Can someone with knowledge of code explain why entities take more damage than expected/intended sometimes?

[Pig Princess]

I hid the topic where I wanted to discuss a bug where entities take additional damage because I realized that quality of my post is too low, as I don't know the code, so me trying to explain what happens would most likely just mislead people. 

But I want discuss the topic itself. 

So why sometimes when multiple players/entities (including Abigail) are hit by AoE they take more damage than single hit would do to each of them? It seems to be the case with Ancient Fueflweaver where that means that should somebody stand close enough to Abigail she takes much more damage than if nobody is close to her. 

Why can Bearger and Armored Bearger deal double damage with ground pound/butt attack? When I practiced Armored Bearger recently, Abigail sometimes took double damage (I didn't pay attention how much damage Wendy took though). Those were the cases when both of them were hit. Is it because of the same reason as with Fuelweaver? Is it because shockwaves of Beargers/Toadstool can hit moving entities multiple times during one ground pound, as I saw someone wrote in the forums? Is there any other reason I didn't mention?

As one can see, it's too little of information to make bug report, and it's hard to reproduce. I did see it myself in described cases, as well as other people dying because of that.

Still, being hard to reproduce doesn't excuse bug existance. It affects gameplay. 

And while I'm writing on topic of hard to reproduce issues, can we get a fix to infinite loading into caves/forest that happens sometimes? I saw bug report that claimed it was because 2 players used cave entrances/exits at the same time and had similar connection quality. I experienced it myself and such explanation is in line with what happened in practice. It was reported multiple times across the years. How come this is not fixed until this day? 

[Uedo]

5 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

I hid the topic where I wanted to discuss a bug where entities take additional damage because I realized that quality of my post is too low, as I don't know the code, so me trying to explain what happens would most likely just mislead people. 

But I want discuss the topic itself. 

So why sometimes when multiple players/entities (including Abigail) are hit by AoE they take more damage than single hit would do to each of them? It seems to be the case with Ancient Fueflweaver where that means that should somebody stand close enough to Abigail she takes much more damage than if nobody is close to her. 

Why can Bearger and Armored Bearger deal double damage with ground pound/butt attack? When I practiced Armored Bearger recently, Abigail sometimes took double damage (I didn't pay attention how much damage Wendy took though). Those were the cases when both of them were hit. Is it because of the same reason as with Fuelweaver? Is it because shockwaves of Beargers/Toadstool can hit moving entities multiple times during one ground pound, as I saw someone wrote in the forums? Is there any other reason I didn't mention?

As one can see, it's too little of information to make bug report, and it's hard to reproduce. I did see it myself in described cases, as well as other people dying because of that.

Still, being hard to reproduce doesn't excuse bug existance. It affects gameplay. 

And while I'm writing on topic of hard to reproduce issues, can we get a fix to infinite loading into caves/forest that happens sometimes? I saw bug report that claimed it was because 2 players used cave entrances/exits at the same time and had similar connection quality. I experienced it myself and such explanation is in line with what happened in practice. It was reported multiple times across the years. How come this is not fixed until this day? 

I saw your other post too, I think this is a known thing if we're referencing the same thing!

I don't know the code that causes this, sorry, but I think this is a known thing. A lot of the AOE seems a bit tricky, I think this has to do with AOE triggering twice right? If i'm remembering right, I think that the ticks for damage can tick twice when you get hit with the very beginning of an AOE animation.

I'm probably not explaining well at all, but dragonflys enraged stomp is one that you should have an easy time replicating it on - Maybe someone can help more? If we're talking about the same thing, I've just generally tried my best to ignore it - or keep distance from the mob at the appropriate time.

[Xplan]

maybe your abi was at the center of the butt attack.

8 minutes ago, Pig Princess said:

Why can Bearger and Armored Bearger deal double damage with ground pound/butt attack? When I practiced Armored Bearger recently, Abigail sometimes took double damage (I didn't pay attention how much damage Wendy took though). Those were the cases when both of them were hit. Is it because of the same reason as with Fuelweaver? Is it because shockwaves of Beargers/Toadstool can hit moving entities multiple times during one ground pound, as I saw someone wrote in the forums? Is there any other reason I didn't mention?

 

[Pig Princess]

26 minutes ago, Xplan said:

maybe your abi was at the center of the butt attack.

 

It looks plausible, at the very list she was close. I'll try to check what happens if I put Abigail as close to the attack center as possible when I have an opportunity.

[thesooz9000]

Oh hey, someone just posted an explanation but it's gone, weird.

[Cassielu]

2 hours ago, thesooz9000 said:

Oh hey, someone just posted an explanation but it's gone, weird.

I've thought about it and found that isn't what we discussed here.

"same reason as with Fuelweaver" is probably the right answer.

[Crestwave]

AoE effects in this game can be quite wonky. Bearger's ground pound has been a classic issue, as it is actually made up of many smaller, overlapping circles. Thus, there are spots where you can get hit up to 3 times. Here is an old, classic image demonstrating it:

 

From what I remember, they used to have a slight time variation as well so you could indeed get hit like 5 times while moving, though I think they changed this when they added the rift variant. Take the image with a grain of salt as they may have adjusted the circles as well.

Winter's feast deerclops is another classic example. When its laser hits a mob, it spawns a small AoE effect on it. Thus, if you have multiple entities in the path of its laser, each of them will spawn their own overlapping effects, creating a nuke. On the other hand, deerclops' normal attack used to have an opposite effect, where it did less damage if hitting more than a single target.

Fuelweaver's attack seems to be a single AoE based on his target. I'm not aware of any similar double-hit mechanic with him; damage from the AoE should not exceed the damage you would take tanking him alone (note that his base damage is 200).

[Pig Princess]

8 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

I'm not aware of any similar double-hit mechanic with him

What about slam attack (melee part of bone cage) and bones of the bone cage? Are they capable of producing nuke? 

About skull attack I heared the following (take it with grain of salt). It has small AoE and due to bug it is initiated from target instead of Fuelweaver himself. That means that "nuke" effect can happen just like in case Winter's feast Deerclops. However, if Abigail is away from player she doesn't take damage from this attack provided player tanks themselves. 

What I actually observed when practiced fight with one of my friends was that so long as we stood far from Abigail and tanked spectral cure-all allowed to outheal occasional slam attacks. However, when my friend ended up at the same side as Abigail she was nuked even under the effect of spectral cure-all. 

I think this thing should be fixed and I'm trying to bring attention to this problem.

I just thought that at least some people could indeed experience Abigail's observed fragility because they don't know about interaction. And before things like player tags are added, it's important to weed out those problems.

In some cases it may be a situation like with beefalo. They were unable to enter caves and go offline with you, which hindered them a lot, but people didn't tame them much even in personal world precisely because of how quickly they untamed. They also seemed to not switch to salt lick offscreen, so one couldn't go away from them for more than 15 days. It was a major disappointment to me when I placed 2 fresh salt licks and went to the caves for 25 days for ruins clearing and other activities, but saw untamed cow with fresh salt lick when I returned. I never tamed them again until YotB.

So bottom line is: before tinkering balance of something it's a good idea to catch up on bugs. 

[Crestwave]

1 minute ago, Pig Princess said:

About skull attack I heared the following (take it with grain of salt). It has small AoE and due to bug it is initiated from target instead of Fuelweaver himself. That means that "nuke" effect can happen just like in case Winter's feast Deerclops. However, if Abigail is away from player she doesn't take damage from this attack provided player tanks themselves. 

What I actually observed when practiced fight with one of my friends was that so long as we stood far from Abigail and tanked spectral cure-all allowed to outheal occasional slam attacks. However, when my friend ended up at the same side as Abigail she was nuked even under the effect of spectral cure-all. 

As far as I am aware, the small AoE indeed originates from the target, but only one AoE is triggered. I think this is simply a case of getting hit or not, unlike deerclops' laser which spawns an explosion for each target. It appears like a nuke because Fuelweaver's base damage is 200.

I am not sure about the slam or bone cage, but both abilities also do significant damage.

I think that the new abilities like escape and attack at will be extremely valuable for keeping Abi alive against FW. The shadow alignment is also quite nice for extra resistance.

[Pig Princess]

6 minutes ago, Crestwave said:

As far as I am aware, the small AoE indeed originates from the target, but only one AoE is triggered. I think this is simply a case of getting hit or not, unlike deerclops' laser which spawns an explosion for each target. It appears like a nuke because Fuelweaver's base damage is 200.

I am not sure about the slam or bone cage, but both abilities also do significant damage.

I think that the new abilities like escape and attack at will be extremely valuable for keeping Abi alive against FW. The shadow alignment is also quite nice for extra resistance.

I myself have no problem killing Fuelweaver, as Wendy&Abigail or not. But I just thought that it would be a good idea to get rid of cases where Abigail could really die too fast before trying to convince people that player tag needs to be removed. 

Even if I fail, worst case scenario game would have 1 less bug, I suppose. Or actually worst case scenario would be that nothing changes, and since I'm not loosing something aside some time (which is much less than needed for other threads), I might as well try. 

[DVGMedia]

I know fuel weaver does have some random extra attacks people don't notice. like how bone cage has a hitbox on the spikes popping up.
And well the bone spike attack at the start is also its own and the slam has its own attack.