Why Abigail's Boss Survivability Change Is a Win for Casual Wendy Mains

[Xplan]

Just now, Dingle said:

With the vex elixir and a beefalo, she hits harder than Wolfgang now.

Different characters are different. I thought you played Wendy, mostly? Why talk so much about the other characters?

lardee mentioned it first. go ask him.....

by the way, i play wurt and i think Abi is hilarious.

my troops can destroy any bosses within half a day and only cost a few kelp fronds.

while Abi......no dmg, only 600 HP, costing much elixirs.

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

You can pick either of these two definitions: 

then Q.E.D

like i said

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

lardee mentioned it first. go ask him.....

by the way, i play wurt and i think Abi is hilarious.

my troops can destroy any bosses within half a day and only cost a few kelp fronds.

while Abi......no dmg, only 600 HP, costing much elixirs.

then Q.E.D

like i said

What if Wendy could use mourning glories to make merm huts? And then she could make a merm disguise to recruit merms.

In exchange, she would lose Abigail.

Would that make you happy?

[Xplan]

Just now, Dingle said:

What if Wendy could use mourning glories to make merm huts? And then she could make a merm disguise to recruit merms.

In exchange, she would lose Abigail.

Would that make you happy?

if you insist to destroy Abi......i accept

[Lardee]

11 minutes ago, Xplan said:

then Q.E.D

like i said

i've already responded to this. 

[Xplan]

Just now, Lardee said:

i've already responded to this. 

 

i've responded already……

If Abi is unkillable, it does not "remove Wendy's downside". because that is not how remove is defined.

[Lardee]

5 minutes ago, Xplan said:

 

i've responded already……

If Abi is unkillable, it does not "remove Wendy's downside". because that is not how remove is defined.

It literally does remove it. If Abigail is summoned, Wendy does not deal 0.75 damage. She deals 1.15 damage. If Abigail is invincible, Wendy always does 1.15 damage. 

 

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Shining Galaxy said:

The premise of "no effort" is incorrect, as I've said, even with player tags and Spectral Cure All, Abigail is by no means "immortal." Just as you wouldn't call a player with multiple Thulecite Crowns and Dragonpies "immortal," because when facing CC, if the technique is poor, these supplies can still be easily depleted.

You're hitting the punching bag again; Abigail is not "invincible" or "immortal"; she still needs protection. Does hitting the punching bag instead of addressing the actual arguments make it easier for you?

This makes CC the litmus test again though.

[Lardee]

5 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

The premise of "no effort" is incorrect, as I've said, even with player tags and Spectral Cure All, Abigail is by no means "immortal." Just as you wouldn't call a player with multiple Thulecite Crowns and Dragonpies "immortal," because when facing CC, if the technique is poor, these supplies can still be easily depleted.

You're hitting the punching bag again; Abigail is not "invincible" or "immortal"; she still needs protection. Does hitting the punching bag instead of addressing the actual arguments make it easier for you?

If she's immortal against Armored Bearger, her strongest matchup, she's not going to get killed by anything.

 

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If she's immortal against Armored Bearger, her strongest matchup, she's not going to get killed by anything.

 

Haha, you only had to use two cure alls.

Hahahaha, Abigail ended the fight with full health.

Also Shadow abby isn't used.

Also the kill time is only 1:30 or so.

[SilverSpoon]

17 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Armored Bearger, her strongest matchup,

Twins : Hold my beer.

[Tranoze]

49 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If she's immortal against Armored Bearger, her strongest matchup, she's not going to get killed by anything.

Is immortal that OP? Even immortal Wes is useless vs armored bearger:

 

 

[Debruh]

50 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Is immortal that OP? Even immortal Wes is useless vs armored bearger:

 

Abigail doesn't experience knockback, so immortality on her is op.

Also, this is a bug. As normally Bearger will knock you out of his range eventually. So yes immortality is op.

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

Twins : Hold my beer.

That's been survivable for Abby for a long time

Armored bearger on the other hand, was not survivable for Abby. Until team spirit rolled around 

[Reiko24]

2 hours ago, Lardee said:

If she's immortal against Armored Bearger, her strongest matchup, she's not going to get killed by anything.

 

There is no point. Do not bother.

I'm sure Klei already saw your posts and likely agrees with you. You will not persuade absolutely any of them. They set their minds on this thing. It's not about arguments and logic, it's about "i want it, i want it, i want it!". 

I have already tried discussing certain topics with them at the beginning of the beta, so I'm saying that you won't persuade them from experience.

You're better off just writing one or two meaningful comments and ignoring the storm that they create afterwards.

I think (not certain, it just looked like it) that you were a bit frustrated, so that's why I'm writing this. There's no point in enduring this frustration if nothing comes out of it anyway.

4 hours ago, Echsrick said:

consider the following: learn how to skillfully master the game mechanics of your character, instead of demanding to get everything handed to you by doin absolutly nothing, by that point why are you even playing the game?

THISSSSSSS

If you want to play a relaxing game that has no dangers and is super convenient and easy, then just turn on godmode.

[Lardee]

3 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Twins : Hold my beer.

Wendy didn't need her skill tree or even Spectral Cure All to deal with the twins. Fighting the twins as Wendy takes barely any more skill than fighting them with Wilson/Wolfgang.

Go to 6:56:58.  

 

[Arepantera]

3 hours ago, Lardee said:

If she's immortal against Armored Bearger, her strongest matchup, she's not going to get killed by anything.

 

The reason she's immortal against AB is because you're carefully positioning abby so that she gets attacked the least amount of times, yet she still gets hit around 9 times. Which equals to something around 900-910 damage, more than abby's HP. Had you not healed her and had you made her tank she would have died. Had she not had the player tag and planar defense then she would have received 1845 damage, I don't know if she could have survived that, maybe, there is always a way, but just because someone can do something doesn't mean that the game or a character should be balanced around that person. Someone could make the argument that since he can beat the whole as Wes while only using spears, that other characters should be nerfed around his level and that weapons shouldn't do more damage than a spear, and that person would be using logic very similar to yours, yet we all know that if that somebody were to say that, he'd be just wrong.

 

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Reiko24 said:

If you want to play a relaxing game that has no dangers and is super convenient and easy, then just turn on godmode.

...Reiko24, I know you before the beta, you could calm and decent communication, so please Please don't use that "A logic".

I told the person who used that to "Just use ThePlayer.components.health:SetMaxHealth(1)". but this is just as stupid, toxic, and  it's really, REALLY  selfish as "just use godmode".

I hate say that to a sane person, especially a DST mate, And I even more extremely hate that who I personally considered a friend says something like that.

Reiko24. I don't have any negative feelings towards you. I'm just very concerned about you are changing days of days.

46 minutes ago, Lardee said:

Wendy didn't need her skill tree or even Spectral Cure All to deal with the twins.

Go to 6:56:58.  

Even if you could, I still think her strongest matchup is Twins.

Actually, I don't know what kind of reaction you were hoping for when you posted this.

[Lardee]

38 minutes ago, arepana said:

The reason she's immortal against AB is because you're carefully positioning abby so that she gets attacked the least amount of times, yet she still gets hit around 9 times. Which equals to something around 900-910 damage, more than abby's HP. Had you not healed her and had you made her tank she would have died. Had she not had the player tag and planar defense then she would have received 1845 damage, I don't know if she could have survived that, maybe, there is always a way, but just because someone can do something doesn't mean that the game or a character should be balanced around that person. Someone could make the argument that since he can beat the whole as Wes while only using spears, that other characters should be nerfed around his level and that weapons shouldn't do more damage than a spear, and that person would be using logic very similar to yours, yet we all know that if that somebody were to say that, he'd be just wrong.

 

I didn't try to position Abigail at all in this fight. All I was doing was trying to dodge Armored Bearger's attacks like I would as Wilson. 

The intent of the video was to show just how strong Blessed Sisturn III is when combined with Spectral Cure All. It makes Abigail unkillable and makes Wendy gameplay the same as Wilson/Wolfgang gameplay. This is why I didn't use animation canceling. I wanted to show a typical, generic Armored Bearger.

If I didn't heal her she would have died. That is correct. However you can get 6-10 Spectral Cure Alls per pipspook quest, so constantly healing Abigail for every boss fight is very realistic.

25 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Even if you could, I still think her strongest matchup is Twins.

Actually, I don't know what kind of reaction you were hoping for when you posted this.

If Wendy can keep Abigail alive against the twins without any more difficult than fighting it with Wilson, then the Twins obviously are not her toughest matchup.

[Well-met]

There was a time when people used to be ashamed of being bad at videogames.

[Reiko24]

54 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

...Reiko24, I know you before the beta, you could calm and decent communication, so please Please don't use that "A logic".

I told the person who used that to "Just use ThePlayer.components.health:SetMaxHealth(1)". but this is just as stupid, toxic, and  it's really, REALLY  selfish as "just use godmode".

I hate say that to a sane person, especially a DST mate, And I even more extremely hate that who I personally considered a friend says something like that.

Reiko24. I don't have any negative feelings towards you. I'm just very concerned about you are changing days of days.

Eh. Sorry. I'm just tired of all those posts and discussions. Makes the worst get out of me.

[Lardee]

@arepana

Here's another Wendy vs Armored Bearger where I deliberately try to get Abigail hit more.

Results are the same:

 

[SilverSpoon]

6 minutes ago, Well-met said:

There was a time when people used to be ashamed of being bad at videogames.

As I grew older, and especially as I worked on video game development, I realized that there are very few "bad players" -- there are bad controls, bad navigation, bad explanations, bad motivations, bad constraints, and bad design.

When I'm so, there's a surprising amount of gaming philosophy to be learned from Hello Kitty video games.

[SilverSpoon]

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

Eh. Sorry. I'm just tired of all those posts and discussions. Makes the worst get out of me.

OK, I'll stop any more. However, you will get more than more posts and discussions like this from everyone if you going this way. I just hope it will not break your mental.

[Well-met]

22 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

As I grew older, and especially as I worked on video game development, I realized that there are very few "bad players" -- there are bad controls, bad navigation, bad explanations, bad motivations, bad constraints, and bad design.

When I'm so, there's a surprising amount of gaming philosophy to be learned from Hello Kitty video games.

that's quite some bold-faced lies right there.

[Arepantera]

19 minutes ago, Lardee said:

I didn't try to position Abigail at all in this fight. All I was doing was trying to dodge Armored Bearger's attacks like I would as Wilson. 

Are you sure about that? The way you got behind it at the start of the fight instead of just to it's side and the way you move your camera makes me thing the opposite, but that could also be me seeing things where there are none.

 

22 minutes ago, Lardee said:

The intent of the video was to show just how strong Blessed Sisturn III is when combined with Spectral Cure All. It makes Abigail unkillable and makes Wendy gameplay the same as Wilson/Wolfgang gameplay. This is why I didn't use animation canceling. I wanted to show a typical, generic Armored Bearger.

But how exactly is she the same as Wilson or Wolfang? Because now you can just focus on your own safety without worrying about Abigail dying? Wendy has always been able to kill things the same way as Wilson and wolfgang, the only thing that changes is kill times due to the difference in damage modifiers. However, Wilson and Wolfgang can't use wendy's strategies to kill certain bosses like BQ and AF. She still retains her gameplay. "X character should always keep their gameplay or refrain to go too much into other character's gameplays" is an argument that can be interpreted many ways and can be used in favor or against of many things.

 

30 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If I didn't heal her she would have died. That is correct. However you can get 6-10 Spectral Cure Alls per pipspook quest, so constantly healing Abigail for every boss fight is very realistic.

 

5 minutes ago, Lardee said:

@arepana

Here's another Wendy vs Armored Bearger where I deliberately try to get Abigail hit more.

Results are the same:

 

Yeah, it's not hard to have spectre cure all on her the whole time, the new perks made generating potion too easy, I can agree with that. However that is a byproduct of cure all being too powerful and now making it too accessible thanks to RNG extra potions, grave relocation, more toy searchs and more glories per reward. If you ask the average wendy player which potion is the strongest one, I'm sure that the great majority will say that it's cure-all, in my opinion this only proves that cure all has always been the most oppressive potion. IIRC at the start of the beta there were a couple of players that asked the devs to let Abigail use 2 potions at the same time so that they could use something else. They kinda did it but in a different way. 
However, I fail to see how is this a bad thing. A lot of characters get to use their character perks against those type of bosses, perks that are just as good as wendy's without getting any of her downsides. 2 bernies can tank AB (and even stun him) and willow loses none of her perks when bernie dies for the first time, she still has normal damage, still can cast her allegiance spells. Maxwell can use his duelists against AB like against any other boss with no problem, like willow, he doesn't lose his character perks when fighting him. Would you say that Willow and Maxwell are Wilson/Wolfgang clones because they can fight those kind of bosses without losing their skills?

That's all this does, make sure that wendy can use her character perks against AoE bosses, like many other characters can.

[Tranoze]

5 hours ago, Lardee said:

Fighting the twins as Wendy takes barely any more skill

Hmm because we often fight twin as group (its a crime to summon twin without notice to other players in surface) casual wendies dont get the luxury to wait for twin to be awake and repositioning so eye only dash away from abi.

Plus when there are 2-3 player attacking you cant control where twin dash.

If there a maxwell to cage the twin, her dash become aoe in her place with the direction of the dash. That you also cant control where it dash.

That why casual wendy have to unsummon abi when fighting twins and most other aoe bosses, as there are too much things you cant control playing together.