To those who want to nerf abigail: what is it you want?

[Cdijk16]

1 hour ago, yinjiu019 said:

No, I don't have any feelings for them...
When dealing with some bosses, using and protecting Abigail may cause less damage than using Wes.
And the previous Lunar Abi didn't have this problem...
Since I had it before, why wouldn't I want her?

ヾ(≧へ≦)

This is just not true, Wendy attacking the same character as Abigail does far more damage than Wes and even does way more damage than a 1x damage multiplier character. For example, a Wendy with a War Saddle Ornery Beefalo attacking same target as Abigail does around double the damage of Wilson with a Ham Bat after factoring in Abigail's damage and has an AOE to boot.

Could you please specify which boss is it that having Abigail + Wendy does less damage than Wes?

[yinjiu019]

2 minutes ago, Cdijk16 said:

This is just not true, Wendy attacking the same character as Abigail does far more damage than Wes and even does way more damage than a 1x damage multiplier character. For example, a Wendy with a War Saddle Ornery Beefalo attacking same target as Abigail does around double the damage of Wilson with a Ham Bat after factoring in Abigail's damage and has an AOE to boot.

What I mean is that when facing certain bosses, in order to protect Abigail, I will do some actions that restrict my behavior.
Because of these actions, fighting with Abi is even worse than fighting alone.
Of course, only for some bosses (
This is an extreme example ww

[Cdijk16]

Just now, yinjiu019 said:

What I mean is that when facing certain bosses, in order to protect Abigail, I will do some actions that restrict my behavior.
Because of these actions, fighting with Abi is even worse than fighting alone.
Of course, only for some bosses (
This is an extreme example ww

Which bosses are these? I cant think of any actual examples of Wendy + Abigail being worse in terms of damage output than just Wendy.

[thesooz9000]

1 minute ago, Cdijk16 said:

Which bosses are these? I cant think of any actual examples of Wendy + Abigail being worse in terms of damage output than just Wendy.

Literally the only boss where I can imagine this being a thing is klaus, which no one has even mentioned lmao.

[Mike23Ua]

This thread will probably get locked, Klei seems unlikely to actually Nerf Wendy.

But sure I’ll explain here too: 

Abigail is as much of a Core Feature to Wendy, as Willows Lighters and Bernie are Core Features to Willow, Without Willows Lighter she can not collect Embers, Without Embers she has no Fire Mage Powers, Without her lighter & Bernie- Willows only core feature left is Immunity to fire damage.

Willows Lighters & Bernie have a Durability: They deplete, they need repairs or refueling, or you’ll need to craft new ones.

Why does Wendy get to endlessly summon Abigail even if she has managed to have gotten her killed 15,000 times in a span of 5 minutes?

When I ask for Wendy nerfs: I compare her side by side to the OTHER 17 playable characters and I think to myself: Yeah… Abby needs a nerf.

Depletion Rate?, Cooldown use Timer?, Make the Wendy player actually have to work to get access to Abigail just as much as Willow has to work to keep lighters and Bernie.

But Klei seems unlikely to actually Nerf Wendy, cause they don’t want to stir up a hornets nest of angry so called “Wendy Mains”

[yinjiu019]

35 minutes ago, Cdijk16 said:

Which bosses are these? I cant think of any actual examples of Wendy + Abigail being worse in terms of damage output than just Wendy.

If you want to fight with Abi and Armored Bearger, your output time will be lower than if you fight alone. The same is true for some bosses with powerful range attacks, but this extreme situation probably won't happen.

Just now, yinjiu019 said:

If you want to fight with Abi and Armored Bearger, your output time will be lower than if you fight alone. The same is true for some bosses with powerful range attacks, but this extreme situation probably won't happen.

This is just an ordinary example, please don't take it too seriously. I also want to hear your opinions

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This thread will probably get locked, Klei seems unlikely to actually Nerf Wendy.

But sure I’ll explain here too: 

Abigail is as much of a Core Feature to Wendy, as Willows Lighters and Bernie are Core Features to Willow, Without Willows Lighter she can not collect Embers, Without Embers she has no Fire Mage Powers, Without her lighter & Bernie- Willows only core feature left is Immunity to fire damage.

Willows Lighters & Bernie have a Durability: They deplete, they need repairs or refueling, or you’ll need to craft new ones.

Why does Wendy get to endlessly summon Abigail even if she has managed to have gotten her killed 15,000 times in a span of 5 minutes?

When I ask for Wendy nerfs: I compare her side by side to the OTHER 17 playable characters and I think to myself: Yeah… Abby needs a nerf.

Depletion Rate?, Cooldown use Timer?, Make the Wendy player actually have to work to get access to Abigail just as much as Willow has to work to keep lighters and Bernie.

But Klei seems unlikely to actually Nerf Wendy, cause they don’t want to stir up a hornets nest of angry so called “Wendy Mains”

One Sewing Kit can restore more than 10,000 HP for BERNIE!, and you can have multiple BERNIE!s to fight for you.
When BERNIE! dies, I don't panic. And I still have fire magic.
And Abigail, when she dies, I can't use Sewing Kit to restore HP for Abigail.
So it's better to weaken Sewing Kit. (What)

Do you think it's OP just because you can summon a 1HP Abigail endlessly?
Very novel and interesting idea.
If I can only let myself stay still for a few seconds when BERNIE! dies to summon a 1HP BERNIE! that can restore HP slightly, maybe I'm invincible.
(*≧︶≦))(￣▽￣* )ゞ

Maybe Abigail's survivability should be improved, maybe?
There will always be someone who needs it.
My idea is that without the player interfering, Abigail can face bosses like Bearger together with Wendy, but after the battle Abigail will be badly hurt.
If the player actively controls Abi, it is even possible to make her not get hurt and not get hurt themselves.

[hyoton123]

50 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

Literally the only boss where I can imagine this being a thing is klaus, which no one has even mentioned lmao.

The klaus situation is increasingly odd the more i think about it. He’s worth killing every year and there is zero realistic way to use AOE abigail on him, probably ever unless she was changed to hex only.

[thesooz9000]

19 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

If you want to fight with Abi and Armored Bearger, your output time will be lower than if you fight alone. The same is true for some bosses with powerful range attacks, but this extreme situation probably won't happen.

This is just an ordinary example, please don't take it too seriously. I also want to hear your opinions

One Sewing Kit can restore more than 10,000 HP for BERNIE!, and you can have multiple BERNIE!s to fight for you.
When BERNIE! dies, I don't panic. And I still have fire magic.
And Abigail, when she dies, I can't use Sewing Kit to restore HP for Abigail.
So it's better to weaken Sewing Kit. (What)

Do you think it's OP just because you can summon a 1HP Abigail endlessly?
Very novel and interesting idea.
If I can only let myself stay still for a few seconds when BERNIE! dies to summon a 1HP BERNIE! that can restore HP slightly, maybe I'm invincible.
(*≧︶≦))(￣▽￣* )ゞ

Maybe Abigail's survivability should be improved, maybe?
There will always be someone who needs it.
My idea is that without the player interfering, Abigail can face bosses like Bearger together with Wendy, but after the battle Abigail will be badly hurt.
If the player actively controls Abi, it is even possible to make her not get hurt and not get hurt themselves.

This is a hilarious straw-man, it's obvious what mike23ua was referring to with their post was that there is no punishment for letting abigail die, but let's compare wendy and bernie, shall we?

Abigail has 600 HP, And with Blessed Sisturn III, And Spectral Cure-all, has an effective HP of almost 2000.

Abigail has Area Of Effect damage that is easily accessible day one.

Abigail's vex applies a damage buff to anyone attacking that target (Wendy Herself, Other Players).

Abigail can increase this damage bonus even more by using the vex potion.

Shadow Abigail skyrockets wendy's damage potential, up to wolfgang levels.

Abigail can be used to deaggro enemies.

Abigail can somewhat easily be controlled with team spirit commands

Abigail can be brought up to max HP/LVL in 8 seconds.

----------------

Bernie has 2600 HP at the max

He has 15 planar defense depending on which version you pick

Bernie can tank and take aggro for willow from enemies

Bernie Can be instantly repaired with a sewing kit.

Bernie can be lit on fire to deal increased damage.

Bernie takes aggro away from shadow creatures.

--------------

Doesn't seem like abigail's such a bad follower compared to bernie now..?

 

[yinjiu019]

3 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

This is a hilarious straw-man, it's obvious what mike23ua was referring to with their post was that there is no punishment for letting abigail die, but let's compare wendy and bernie, shall we?

Abigail has 600 HP, And with Blessed Sisturn III, And Spectral Cure-all, has an effective HP of almost 2000.

Abigail has Area Of Effect damage that is easily accessible day one.

Abigail's vex applies a damage buff to anyone attacking that target (Wendy Herself, Other Players).

Abigail can increase this damage bonus even more by using the vex potion.

Shadow Abigail skyrockets wendy's damage potential, up to wolfgang levels.

Abigail can be used to deaggro enemies.

Abigail can somewhat easily be controlled with team spirit commands

Abigail can be brought up to max HP/LVL in 8 seconds.

----------------

Bernie has 2600 HP at the max

He has 15 planar defense depending on which version you pick

Bernie can tank and take aggro for willow from enemies

Bernie Can be instantly repaired with a sewing kit.

Bernie can be lit on fire to deal increased damage.

Bernie takes aggro away from shadow creatures.

--------------

Doesn't seem like abigail's such a bad follower compared to bernie now..?

 

But Abigail's death is sometimes fatal.
If you want to say that her resurrection is only slightly more difficult than BERNIE!, then it may be true.
But I don't want her to die. Resurrecting her will waste a lot of time, and if she can't last long, it won't solve the substantive problem at all.
And BERNIE! doesn't seem to be necessary in most cases when fighting bosses.
And the loss of Abigail is huge.

=￣ω￣=

[thesooz9000]

1 minute ago, yinjiu019 said:

But Abigail's death is sometimes fatal.
If you want to say that her resurrection is only slightly more difficult than BERNIE!, then it may be true.
But I don't want her to die. Resurrecting her will waste a lot of time, and if she can't last long, it won't solve the substantive problem at all.
And BERNIE! doesn't seem to be necessary in most cases when fighting bosses.
And the loss of Abigail is huge.

=￣ω￣=

The loss of abigail is not "huge" when you have potions that bring her right back up to full HP, The ability to command abigail to dodge attacks and the ability to tank FOR abigail.

Please explain what you need Wbigail to do for her to have so much survive-ability.

[Lardee]

5 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

And BERNIE! doesn't seem to be necessary in most cases when fighting bosses.
And the loss of Abigail is huge.

=￣ω￣=

Exactly. So stop comparing Abigail to Bernie purely based on HP.

Bernie is tankier because he brings way less to the table than Abigail.

[yinjiu019]

6 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

The loss of abigail is not "huge" when you have potions that bring her right back up to full HP, The ability to command abigail to dodge attacks and the ability to tank FOR abigail.

Please explain what you need Wbigail to do for her to have so much survive-ability.

5 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Exactly. So stop comparing Abigail to Bernie purely based on HP.

Bernie is tankier because he brings way less to the table than Abigail.

I'm sorry...
I will use wes obediently
I don't deserve a better gaming experience...
Really, I'm sorry...

[thesooz9000]

1 minute ago, yinjiu019 said:

I'm sorry...
I will use wes obediently
I don't deserve a better gaming experience...
Really, I'm sorry...

Yes, you will use wes, yes, you will like it.

[yinjiu019]

2 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

Yes, you will use wes, yes, you will like it.

In other words, you admit what I said above?
Admit that I don't deserve a better gaming experience?＞﹏＜

[thesooz9000]

2 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

In other words, you admit what I said above?
Admit that I don't deserve a better gaming experience?＞﹏＜

yesss, abigail should have 0.001 HP and deal 2 dmg per minute.

[Mike23Ua]

Wickerbottom who has yet to be given a skill tree yet is seen as one of the most OP characters in the game: But let’s compare The Mighty Wickerbottom to Wendy & Abigail shall we?

Wickerbottkms entire “core features” revolve around going all over the constant to gather *Spell Books* these books when read and used- Require Wickerbottom to use her Sanity, when Wickerbottom is too low on Sanity, she can’t read these spell books AND they deplete in durability each time you use them.

You can repair books by storing them in a bookshelf (I imagine this was Klei’s intentions behind leaving Abigail abandoned at a Sisturn to have her health go above the normal limits)

But without Wickerbottoms books & fiery pen, Who is she as a character? What stand out features does she have that makes her Better than Wendy without Abigail?

I try not to compare characters who have skill trees to characters who have yet to get a skill tree that’s why I use Wolfgang & Willow in my examples instead of Wickerbottom.

But you can literally sit down and name out the entire cast of playable characters: and they each will require you to actually put in “Effort” and work to not just get, but also KEEP your characters abilities going.

EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
Wendy however… Does Not.

As “OP” as people claim Wurt is.. what does Wurt have left when a Deerclops smashes through her Merm Kingdom breaking all her hard time consuming work of sitting up Amermories or whatever?

Ill tell you what she has: She has to pick up the rubble and start over.

Where is that with Wendy? 
Why do I need to place flower petals into a Sisturn at all?? 

Now if I needed at least ONE Sisturn on the map that’s being powered and active to summon Abigail.. well then things just got a whole Heck of a lot more interesting…

That Deerclops who leaves the OP Wurt to start over, now actively targets Wendys source of summoning Abigail.

(see Klei? I’m FAIR when I demand Wendy nerfs.)

[yinjiu019]

6 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

yesss, abigail should have 0.001 HP and deal 2 dmg per minute.

An interesting idea, perhaps it will allow those who think they can use the current abi to deal with most bosses to show off their superb operation.

Maybe they will like it

[JoeW]

Please keep posts polite and constructive. If you are not going to engage in the conversation in a meaningful way, please move to another topic. Thanks. 

[Evelo]

One of wendy's weaknesses is her dealing less damage. Abigail fixes this and gives a damage boost. Abigail is excellent at AoE especially when she can stun lock enemies. Abigail is less effective against bosses because she is not a single target specialist and cannot stun lock them either. Playing around Abigail's weakness to bosses is fun (for me). It makes her more unique compared to other characters as you have to actually manage the health of your follower (unlike Bernie who is meant to tank and does little damage, wurt and webber who can have infinite followers).

With Abigail gaining the player entity tag I did not expect her to be capable of tanking for so long. This gives wendy enough time to quickly kill most bosses before abigail dies. I do not like this at all as it made the core game play of protect Abigail and be smart about her positioning and when to have her active vs inactive is effectively removed.

Gestalt Abigail turns this on its head where she is excellent at boss killing but significantly less good at AoE situations. I was mostly fine with Gestalt Abigail in the 2nd iteration just turn the damage down somewhat and really really prolong the vex duration. After some consideration I enjoy how you are locked into Gestalt Abigail and can't switch willy nilly that way you have consequences for your decisions. You trade strengths.

Hope that makes sense in why I want Abigail's survival to be nerfed.

[yinjiu019]

8 minutes ago, JoeW said:

Please keep posts polite and constructive. If you are not going to engage in the conversation in a meaningful way, please move to another topic. Thanks. 

Since the respected JoeW is here, if you don't mind, why not also share your opinions? After all, it is also a game you have been playing
ヾ(^▽^*)))
Also, thank you for your hard work in the community

6 minutes ago, Evelo said:

One of wendy's weaknesses is her dealing less damage. Abigail fixes this and gives a damage boost. Abigail is excellent at AoE especially when she can stun lock enemies. Abigail is less effective against bosses because she is not a single target specialist and cannot stun lock them either. Playing around Abigail's weakness to bosses is fun (for me). It makes her more unique compared to other characters as you have to actually manage the health of your follower (unlike Bernie who is meant to tank and does little damage, wurt and webber who can have infinite followers).

With Abigail gaining the player entity tag I did not expect her to be capable of tanking for so long. This gives wendy enough time to quickly kill most bosses before abigail dies. I do not like this at all as it made the core game play of protect Abigail and be smart about her positioning and when to have her active vs inactive is effectively removed.

Gestalt Abigail turns this on its head where she is excellent at boss killing but significantly less good at AoE situations. I was mostly fine with Gestalt Abigail in the 2nd iteration just turn the damage down somewhat and really really prolong the vex duration. After some consideration I enjoy how you are locked into Gestalt Abigail and can't switch willy nilly that way you have consequences for your decisions. You trade strengths.

Hope that makes sense in why I want Abigail's survival to be nerfed.

The second version of lunar abi is really good, even if it has 0 damage I still always use it.
Using that version of lunar abi does not really require extra defense, but abi fragility is a common problem because not everyone will use that version of lunar abi. So for others, I also have to strive for enough flexibility and survivability.

(。﹏。)

[Well-met]

I want a chunk of the playerbase to stop always picking the strongest character out of the 24 we have, only to have them come here to complain that the updates aren't interesting and that the game is boring.

[Evelo]

25 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

I also have to strive for enough flexibility and survivability.

Maybe there should be no flexibility? Player decisions and actions have consequences, be it positive or negative. I'm totally fine with abigail being immortal if she only provides support. Likewise if she does damage I think she should be more fragile. Glass Cannon or Support, that is up to the player to decide.

[yinjiu019]

2 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Maybe there should be no flexibility? Player decisions and actions have consequences, be it positive or negative. I'm totally fine with abigail being immortal if she only provides support. Likewise if she does damage I think she should be more fragile. Glass Cannon or Support, that is up to the player to decide.

How about having a mode that doesn't deal damage but allows Wendy to continue to enjoy the buff?
Would it be OP?(¬‿¬)

[Evelo]

11 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

How about having a mode that doesn't deal damage but allows Wendy to continue to enjoy the buff?
Would it be OP?(¬‿¬)

at that point she is just an extra damage character with the likes of Wolfgang or Wigfrid, not op just boring but yknow, to each their own of course. I wouldn't use it personally.

[Lardee]

15 minutes ago, yinjiu019 said:

How about having a mode that doesn't deal damage but allows Wendy to continue to enjoy the buff?
Would it be OP?(¬‿¬)

How about a mode that doesn't buff, but allows Wendy to continue enjoying AoE?