Blessed Sisturn III is Way too Strong

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Abigail can't be buffed by Warly.

She can by Wolfgang.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Dingle said:

 

I hope you start talking about spider gland farming again. Still my favorite goofy, pointless derail of yours so far.

I wasn't even the one who brought it up. Someone made the ludicrous claim that Wendy has infinite and free healing, so I tried to interpret that as generously as possible (that they're saying her crowd control abilities make spider glands basically free). 

[aidankocherhans]

Just now, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, I know you're talking about Wolfgang being buffed by Warly. I am pointing out that Abigail can't be buffed by Warly, which means that her potential is far lower than his.

But should it even be comparable when Abby has built in aoe, and now is effectively unkillable?

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

She can by Wolfgang.

Oh yeah?? If Wendy is so overpowered, explain Coaching Whistle Wolfgang!

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Dingle said:

Oh yeah?? If Wendy is so overpowered, explain Coaching Whistle Wolfgang!

Hey it's about as silly as using Warly's buff 

[DegenerateFurry]

1 minute ago, aidankocherhans said:

But should it even be comparable when Abby has built in aoe, and now is effectively unkillable?

Effectively unkillable? Did you even watch the video? She literally dies in it multiple times despite having stacks of Mourning Glories' worth of Cure-Alls pumped into her. 

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I wasn't even the one who brought it up. Someone made the ludicrous claim that Wendy has infinite and free healing, so I tried to interpret that as generously as possible (that they're saying her crowd control abilities make spider glands basically free). 

Oh, that's weird. A better argument is that tents are super cheap for her due to silk farming.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Hey it's about as silly as using Warly's buff 

 

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Oh yeah?? If Wendy is so overpowered, explain Coaching Whistle Wolfgang!

Bully all that you want, but I will never, ever take a balance argument seriously while the big circus man gets double damage literally for free and people act like that's fine.

Just now, Dingle said:

Oh, that's weird. A better argument is that tents are super cheap for her due to silk farming.

The food you need to restore your hunger's not, though.

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 

Bully all that you want, but I will never, ever take a balance argument seriously while the big circus man gets double damage literally for free and people act like that's fine.

Wendy has a aoe killing machine for free with no upkeep...

Even then I feel like if you really want to keep it it should simply be locked behind pure brilliance so it comes into effect post rift. However only for the lunar path since durability seems to be what they were going for with that form.

[aidankocherhans]

4 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Effectively unkillable? Did you even watch the video? She literally dies in it multiple times despite having stacks of Mourning Glories' worth of Cure-Alls pumped into her. 

Eventually. And only because there's no dodging or breaks in attack whatsoever 

3 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Bully all that you want, but I will never, ever take a balance argument seriously while the big circus man gets double damage literally for free and people act like that's fine.

A lot of people don't like Wolfgang for that reason. But it's also his only major perk

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Wendy has a aoe killing machine for free with no upkeep...

Not to mention wolf has to keep an eye on power-downs during long bosses and the removal of his old size speed bonus keeps him in check hard.

[aidankocherhans]

6 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

That's not unkillable then, which implies that she never dies.

The boss will die eventually too. And it doesn't have to be literally infinite to be overpowered 

And keep in mind we went from getting 4 shot to almost infinite shot for 30 seconds, doesn't that seem like a drastic change?

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

Not to mention wolf has to keep an eye on power-downs during long bosses and the removal of his old size speed bonus keeps him in check hard.

Also he really got shafted when it came to giving him more ultity compared to just about everyone and Wendy straight up broke the one rule that was supposed to be the reason he couldn't get better skills...

[cyjs]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Also he really got shafted when it came to giving him more ultity compared to just about everyone and Wendy straight up broke the one rule that was supposed to be the reason he couldn't get better skills...

It was Willow, the little devil, the working girl who broke the rules, not Wendy

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 

Bully all that you want, but I will never, ever take a balance argument seriously while the big circus man gets double damage literally for free and people act like that's fine.

I dunno, seems like a cop out.

5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The food you need to restore your hunger's not, though.

Food issues? As Wendy? I'm not sure if I can buy this one.

It's such a sad argument that I can't even make fun of it.

[WenericMember]

9 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Oh, that's weird. A better argument is that tents are super cheap for her due to silk farming.

I made the argument on both.

[Dingle]

Just now, WenericMember said:

I made the argument on both.

Oh ok, I get the tactic.

[WenericMember]

9 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

 

Bully all that you want, but I will never, ever take a balance argument seriously while the big circus man gets double damage literally for free and people act like that's fine.

The food you need to restore your hunger's not, though.

People... don't? Wolfgangs pretty commonly seen as one of the worst designed characters.

[DegenerateFurry]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Wendy has a aoe killing machine for free with no upkeep...

Even then I feel like if you really want to keep it it should simply be locked behind pure brilliance so it comes into effect post rift. However only for the lunar path since durability seems to be what they were going for with that form.

It coming into effect post-rift would make it unusable for most of a playthrough, though, which isn't really any better than just getting rid of the perk. 

I keep bringing up Wolfgang because if we actually look at the practical reality of the situation and ignore all the flavor about Wendy being a kid with a ghost sister and Wolfgang being a strongman - just look at the raw numbers in their pure form - Wolfgang's doubled damage for free still surpasses Abigail with an equal amount of prep time. 

Baseline (and I'll be charitable and assume three days have passed so Abby has 600 HP), Wolfgang is stronger outright and does more DPS. Abigail dies against any boss that has AoE before its health is even down to half. 

Early-to-mid-game, Wolfgang is still stronger outright and still does more DPS, but if Wendy's spent a lot of time farming Cure-Alls and can consistently apply them while also fighting herself and perhaps using Shadow Abigail's perk, the player tag now allows her to actually use Abigail against bosses that do AoE damage for more than a few seconds at a time. That makes them closer to equal.

Post-rifts/with ideal setup, Wolfgang vastly surpasses Wendy's absolute highest potential and it's not gonna be close, even with Shadow Abigail being as strong as she is. 

[Well-met]

1 minute ago, DegenerateFurry said:

use Abigail against bosses that do AoE damage for more than a few seconds at a time.

would just like to point out AoE doesn't matter here. Abi is alone.

AoE counters player pig, spider, merm armies.

[aidankocherhans]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

I'm assuming that's Spectral Cure-All's fault?

Yes, high damage resist paired with identical healing makes a busted combo

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, cyjs said:

It was Willow, the little devil, the working girl who broke the rules, not Wendy

Techinically it was Maxwell he inspired a whole set of character reworks but that aside Willow didn't really have an established role before skill trees Wendy did but I do agree Willow was overtuned but Wendy definitely jumped the shark with this one.

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, Well-met said:

would just like to point out AoE doesn't matter here. Abi is alone.

AoE counters player pig, spider, merm armies.

Bernie can do it too, he was just a rag doll before

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Well-met said:

would just like to point out AoE doesn't matter here. Abi is alone.

AoE counters player pig, spider, merm armies.

I am not talking about the videos. I said "the practical reality of the situation". That means actual gameplay. AoE does matter there.

In fights without AoE, you can very easily make Abigail almost never take damage just by taking the aggro yourself. In fights with AoE, Abigail (without this perk) either dies periodically or has to be periodically unsummoned so that you can let her heal up with a Cure-All before bringing her back out for a disappointingly short amount of time again. You'd know this if you played Wendy.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

How would you feel about Spectral Cure-All being half as effective?

That just makes this skill mandatory