I don't quite understand the nerf on healings for player tag Abigail

[DaDa_waw]

18 minutes ago, Koomin said:

These Wortox statements are not really accurate at all.  

Restoring sanity from releasing souls is used for a ton of other stuff besides replacing lost sanity from eating souls.  It absolutely is used in normal gameplay all the time.  It is useful in boss battles for sanity drain and to recover sanity in everyday life since sanity food works worse on him.  Why did you say it's not necessary in everyday life?  It's really odd to declare that a normal part of a character's abilities is "not really necessary", but then be so upset when a normal part of Wendy's thing is changed.

Losing the sanity restoration is a really really large downside that is added by going naughty, and misconstruing that is definitely not going to help your point.

In my own experience, I have never had a need for mental recovery. At the same time, I have seriously asked players who have been using Wotuox continuously for 8000 days, and they have never encountered this problem in their experience before, even more so than me

Restoring her spirit with her soul is truly a luxury, just an optional addition, and Spectral Cure All is Wendy's only guarantee. I don't understand how they can be equal

[Koomin]

10 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I'm sorry? But it seems people could say both of that "to lost sanity when eating souls is Wortox downside" and "to lost sanity recovering when releasing souls is new downside of Wortox" now. I'm sorry but I don't think this is logical enough.

 

Haha it does sound weird but it is actually very true.  It is really helpful on a character to have control over your sanity in both the upwards and downwards direction.  Eating souls to help become less sane is useful for farming nightmare fuel for example.  It is also really helpful to have a way to regain sanity for more obvious reasons (boss fights, everyday sanity loss).

It's similar to Wormwood, where it is really nice that you can make your sanity go down if you want (chop trees or something) or up (plant seeds).

It is why I think nice Wortox bonus is so much stronger than naughty Wortox - the increased sanity loss and gain is really nice, as opposed to losing them both entirely which is a really big downside.

Hopefully that makes sense?  For what it is worth I think the downside is fun and the fact that there is the trade to consider is a cool design, but it is definitely a big downside that is introduced as part of his skill tree.

15 minutes ago, Steorra said:

 

I would keep my doubts until I have chance to test it myself but if the thing you post worked fine as they said, it seems ok.

But the lune blossoms is still inconvenient tbh. I hope it could last longer than current stage.

Cool yea let me if what you find is different - otherwise yes I too think it seems ok.

I agree with the lune blossoms lasting longer, that seems like annoyance reduction.

6 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

I'm not sure if you've actually played Wortox. The sanity recovery from releasing a soul is only 2.5, while a half-effect +15 sanity food would recover three times the sanity for Wortox compared to releasing a soul. Of course, for the naughty Wortox, obtaining and storing souls is very easy, making it a new "disadvantage." However, before Wortox gets the skill tree, releasing souls at full health to provide sanity recovery is not a wise choice. Even if you release 20 souls, you can only recover 50 sanity points, which is far less than the value of those 20 souls in terms of movement and consumption. The sanity recovery from releasing souls is just an added bonus for healing before the skill tree. If you mainly rely on releasing souls to recover sanity before the skill tree, I assure you that you will encounter misfortune.

This is definitely not true.  I'm usually not going to go out of my way to cook a sanity food to get 7.5 sanity when I could release 3 souls.  I have used it very often before the skill tree, and rest assured that I did not encounter misfortune, and this is an opinion that many share.

If you want examples of it in use in other situations, you can search videos of Wortox fuelweaver fights.

9 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

In my own experience, I have never had a need for mental recovery. At the same time, I have seriously asked players who have been using Wotuox continuously for 8000 days, and they have never encountered this problem in their experience before, even more so than me

 

You have never needed to recover sanity?  That seems... Unlikely

[DaDa_waw]

7 minutes ago, Koomin said:

 

You have never needed to recover sanity?  That seems... Unlikely

I mean through soul recovery. You know, 2.5 has very little spirit, but the role of the soul is much greater than 2.5. For example, if I use my soul to collect cacti, I will quickly collect a large number of cacti that can restore spirit, far more than releasing the soul

10 minutes ago, Koomin said:

 

You have never needed to recover sanity?  That seems... Unlikely

And using my soul to help me kill the walrus, from then on I have a beret that can infinitely restore a lot of spirit

[Koomin]

9 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

This perspective holds true for multiplayer games; however, in single-player games, the naughty tendency overwhelmingly outperforms the nice tendency, as the effects of being nice offer minimal assistance in solo gameplay.

Yes I agree with that - specifically the nice skill points are mostly useless for solo and you can't really choose it.   I'm just referring to the nice and naughty alignments, where the nice one is stronger in both solo and multiplayer.

8 minutes ago, DaDa_waw said:

I mean through soul recovery. You know, 2.5 has very little spirit, but the role of the soul is much greater than 2.5. For example, if I use my soul to collect cacti, I will quickly collect a large number of cacti that can restore spirit, far more than releasing the soul

And using my soul to help me kill the walrus, from then on I have a beret that can infinitely restore a lot of spirit

You should give it a try - it is actually very useful even as neutral Wortox.

[Steorra]

29 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Haha it does sound weird but it is actually very true.  It is really helpful on a character to have control over your sanity in both the upwards and downwards direction.  Eating souls to help become less sane is useful for farming nightmare fuel for example.  It is also really helpful to have a way to regain sanity for more obvious reasons (boss fights, everyday sanity loss).

This is extremely strange for me. It sounds like to say "Wendy's sanity resistance is a downside actually since it do harm when you want to control your sanity by using sanity aura intended. (Including bee crown)"

And I have no idea why 2.5 sanity recover per soul does matter when foods are far more easier cheaper for experienced players like you. If it does matter, then 3.4 sanity cost per hit would be a huge downside for Shadow Maul which makes its' bonus effect can match its cost& downside no more.

[SilverSpoon]

Abigail's player tag always works on all player taged attack.

On the other hand, healing potions don't always work because they can over-heal Abigail's MAX HP. (This happened a lot to me. I was too afraid to die Abigail, so I would un summon and heal her when her HP was below half.) In that sense healing amount has been halved is an improvement.

Also, with Sisturn III applied, for example, "Abigail dies in 3 hits, but you have margin 30 seconds to heal before dying." becomes "Abigail dies in 6 hits, but you have margin 60 seconds to heal before dying." This makes Abigail has twice as much margin to recover before she dies, so much easier to control. Also, the fact that Abigail now has more margin before her HP reaches the danger zone means she can focus on attacking during that time, and can use attack buff potions other than Spectral Cure-All, which I think also leads to an improvement in DPS.  

In conclusion, I really agree that Abigail only heals in half as long as she has a player tag, and I think it is very reasonable landing point. Sorry to disagree, my friends...

However, I'm not agree with that even opponents who don't apply player tags still get half the heal amount, and also to switch, I have to go back to a faraway base to do this, or set up Sisturns all over the map and carry easily spoil Lune Tree Blossoms around all the time.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

It seems you need to kill 60 killer bees without AOE to recover 150 sanity points. Each killer bee hive regenerates one bee every 15 seconds. If you only have the two nests next to the Queen Bee, you'd be waiting an average of 7.5 seconds for every 2.5 sanity points, which translates to 20/min. And Sisturn's sanity aura is 25/min. Well, there you have it, another reason why "Wendy is too strong," lol.

This is a poor comparison your talking about everyone gaining 25 sanity per minute for just standing near her structure vs Wortox actively fighting for sanity recovery and only being able to recover his own sanity. That structure even beats out other sanity recovery based abilities like Wes's party balloons or Walter's campfire stories which require the player to not move or talk during the story for just 10 sanity per minute and only when the conditions are met. Though in theory Wes's method can be the best but it requires 4 players willing to participate in the party effect.

[Koomin]

33 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

It seems you need to kill 60 killer bees without AOE to recover 150 sanity points. Each killer bee hive regenerates one bee every 15 seconds. If you only have the two nests next to the Queen Bee, you'd be waiting an average of 7.5 seconds for every 2.5 sanity points, which translates to 20/min. And Sisturn's sanity aura is 25/min. Well, there you have it, another reason why "Wendy is too strong," lol.

Sorry I'm confused by this- I don't think Sisturn is an issue for what that's worth.  And for the souls thing I've generally found that it comes in handy not as a way to fully recover 150 sanity, but more that while wandering around for the day if you have ~2-3 extra souls you pick up you can negate sanity drain for the day.  Or if you are about to go insane and don't want to right then, drop a few souls.  And also during boss fights it is much more useful, but that is more obvious.  While dropping 20 souls for healing throughout the fight, you also get a free 50 sanity, which is usually enough to counteract a bunch of sanity drain during the fight.

 

23 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This is extremely strange for me. It sounds like to say "Wendy's sanity resistance is a downside actually since it do harm when you want to control your sanity by using sanity aura intended. (Including bee crown)"

And I have no idea why 2.5 sanity recover per soul does matter when foods are far more easier cheaper for experienced players like you. If it does matter, then 3.4 sanity cost per hit would be a huge downside for Shadow Maul which makes its' bonus effect can match its cost& downside no more.

Wendy's is a bit different since it's so hard to intentionally use (besides the bee queen crown thing you mentioned, which actually is a bit annoying).  I can't use a sanity aura minor increase/decrease to quickly change my sanity value like I can by eating a pile of souls.  They also just added the evil flower thing that reverses the sisturn aura to an insanity one, since it's helpful to have control over your sanity like that like I've been saying.

 

Anyway - we have now discussed Wortox souls for like 10 posts in a Wendy thread and I'm not even super passionate about the topic anyway, so probably going to leave it here so as not to enrage people about derailing the thread.