Oh, and no need to say this thread is just an idea about extra effect for Walter ammo. It seems to say no to who you dislike is really important for you.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Scale armor is still a popular solution for most characters who have no AoE, even for Woodie if you don't want to transform into weremoose. I have no idea that comparison you gave here.

Seems the "downside is important" should never work for Walter in your opinions right? You even don't want to keep his only downside toward Bee Queen.

You know I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt but it seems your so dead set on bad faith comparsions that I just can't anymore.

Scalemail is a defensive item meaning enemies are only lit on fire when they harm you which is more controllable than you actively lighting them on fire there's a reason the strategy uses scalemail and not a fire staff. You saying it's the player's fault if the loot burns shows how transparent your intentions are. However again why don't we reinstate Wendy's original downside? With all the new survivability options she has no reason not to still have it right?

You made a post with the purpose of changing Woby's identity despite all the backlash from people saying Wendy's skill tree went against her identity in earlier builds but it doesn't matter because it's not Wendy right? You didn't even realize Woby doesn't buck off from just a single hit likely because you've never even tried Walter before making these claims.

You throwing out random nerfs and balance changes without even understanding the impacts they have then going "See you just don't care about balance." when someone points them out isn't being productive it's acting in bad faith and retaliation.  Also saying he lost his downside to bees and sanity when both still function at full effect is the absolute peak of bad faith he didn't suddenly gain protection against those aspects of his character.

[Steorra]

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Also saying he lost his downside to bees and sanity when both still function at full effect is the absolute peak of bad faith he didn't suddenly gain protection against those aspects of his character.

Already gave the evidence to show how the fix happened even no cheese. You defence for Walter's downside here seems meaningless. Especially this thread is just for an ignition effect adding to make Walter ammo varieties.

Still have no idea why you focusing the Bee Queen fighting so hardly in this thread.

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Scalemail is a defensive item meaning enemies are only lit on fire when they harm you which is more controllable than you actively lighting them on fire

And the importance of to use scale armor for anti Bee Queen without health bar mod is phase/health confirmation. With this the defensive or offensive ignition has no difference. You could simply stop use ignition ammos when you think the Bee Queen is going to die, and ignite a forest, wearing scale armor and go into the forest for preventing the bee armies and drop losses. You just can't suffer the inconvenience here for your character downside. It seems a completely different standard you have towards Wendy and Walter lol.

30 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You made a post with the purpose of changing Woby's identity despite

And for this, I have same standard to every characters. Woodie could overcome his downside somehow by his skill tree which hinted his growth. So does Wendy and Walter - especially if this "growth" is for demonstrating the main downside of the character. But you do not want to lose the overpower but boring playstyles of kiting and pressing F right? You keep saying "no that won't work, that have no chance to work" for every single ideas of a particular people. Tbh, that is rude and funny.

[Chewabacca]

I've seen the "Walter lost his sanity downside" thing a few times before and I just want to clarify before this turns into another Wendy war and we get off-topic: the only skill on his tree that directly has anything to do with sanity is Support, which reduces the amount of sanity lost when he's hit on Woby and, once trained enough, lets him regenerate some sanity while riding her. You might think that the sanity loss reduction part is something that makes him lose his sanity downside, at least while on Woby, but actually, because Woby is not very damage-tolerant, it doesn't mitigate it very much at all. Walter's sanity loss when he gets hit is usually 2*damage taken. If Bravery isn't on on Woby, the threshold for getting bucked off is 8 damage. That means that the max amount of sanity that Walter will lose when he's on Woby is 16. 16 sanity is not a whole lot, and honestly, I find the sanity regeneration much more useful for fighting the drain once in a non-combat situation. If Bravery is on, Support's sanity loss reduction becomes much more useful, as Walter's max sanity loss on Woby can now be 66 without Support, but having both Support and Bravery badges on Woby at the same time means sacrificing Woby's Agility badge, making Walter much more vulnerable to getting hit in the first place. I've actually never had a build like that because speed is just so useful. Not sure if it would be viable. It would also mean sacrificing slingshot skill points, though, and those are pretty valuable.

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

I've seen the "Walter lost his sanity downside" thing a few times before and I just want to clarify before this turns into another Wendy war and we get off-topic: the only skill on his tree that directly has anything to do with sanity is Support, which reduces the amount of sanity lost when he's hit on Woby and, once trained enough, lets him regenerate some sanity while riding her. You might think that the sanity loss reduction part is something that makes him lose his sanity downside, at least while on Woby, but actually, because Woby is not very damage-tolerant, it doesn't mitigate it very much at all. Walter's sanity loss when he gets hit is usually 2*damage taken. If Bravery isn't on on Woby, the threshold for getting bucked off is 8 damage. That means that the max amount of sanity that Walter will lose when he's on Woby is 16. 16 sanity is not a whole lot, and honestly, I find the sanity regeneration much more useful for fighting the drain once in a non-combat situation. If Bravery is on, Support's sanity loss reduction becomes much more useful, as Walter's max sanity loss on Woby can now be 66 without Support, but having both Support and Bravery badges on Woby at the same time means sacrificing Woby's Agility badge, making Walter much more vulnerable to getting hit in the first place. I've actually never have a build like that because speed is just so useful. Not sure if it would be viable. It would also mean sacrificing slingshot skill points, though, and those are pretty valuable.

The Wendy thing or the Bee Queen thing is already off topic from the beginning ngl.

Thanks for your experience sharing. Tbh I'm just a newcomer to Walter, if I have some wrong understanding of him I'm glad to accept correction and blaming. The simple ammo effect suggestions i gave was based on my shallow understanding of Walter, since I only feel "there should be one ignition effect for ammos since fire is useful in some scenarios". And samely, I only have the experience of fire strategy toward Bee Queen (I was use Woodie to kill Bee Queen without weremoose), which makes me think the ignition ammo would work for Bee Queen.

Still have no idea why the ignition effect of ammo would be such triggering for some people.

[Danila6300]

The idea of igniting mobs may be interesting, but it's quite dangerous. Ignition in general is not that easy to control, which is why the fire staff is not used. Players are afraid that another object might catch fire, but they are even more afraid that all the loot will burn and that will be quite a shame. I would generally prefer to smash boulders with gunpowder projectiles. 

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Danila6300 said:

The idea of igniting mobs may be interesting, but it's quite dangerous.

Yes. But it would be unique since it would have AoE ability. It would become an "AoE scaring effect" which could cast from remote. (And might be further than Willow? Not sure)

[Danila6300]

Just now, Steorra said:

Yes. But it would be unique since it would have AoE ability. It would become an "AoE scaring effect" which could cast from remote. (And might be further than Willow? Not sure)

Not everyone is afraid of fire and the fear of losing things is very great. 

[Mysterious box]

29 minutes ago, Steorra said:

With this the defensive or offensive ignition has no difference.

You must think bramble husks and spears are the same item.

19 minutes ago, Steorra said:

The Wendy thing or the Bee Queen thing is already off topic from the beginning ngl.

Thanks for your experience sharing. Tbh I'm just a newcomer to Walter, if I have some wrong understanding of him I'm glad to accept correction and blaming. The simple ammo effect suggestions i gave was based on my shallow understanding of Walter, since I only feel "there should be one ignition effect for ammos since fire is useful in some scenarios". And samely, I only have the experience of fire strategy toward Bee Queen (I was use Woodie to kill Bee Queen without weremoose), which makes me think the ignition ammo would work for Bee Queen.

Still have no idea why the ignition effect of ammo would be such triggering for some people.

Why wouldn't we discuss her you're making these posts in service to her so it's on topic

It's clear you don't care about Walter you just want to avenge Wendy.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why wouldn't we discuss her you're making these posts in service to her so it's on topic

Sorry. My post for Walter is for the hoping toward a interesting different playstyle of Walter.

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You must think bramble husks and spears are the same item.

No idea what you mean here. If they all could work what's the matter? 

Or did you think "we have bramble husk why we still need spear"?

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Steorra said:

No idea what you mean here. If they all could work what's the matter? 

Or did you think "we have bramble husk why we still need spear"?

You said defensive tactic and offensive tactics is the same.

 

Just now, Steorra said:

Sorry. My post for Walter is for the hoping toward a interesting different playstyle of Walter

Gaslighting the sequel eh?

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You said defensive tactic and offensive tactics is the same

This is still on the topic so I'd take it seriously.

They are same for "all of them could work".

If we have a cooldown for slowing effect (which is an imagination potential fixing for Walter's gameplay), I could simply slowing the bee armies for a precisely hitting later by using ignition ammos. And this may ignite the bee queen, and might not.

Once I confirm that the Queen is gonna to die in 40 seconds, I would stop to ignite the bee armies and run into a forest I prepared, equip scale armor and ignite the forest. Bee armies would fearing to come closer and I could have a window to kill the Queen remotely (drops are safe) without bothered by bees. (The Queen would stop go after players once she at her phase IV)

[Yaorin yon]

34 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

 

It's clear you don't care about Walter you just want to avenge Wendy.

Why do you look like you have hatred towards another player who is giving feedback? Are you feeling too nervous and in need of rest?

[Mysterious box]

27 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This is still on the topic so I'd take it seriously.

They are same for "all of them could work".

If we have a cooldown for slowing effect (which is an imagination potential fixing for Walter's gameplay), I could simply slowing the bee armies for a precisely hitting later by using ignition ammos. And this may ignite the bee queen, and might not.

Once I confirm that the Queen is gonna to die in 40 seconds, I would stop to ignite the bee armies and run into a forest I prepared, equip scale armor and ignite the forest. Bee armies would fearing to come closer and I could have a window to kill the Queen remotely (drops are safe) without bothered by bees. (The Queen would stop go after players once she at her phase IV)

No your intentions made it clear you weren't taking this topic seriously despite me giving you the benefit of the doubt and it's clear to those who have engaged that this is just to push a narrative rather than actually help Walter which is disappointing. Is there room to discuss Walter? Yes but that clearly wasn't your goal and shouting into the void won't change that.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

shouting

No idea. I'm just answer your debating which is still relative the topic. You seems more like "shouting" than me tbh, which made a nice sarcasm here.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No idea. I'm just answer your debating which is still relative the topic. You seems more like "shouting" than me tbh, which made a nice sarcasm here.

If you say so but I think our conversation is done here ill intent saw to it.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If you say so but I think our conversation is done here ill intent saw to it.

It seems once you cannot give your debating again to others evidence, you simply starting accusation here. The discussion seems couldn't continue here and I still have no idea why the ignition strategy toward Bee Queen was such triggering for you. 

Though I could understand if you are lack of the knowledge of the ignition strategy toward Bee Queen, just like I'm lack of knowledge of details of Walter. If the argument was based here, well... By language issue it's tired for me to explanation more about the details, but in case you need it -

https://b23.tv/ejQ8nDk

This is the details of who do the fire strategy to Bee Queen by Wilson. This is the best strategy for Wilson at the current stage.

https://b23.tv/Tf65NXI

This is another method to fight BQ with fire. You could using scale armor for non-Willow but you have to concern your temperature.

 

My original intention of the ignition rounds idea was "fun" and "it's gunpowder". And my ideas about the potential fixing toward BQ issue was already explained above.

Hoping these two videos could be valuable for you.

 

1 hour ago, Danila6300 said:

Not everyone is afraid of fire and the fear of losing things is very great. 

The ignition strategy to control clockwork bishop is still an impactful strategy for Ruin cleaning. It won't be completely useless ngl, especially when it is a remote effect with AoE ability.

[Mysterious box]

You know what I'm keeping this conversation dropped no point in engaging in obvious trolling.