Give Ghastly experience The Player tag

[DVGMedia]

The roles that items play in abbys tree Are usually pretty simple. Potions are Items that are ment to make abby more surviviable without her dying

The sisturn is ment to reduce the downtime of abigail  making it so abigail levels up faster when there are petals within the sisturn.

Right now Ghastly experience basically does what the sisturns job is which is to reduce the pentalty of having abigail die When potions are ment to prolong the life of an abigail.

And sisturn 3 Reduces the damage of abigail against bosses. Something that a potion should do.

So i say we should make it so Ghastly now provides the player tag for abby for the duration of either a day or half (4-8minutes)
I think it should be a super potion so that it can still keep its (nerf) with healing but allow for more potion synergy
Can even make it unique with the wreath to make it so players can experience a ghastly experience that Turns the player into a ghost for 10 seconds. Kind of like a role reversal. It turns abby to player while player turns to a ghost.
allowing them to traverse obstacles
This can also provide synergy with vengful spirit alllowing for both wendy and abby to attack the same creautures for that time frame

While sisturn 3 gets replaced with Petal power Making it so that all abbys get a minor buff based on what petals are inside the sisturn.
Each of these can stack but need a whole new sisturn to have them enabled.

Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides small Umbralla effect around it and gives abigail a 300hp boost
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail boosted stats in the dark
Lune - Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail a Sanity aura (6.6)
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Dusk Damage During Day
Cactus flower - Sisturn  (I really don't know what it should do its rare and last not long)  Gives abigail Bone armor effect

Can even make ghastly be a super potion so it keeps the nerfed player tag healing it has now. 

But it should also be usable for the wreath for the aformentioned synergy

[Bumber64]

If it's not a super elixir, you can't use the other non-healing ones with it. This is also a straight up nerf because you don't even get half healing. (The ghastly experience method of healing involves neglecting Abi until she dies. The experience is as ghastly as advertised, I guess.)

If it's a super, then you can't cancel it without another super (which you likely won't have access to).

[DVGMedia]

8 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

If it's not a super elixir, you can't use the other non-healing ones with it. This is also straight up a nerf because you don't even get half healing. (The ghastly method of healing involves neglecting Abi until she dies. Not nice, Wendy.)

If it's a super, then you can't cancel it without another super (which you likely won't have access to).

I thought about that and now just thinking that is kind of what makes the other elixers balanced aswell. Cant have multiple applied at the same time.
And having a Double hp double regen abby in bosses should be enough to take care of most of them without needing to heal anyway. So it provides that choice. without causing other restrictions. Some bosses it can be useful in others don't really need it since have better options. It allows for diversity in the way wendy plays.

Because healing abby right now with sisturn 3  makes it basically the same as if she didn't have the player tag. And well unsummoning makes it go faster.
But like can just get the same with healing abby normally and not unsummoning. while just reapplying the potion when done.

It provides way more utiltiy being a potion though. since the player can choose when to use it or not in a much easier manner than the sisturn.

[Siren11]

9 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

If it's not a super elixir, you can't use the other non-healing ones with it. This is also a straight up nerf because you don't even get half healing. (The ghastly experience method of healing involves neglecting Abi until she dies. The experience is as ghastly as advertised, I guess.)

If it's a super, then you can't cancel it without another super (which you likely won't have access to).

This is my exact problem with making the player tag a potion. It currently seems designed to help intermediate players learn how to manage Abigail in boss fights in a more forgiving way, but this would completely ruin that. Also, players at that level almost certainly wouldn’t have access to the other super potions, so it would be a massive nerf no matter how you look at it.

Even if the current design of the Sisturn skills isn’t the most elegant, I really, really don’t like this suggestion.

[DVGMedia]

9 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

This is my exact problem with making the player tag a potion. It currently seems designed to help intermediate players learn how to manage Abigail in boss fights in a more forgiving way, but this would completely ruin that.

How would the potion ruin that? It would be a much better suggestion that fits within the balanceing abby and wendy already have since wendy already needs to choose which potions are good for which situations
It gives more leeway to see how abby gets affected by a fight.
and it goes perfect with alot of the benefits. Like for celestial champion since player doesn't really work there its better to use the speed potion so can better position abby?

For beequeen its better to use nostrom because the offense is better against the grumbles than the defense.

playertag would be useful against nightmare and also fuelweaver providing more time for the player since abby doesn't need nostrum.  And the player would have a better time to heal abby.
This would be a nerf to the concept of playertag itself yeah.
But it would make it much more access able without it eating into other parts of the wendy gameplay standards.

[Koomin]

Give moleworms the player tag and remove the nerf to their vision 

[Siren11]

8 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

How would the potion ruin that? It would be a much better suggestion that fits within the balanceing abby and wendy already have since wendy already needs to choose which potions are good for which situations
It gives more leeway to see how abby gets affected by a fight.
and it goes perfect with alot of the benefits. Like for celestial champion since player doesn't really work there its better to use the speed potion so can better position abby?

For beequeen its better to use nostrom because the offense is better against the grumbles than the defense.

playertag would be useful against nightmare and also fuelweaver providing more time for the player since abby doesn't need nostrum.  And the player would have a better time to heal abby.
This would be a nerf to the concept of playertag itself yeah.
But it would make it much more access able without it eating into other parts of the wendy gameplay standards.

Player tag currently still allows you to use Abby as normal, so you can practice best potions and positioning, etc. when you’re learning fights without having to worry about another potion getting in the way. Unless it’s a super, that would take up your one slot and you wouldn’t be able to experiment.

It’s a bit better if it is a super, but newer players run into the same issue of not being able to get rid of the player tag. It’s actually worse than it is currently since they won’t have any way of being able to override it with another potion so they’ll just have to wait it out, whereas now they can just take the Lune Blossoms out of the Sisturn whenever.

Also, Wendy’s skill tree should probably just receive final tweaks and bug fixes at this point rather than large changes.

[Debruh]

I guess that could work? Managing elixirs is a part of Wendy, and this would change the skill from designed for beginners, to a more general skill.

Though, getting forget me lots is a lot less interesting than lune blossoms, as well as easier, but ig that's made up for in the fact that you can't use player tag and any healing at the same time. Lune blossoms feel like an alignment thing anyways.

Idrc ig, and I highly doubt Klei would implement this. But I don't think I would mind it much

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Player tag currently still allows you to use Abby as normal, so you can practice best potions and positioning, etc. when you’re learning fights without having to worry about another potion getting in the way. Unless it’s a super, that would take up your one slot and you wouldn’t be able to experiment.

It’s a bit better if it is a super, but newer players run into the same issue of not being able to get rid of the player tag. It’s actually worse than it is currently since they won’t have any way of being able to override it with another potion so they’ll just have to wait it out, whereas now they can just take the Lune Blossoms out of the Sisturn whenever.

Also, Wendy’s skill tree should probably just receive final tweaks and bug fixes at this point rather than large changes.

It is a nerf for sure but it is one I think people would be happy with. since No longer will this effect be tied to the sisturn. It would now be available whenever wendy wants it. Which i think makes it much better.

 

[DVGMedia]

52 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Player tag currently still allows you to use Abby as normal, so you can practice best potions and positioning, etc. when you’re learning fights without having to worry about another potion getting in the way. Unless it’s a super, that would take up your one slot and you wouldn’t be able to experiment.

 

Plus if it was a super. The potion would not last very long  Im honestly thinking of making it   be between 4-8 minutes.  thats enough time for it to be useful. Without the need of having to manage the sisturn. It solves all the problems That the sisturn creates.
And it should make sense to have the ability to choose between what super elixer the player wants since the only supers are the affinities.

This would be a perfect way to give players a bonus when they need it and as they get better at the game They won't need it.

[YouKnowWho142]

we discussed this in my topic and I think it's a fairly enjoyable idea. Ghastly experience doesn't feel good to me for a lot of reasons, but I'm especially not a fan of how it breaks the format of previous elixirs by being instant use and also that it encourages Abi to die (why would Wendy let Abigail die in combat over and over? She gets upset whenever it happens so it doesn't make a lot of sense to encourage it)

At the very bare minimum, the ghastly experience should bring Abigail to level three over the course of 1-2 minutes instead of instantly. I still don't like it that much, but it at least adds actual consequences to Abigail's deaths. I get that it's a nerf either way, but if you want spammy summons then that is entirely what Maxwell is made for, and even Willow to some extent, it really shouldn't be the way you're encouraged to play Wendy

I generally agree with the original post most of all, and if the concern is that putting it in the super elixir slot would force you to wait it out then either a shorter timer (as mentioned above) is perfectly acceptable or an even more exotic option being an interaction to cleanse whatever elixirs Abigail currently has enabled (potentially through the basket?). Even then, I cannot imagine a lot of situations in which you would need the player tag removed immediately following the end of a fight (which is presumably how long you would want the elixir to be active for). Arguing you can just take the blossoms out of the sistern doesn't work either since you would need to go out of your way to do it, and in some cases it would take longer to go back to the sistern and do that than to just wait it out

[Pig Princess]

14 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

So i say we should make it so Ghastly now provides the player tag for abby for the duration of the day.

 

14 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Can even make it unique with the wreath to make it so players can experience a ghastly experience that Turns the player for a ghost for 10 seconds. Kind of like a role reversal. It turns abby to player while player turns to a ghost.
allowing them to traverse obstacles
This can also provide synergy with vengful spirit alllowing for both wendy and abby to attack the same creautures for that time frame

This is actually a clever solution, I like it a lot. It may be not perfect, because player tag logic is inconsistent for some bosses/attacks and it's very obscure mechanic, but I like general direction. It could be just 50% damage reduction for simplicity, and in vast majority of cases player wouldn't even notice without specifically looking into code or searching through forums, so disguise would be good enough. It seems to me much more elegant solution compared to what we have now.

14 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

While sisturn 3 gets replaced with Petal power Making it so that all abbys get a minor buff based on what petals are inside the sisturn.
Each of these can stack but need a whole new sisturn to have them enabled.

Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides water to nearby farm tiles and gives abigail an aura of sandstorm immunity
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail boosted stats in the dark
Lune - Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail Lunar-tag Planar damage
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Shadow-tag Planar damage

I wish there was a way to partially agree to the post, as there are too many times when suggestion has really cool thing but I can't agree with it fully, so I either don't react to it at all and contribute to underrating suggetion, or put a reaction and contribute to overrating. 

I think sisturn III needs to bring back the latest version of overheal, i.e. the one where it was 600 hp for 5 minutes with ability to "hitch" Abigail to sisturn. 5 minutes is not much and I liked time managment - I think skill was perfect - but if whole kit is absolutely not an option, it could be hp that is drained after initial 600 like some suggestions proposed, or it could be instant but consume petals, in which case it could have cooldown to prevent abuse when one throws Abigail at enemies while just sitting near sisturn and spamming flowers.

As for flower effects, I think it needs to replace sisturn II effect (because it's redundant and inconsequential, also not very interesting mechanically), and sisturn I should allow to use all kind of petals without their special effects in addition to current effect (spoilage slowdown in sisturn), just for convenience sake (personally, if I needed regular sisturn effect for some reason, I would use dark petals that are byproduct of decorated graves, lune tree blossoms because I might want to chop them anyway for alive moon moth and ferns in the caves).

I disagree with special abilities as well. 

There is no need for lightbulbs to be an option anyway, but whatever, it's not the biggest disagreement of mine and it's fairly inconsequential as long as light radius is still small and doesn't replace normal light sources;

Succulent providing water is thematically weird, especially since in real life they don't produce extra water, they cut water evaporation and are fit to retrive existing water from soil from larger/deeper area, but sandstorm protection looks nice.

Ferns, however, would be more fitting to provide water to farms. Ferns don't produce extra water either, but they at least prefer damp places and fern-decorated sisturn fits to be the center of damp garden. It could also prevent plants from withering in very small area around it (similar in area to icy circle around crystalliser, so around 0.75-1 tile range), but not from wildfires, and increase player moisture while standing near it (for thematic reasons and niche uses, and as a downside). Interestingly enough, I came to this idea with moisture for farms independently, but for ferns, but decided not to create separate post just for that as it's unlikely to be implemented. 

Lune trees could just produce alive moon moth occasionally (1-4 per day with 2-4 as maximum present at the same time?) or make nearby lune trees produce them (1 per day with 1 maximum per tree?), as well as produce 4-8 lune tree blossoms over the time blossoms in sisturn spoil. Those moth would return to trees/sisturn after a while like regular butterflies return to flowers, so they won't lead to moth remnants passively accumulating, but could be nice for lights out and shadow affinity, as well as general source of moon moth/their wings for anything (niche crafts and filler). I don't like how they could be used as very cheap sanity, so maybe those moth could actually drop wings only on murder action, but not as the result of attack? But I like the idea of alive moth being more accessible, and idea of them flying around sisturn and in the garden for aesthetic sake, especially at night, so I'll leave the suggestion as is. Lune tree blossoms spawning would be nice for recycling, just for the sake of QoL of not needing to obtain more flowers if one just wants generic sisturn effects (an option to trigger overheal, small sanity aura and 4x multiplier on Abigail levelling up after death) and aesthetics.

Edit: actually alive moon moth would not be just QoL for generic effects and aesthetics. One option is to give up on QoL status, and another - to make butterflies purely visual effect, and just keep blossoms spawn for true QoL.

Dark petals could ward off gestalts in small radius like shadow items lying on the ground now do. It would be useful to cooking at kitchen/be on boat in peace during moonstorms, but since sisturn is a structure, i.e. doesn't move and can be easily destroyed, one would need other means for dealing with gestalts in enlighement areas during boss fights. Technically you could rebuild it for moonstorm minigame, but from my experience vision reduction and slowdown without protecting gear are the main obstacle anyway,so it won't replace this gear.

I know petal suggestion might be perceived as overkill, as one more nonsence from Wendy player (although she is actually one character I play alongside Wormwood and others), or even too weak and inconsequential, which is why I didn't write separate post with suggestion. 

But I really like the idea of different petals giving different effects, and those effects being fairly small but useful. 

[DaDa_waw]

14 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

This can also provide synergy with vengful spirit alllowing for both wendy and abby to attack the same creautures for that time frame

While sisturn 3 gets replaced with Petal power Making it so that all abbys get a minor buff based on what petals are inside the sisturn.
Each of these can stack but need a whole new sisturn to have them enabled.

Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides water to nearby farm tiles and gives abigail an aura of sandstorm immunity
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail boosted stats in the dark
Lune - Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail Lunar-tag Planar damage
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Shadow-tag Planar damage

Can even make ghastly be a super potion so it keeps the nerfed player tag healing it has now. 

But it should also be usable for the wreath for the aformentioned synergy

I love these parts so much
The adjustment of the potion enhances the synergistic effect, which is cool
And the part about Sisturn is very, very interesting, and I have been looking forward to someone continuing to mention it (there should be, but I didn't pay attention or show such excitement).
I have seen something similar a long time ago, and I hope the author doesn't mind if I post this part. It is located at the end of the article. If you mind, you can tell me to delete this part.

 

 

[DVGMedia]

8 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

There is no need for lightbulbs to be an option anyway, but whatever, it's not the biggest disagreement of mine and it's fairly inconsequential as long as light radius is still small and doesn't replace normal light sources;

I would say 2 turf tiles. Thats the same amount of light the astral detector makes. But that would be light thats on the sisturn like how the sisturn provides sanity with petals.

The effects of each "petals" Can be adjusted to fit better with balance  My main focus is the lightbulbs. Cause i feel a bigger light radius abby would have alot of utility.

I feel like these are changes that are doable within the patches. And it doesn't create much chaos while making the items created for the skill tree follow the Standard balancing aspects of each of the items.

Potions help keep abby alive. While sisturn helps abby to recover.

I kind of like the idea of making the sisturn  be what restores abby back to lvl 3 if the player rests abby there

 

[DVGMedia]

On 1/30/2025 at 4:02 AM, Pig Princess said:

I think it needs to replace sisturn II effect (because it's redundant and inconsequential,

Wendys base sanity loss is actually pretty nice. even though sometimes forget it exists. But cutting that down in half  actually is a pretty crazy quality of life.  It almost makes it on par with walters base.

 

 

On 1/30/2025 at 4:02 AM, Pig Princess said:

think sisturn III needs to bring back the latest version of overheal, i.e. the one where it was 600 hp for 5 minutes with ability to "hitch" Abigail to sisturn.

I don't think we should reintroduce that.  However i think it would be better to apply that to one of the petals Making abby more healthy just a mini buff in hp to maybe 900
Since would be able to stack that with the potion.

[Steorra]

22 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Wendys base sanity loss is actually pretty nice. even though sometimes forget it exists. But cutting that down in half  actually is a pretty crazy quality of life.  It almost makes it on par with walters base.

But it invalid the BQ crown.

For the side nerfing effect of Sisturn III, at least we could remove those lune blossoms from the Sisturn by manuel.

But once you learnt Sisturn II, your BQ crown become lesser effect and you cannot turn the effect of Sisturn II off.

(the crown could cover the sanity loss for other characters when fighting AFW, but could not for Wendy without skill tree. The sisturn II would only makes the thing become worse.)

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

(the crown could cover the sanity loss for other characters when fighting AFW, but could not for Wendy without skill tree. The sisturn II would only makes the thing become worse.)

its a trade off yeah but the passive in itself out weighs it.  since you won't need to gain sanity as much or reverse negate it when the effect is only 50%

I thought it activated when the sisturn was filled? I thought thats what it did

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I thought it activated when the sisturn was filled?

I can't recall it detailedly since I have no computer these days, I'm sorry. 

Though the sisturnIII would still helps a lot for AFW combat, I guess most ppl would prefer to fill the Sisturn for this combat...

[Yaorin yon]

I like this, I don't think there's any other purer way of expression

[IAmAFurrz]

much more interesting than making sisturn's gimmick pointless with the current GE so i agree

[Steorra]

The thing that to make GE with player tag become a supur potion is pretty good. It would make it become invalid when you want to use Cursed Vex. This was an idea I was mentioned before with sisturn mechanic but not potion, but all of them have a same aim - to ensure Cursed Vex being paradoxical to player tag. And if this happened, the healing nerf would be never needed. The cursed vex nerf is already enough for it.

[DVGMedia]

This topic has been coming up again so i think it would be good to bump it to see the original idea again.

[CremeLover]

On 1/29/2025 at 8:31 PM, DVGMedia said:

The roles that items play in abbys tree Are usually pretty simple. Potions are Items that are ment to make abby more surviviable without her dying

The sisturn is ment to reduce the downtime of abigail  making it so abigail levels up faster when there are petals within the sisturn.

Right now Ghastly experience basically does what the sisturns job is which is to reduce the pentalty of having abigail die When potions are ment to prolong the life of an abigail.

And sisturn 3 Reduces the damage of abigail against bosses. Something that a potion should do.

So i say we should make it so Ghastly now provides the player tag for abby for the duration of either a day or half (4-8minutes)
I think it should be a super potion so that it can still keep its (nerf) with healing but allow for more potion synergy
Can even make it unique with the wreath to make it so players can experience a ghastly experience that Turns the player into a ghost for 10 seconds. Kind of like a role reversal. It turns abby to player while player turns to a ghost.
allowing them to traverse obstacles
This can also provide synergy with vengful spirit alllowing for both wendy and abby to attack the same creautures for that time frame

While sisturn 3 gets replaced with Petal power Making it so that all abbys get a minor buff based on what petals are inside the sisturn.
Each of these can stack but need a whole new sisturn to have them enabled.

Bulbs - Sisturn and abigail glow brighter
Succulent - Sisturn provides small Umbralla effect around it and gives abigail a 300hp boost
Ferns - Sisturn will grow some random shrooms around itself and gives abigail boosted stats in the dark
Lune - Sisturn has an increased sanity aura (75 PM) and gives abigail a Sanity aura (6.6)
Evil - Sisturn has a massively decreased sanity aura (-75 PM) and gives abigail Dusk Damage During Day
Cactus flower - Sisturn  (I really don't know what it should do its rare and last not long)  Gives abigail Bone armor effect

Can even make ghastly be a super potion so it keeps the nerfed player tag healing it has now. 

But it should also be usable for the wreath for the aformentioned synergy

Is an interesting idea, however, there are a few things that I dislike.

First of all, the crafting recipe for the existing potion. Forget-me-lot is supposed to be a word play, since the skill and item description is to "remind abigail of what she can be". So if this were to become a potion, I would suggest a change in recipe. Red Gem that is associated with life could work, but probably not the best choice, and can't think of what would be appropiate.

For drinking the potion to traverse obstacles, I made a suggestion for a similar power for Wendy, but with the purpose of it being less resource intensive to access, which is something that is severely lacking in Wendy's skill tree. The wreath is another issue that is both overloaded with effects and underwhelming an offuscating to use in many of these effects, not only in power but also disinsentivize quick swapping items, which is something that is a staple for most players.

The sisturn 3... this skill has gone so many revisions at this point is hard to even say what it should do, but I would like it to be a skill that is not overloaded with effects, like the wreath, but does a simple thing and does it effectively. The easiest and most straightforward solution is allow you to access a level 4, as the sisturn only purpose was to increase the level of Abigail faster, but I doubt we would be getting something like that.

The only other effect I could think of would be to make it so Abigail instantly goes back to max health after dying after sacrificying all flowers, but that would be tricky if there's more than one Wendy on the server.

If we were to change it, I would ask something that gives Abigail the ability to adquire a passive buff, and this buff would dissapear after death, as this is the way sisturn and regular Abigail works before skilltree. It has no purpose when Abigail is at max level, and makes Abigail powerup faster when she isn't, so it should empower Abigail.

I really don't like having to juggle all these resources to access temporary buffs, this is not the way her original design was supposed to be.

[DVGMedia]

13 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

I really don't like having to juggle all these resources to access temporary buffs, this is not the way her original design was supposed to be.

Her original DST design kind of was that though except for resources she carried multiple abby flowers since each one had their own timer. could just have abby die and respawn her imediately.
They changed it so now abby was more durable but only had the 1 life so instead of carrying flowers the player now carried elixers to help keep that 1 abby alive.

[CremeLover]

4 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Her original DST design kind of was that though except for resources she carried multiple abby flowers since each one had their own timer. could just have abby die and respawn her imediately.
They changed it so now abby was more durable but only had the 1 life so instead of carrying flowers the player now carried elixers to help keep that 1 abby alive.

Yup, summon rushing, you could just carry 4 in your inventory and never have to grind again.

I consider having their own "full health" Abigails that refresh themselves not really a constant resource grind, since is something you only do once per flower, similar to Wanda's watches in a way, whereas the sisturn buffs are more akin to flingomatics, though less resource intensive.

After her rework, this pocket fully healed Abigail was changed for potion consumables and a sisturn you had to fill to get full effect. The improved controls for her rework were amaizing and totally worth the trade, but in a vacuum, I prefer the summon rush gameplay over the grind for consumables and global structures gameplay.

Heck, the strat for Wurt's merm king is usually to let it die and get a new one rather than maintaining it, and Wurt's own quotes support this when she says is better to get a new one.

Anyways, sorry for ramble, but TL;DR, I disagree.
Pocket fully healed Abigail ≠ temporary buff