Why did we nerf self-healing on Naughty Wortox?

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

No, I would definitely keep this change too if this was some sort of trade, but it's not a trade. There is no choice here. I don't really see what the purpose of this was when it is disproportionally annoying for the solo early game experience when empty bottle luck isn't even up to the player. 

Seriously, what was the problem we're trying to solve here? Naughty was already a mixed bag, but it's unavoidable for single player.

Honestly, the biggest issue is that there isn't really a choice for solo builds unless you make another large sacrifice. The only things you can really do is completely gut your Naughty skills in favor of... skills that do nothing for you. If you play around with the skill tree a bit, you'll quickly notice how difficult it is to avoid a Naughty inclination on a solo build in a way that provides you with very little value. It's just the consequence of 7 of the 11 Nice skills being designed for multiplayer.

There's no choice for single player builds. If inclination was something we had more control over, this wouldn't be as big of an issue. But that's just not how Wortox's skills tree adds up in the end.

So what was so wrong with single player Naughty Wortox builds that we decided it's worth deliberately being obnoxious to them in specific? What is the design philosophy here?

Just fix Nice instead. This change doesn't accomplish anything besides giving both inclinations and early game annoyance. Is this really the best outcome?

But hey, is wendy who got the bad tree apparently xD

I wish they added more variety of perks. All is very linked so you cant just pick a couple perks from a branch because most likely they will be useless and, as you said, in the nice side most of the perks are multiplayer oriented without benefits for solo players and the increase healing ones, even if work for solo player, are useless compared to store and gather more souls. I rather prefer 100 souls that heals 15 hp than few ones that heals 20...

[OMEGASCRUFF]

2 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

theme. naughty gets punished, while he is more resistant to losing sanity from eating them, he gets less healing. theres also the point that naughty side is offense based, more than nice side with it being defense based

That's definitely not what happened because they would have just reverted it back to the way it was on healing values at the very start of the beta. They made the choice that it was a bad idea to touch healing (which I mostly agree with), reversed it, then exclusively reimplemented it in a fashion that specifically targets builds that are inherently more centered around solo play and independence. Flavor is great, but it's not the core purpose behind any good feature but rather a decision factored into the implementation. As I said in the OP, they cared a great deal about parity between Naughty and Nice benefits performing as counterparts to each other. This doesn't accomplish that, and is exclusively a nerf to one side which also inherently targets a specific group of players.

The only justifiable reason for it is "fairness", which is not what this change has achieved, nor is it a particularly valuable metric to design choices from the start. If we're equating fairness with game balance, then the key was is improving the comparative strengths and weaknesses on both sides of the inclination system, in which case a positive adjustment to Nice is a more desirable outcome than a negative adjustment to Naughty, as they specifically and intentionally appeal to different groups of players and play styles. This context matters greatly.

I honestly thought that other than the sanity penalty on eating Souls being a bit brutal to new and casual players, which could be improved by number tweaks or even new traits added to both inclinations to provide more solutions for this group, that the inclinations were in a pretty good state and should probably try to have gentle impacts to gameplay overall. The numerical trait of Nice was just better in the long-term while Naughty is better in the short-term. I want to reiterate: I don't think inclinations should have drastic impacts on numbers and gameplay. You cannot choose them. Your scenario chooses them for you, which is built into the teamwork vs. solo play dichotomy on his skill tree. But I get why they might want the inclinations to do more, but this just means there's more opportunity for productive features. And, for some reason, 25% is always the answer, and I don't get the fixation on it, because it can really mean a lot when touching core functions of a character's primary mechanic.

The best you can do to get around this is revert to Neutral with sacrifices, but those sacrifices are not offered via any reasonable skill choices from the Naughty side for solo players. Only the movement related skills offer anything for solo play, while the AoE options in Naughty are helpful to both group and solo play.

Either way, part of this proposition is to correct the issue with the Nice inclination, because punishing the Naughty inclination instead doesn't actually solve anything other than surface level optics. I'm sure you'd agree that there were more productive ways to handle this that don't single out an entire type of players in practice. Hurting something that was otherwise fine for the sake of fairness is just destructive. I hope you can see what I'm saying here. This was just a regressive choice to make when Naughty perks were never the problem. I can't forgive poor decisions that affect a targeted demographic for the sake of perceived fairness, and I don't think anyone else should, either. This change is short-sighted and conceptually weak, and I'm saying all this without even being much of a solo player these days. I just want to see the best results reasonably possible for any demographic.

2 hours ago, Dizzyhint said:

I'd say they nerfed Naughty because it was just the best option since it kind of cancels out all of Tox's downsides:

• Jars have a small setup cost and eliminate the main thing keeping Tox firmly around the mid tiers: his soul capacity. The unique weapon is also a nice perk pre-rifts as it's damage ranges between spear/darksword with no downside, more durability and dirt cheap.
• Soul pierce makes farming souls take barely any time at all so long as you have access to spiders or bees (preferably bees) and also helps out in several other situations such as hounds, shadow monkeys, bee queen and fuelweaver. The clone skill is kinda meh on it's own but works great in tandem with soul pierce to start chain reactions.
• Naughty inclination removing the penalty for eating souls almost totally eliminates Wortox's sanity issues, the only stat souls can't restore is sanity but them being able to keep hp/hunger topped up with zero penalty lets you funnel your resources into handling that single stat. The 10 second delay before dropping half of your souls when you go above your cap also makes soul farming significantly easier and works well with both the jars and pierce, it also removes the risk of accidently going over the cap at a bad time and getting stunned.

 

Nice on the other hand:

• The whole Capricious movement branch is insanely good and makes souls more efficient and makes Wortox's mobility just silly. It just like the jars are a must take.
• The middle tree making healing more potent is somewhat redundant, default souls heal for 20 and this just makes the range larger and adds 10 healing. On solo Tox you can negate way more damage by teleporting in place and in multiplayer if people keep dying despite having Wortox souls and whatever healing food they have brought themselves +10hp won't save them from the much larger skill issue at hand. I genuinely think this branch is only good if you really want to support any friends totally new to DST, which Tox was already good at.
• The hearts tree is only useful if you are playing with other people, letting Tox taxi people across the map is stupid good but it does come at the opportunity cost of some naughty skills/affinity.
• Nice inclination provides neutrality with bunnies/pigs/catcoons which is... nice? The issue is this isn't a major downside, pigs as workers are merely "ok" till you get much better wood farmers (Bearger), catcoons are just a nusance, and while Bunnies are dangerous you're playing Wortox and can just teleport past/away from them. The main use I see for this is making setting up a bunny/pig farm easier

More importantly is nice inclination has a downside: -10 sanity from eating souls amplifies Wortox's sanity issues and is a major nuisance, the doubled sanity gain from dropping souls (+5) does not alleviate this as you drop souls way less often than you eat them as Wortox, especially if you are proficient at avoiding damage.

Giving Naughty a minor downside (-5 hp for selfhealing) just brings it just slightly more in line with the nice inclination without making Tox worse at supporting others.

 

Imo the Nice side of his skill tree needs some kind of buff to make it more worth sacrificing points in naughty, the middle and left branches are much more situational than than their equivalent's on the other side and the inclination upside is kinda whatever vs the major QoL Naughty gives you.

Yep. Buff Nice instead and solve its issues instead.

I agree that the Nice skills provide generally less universal value than what Naughty provides, but this is independent of the inclinations. If we want the Nice skills improved, then improve them instead of changing the inclination for Naughty. This was a bad solution that does nothing to remedy the issue. There's better options than this.

I also agree with most of your specific analyses of the skills. I just don't think this was a productive way to address the issue. Buff Nice or buff both, but with better results for Nice, ideally in a way that offers a better solution for sanity management.

(...We're clearly willing to throw away character downsides on Wortox at this point, so I wouldn't even care if Nice got 25% more value from real food while Naughty got 25% more hunger from Souls. It's still a 62.5% value on real food for Nice, so the downside remains, but this is a pretty massive perk for it especially for sanity food, and keeps symmetry between both inclinations without taking away from either, while simultaneously offering a more transparent solution to Nice builds for sanity solutions. It also seems to align with the devs' clear fixation on adjusting values in ratios of 1/4 and opposing 1/8, without enforcing unnecessary downsides. It's just a thought, though, but it would at least partially make up for how mediocre the Nice skills are without fundamentally changing them or punishing anyone either. At least Naughty can seriously drop Meaty Stews entirely and just prepare sanity food exclusively, but this boost is rather meaningless to it since it was already not a huge resource drain to eat Souls with 4 Soul Jars. Just saved a little more time, is all. Wow! A solution that helps provide a benefit and and simultaneous instruction to address the sanity management for Nice inclinations while also adding a more consequential upside to make it more appealing? Jeez, I wasn't even paid for it!)

I want to repeat that Naughty does have a downside, though. It's not huge, but it's not an option at all for Naughty while doable on Nice and Neutral, regardless. Now that mass Soul farming is part of our gameplay loop, we don't have access to a quick sanity station as Naughty that is further improved by the Nice inclination. Food and passive positive auras are more or less the only real options for Naughty's sanity control, other than I guess sleeping. (Also, um, I just got a say, has nobody else specifically teleported to Lunar Island to abuse fissures for free and moderately quick sanity, and dispelling Nightmare creatures, regardless of your inclination? Just me? Aww. I've only bothered like once with it, but it patched me up just fine before better sanity solutions were available and gave me a pee break.)

I've said this quite a few times in the past, but I don't know why we even touched sanity numbers to begin with. We literally already went through this during the Wortox rework awhile ago, and it did a fine job addressing the issue. I was conceptually fine with healing and hunger values being different for both inclinations, but a 25% increase/decrease is extreme for a skill you can't manually choose, and I immediately opposed it for that reason, and I wanted to see them brought down to 12.5%. Ultimately this feature was entirely dropped, but asymmetrically returned in the last update. I'm not sure where this indecision is coming from.

Souls as food is really only useful early in the game, and becomes pretty useless when playing solo after the first season or two. It's not like you have anything else to do with that food you collect besides eat it yourself, and even with the food penalty, they still offer other stats while Souls are hunger and nothing more. You can't even convert the excess Souls you get and drop to prevent overloading into free sanity. Best you can do is eat them to increase a stat that was never a concern for Wortox to begin with. He's never had to worry about hunger, and only health when under major threat (like any character, of course), but that's when your heal speed matters most unless you can afford to fully flee the fight without lost progress.

But the sanity penalty on eating as Nice isn't huge either. It's just not friendly for a different group of players and the solutions are not readily presented to them very well. But at the end of the day, trading a penalty that affects you much more in the early game for a penalty that affects you throughout your entire playthrough is not how we fix this issue. Just fix Nice inclination. Naughty was fine. Nice is avoidable while Naughty is objectively the only route for certain playthroughs. Why make both unpleasant in now disproportionate ways? Why do this even proportionally? Not everything needs a blatant downside. There's always an opportunity cost when comparing two positive options anyways, but solo players don't really have any reasonable options besides Naughty.

 

 

Aaaaanyways... I feel like I've said basically all I can say regarding the subject in these responses + the OP. Not sure there's much more I can add besides ways to mitigate the change in solo play during your ruins rush, but this thread isn't about that, it's about removing this adjustment and creating a real solution. Nerfing something else did nothing to fix the issue. Just fix the specific problem instead and be proactive about balancing. This is a conceptually bizarre response to the issue that solves nothing of value and inconveniences an entire group of players with no other real build alternatives. Even if you don't think a 25% nerf on healing for solo players isn't consequential (which in some ways is partially true in the long-run, thanks yet again, Soul Jar...), this was a terribly flawed approach when compared to the countless number of proactive and more surgical choices that could have been made instead. We should expect better, whether a change is big or small.

If anyone has any other specific ideas for how to make Nice feel as appealing as Naughty, this is a great place to share or repeat your thoughts and why you think it would help, and I'd be eager to support well-thought alternatives. I think my food proposal is pretty solid at solving the existing issues, though, but I'm all ears to something reasonable to implement while also a good solution to this specific issue.

[Dizzyhint]

On 12/12/2024 at 11:38 PM, Dingle said:

Nice has great sanity management. Its no different than neutral/prebeta. Eat one soul, drop two. You just build it into your soul farming, like always. Ends your farming with full hunger and sanity.

I have issues with sanity as Naughty, more than Neutral. What are you doing for sanity in your games?

Same as I did pre-update; suffer early game shadow creatures (and get fuel) before getting a Tam to eliminate sanity management outside of boss fights, otherwise use sanity foods like green caps/cacti where needed.

Old Tox (current neutral) really just needs a Tam to mostly ignore sanity issues. Naughty has the benefit of less inconvenience in the early game but operates mostly the same, since you can use souls with 0 downside you can just reserve almost all the space in your fridge for just sanity foods. New Tox can just teleport to both deserts every few days to mass gather cacti whenever he wants.

Not needing to drop 2 souls for every 1 you eat also saves a lot of time soul farming, it's much faster to just chug sanity foods even at half efficiency. Meanwhile you get the perk of not dropping half your souls because you looked away from your soul count for half a second while killing Depth Dwellers in the ruins lol

[Dingle]

6 hours ago, Dizzyhint said:

Same as I did pre-update; suffer early game shadow creatures (and get fuel) before getting a Tam to eliminate sanity management outside of boss fights, otherwise use sanity foods like green caps/cacti where needed.

Old Tox (current neutral) really just needs a Tam to mostly ignore sanity issues. Naughty has the benefit of less inconvenience in the early game but operates mostly the same, since you can use souls with 0 downside you can just reserve almost all the space in your fridge for just sanity foods. New Tox can just teleport to both deserts every few days to mass gather cacti whenever he wants.

Not needing to drop 2 souls for every 1 you eat also saves a lot of time soul farming, it's much faster to just chug sanity foods even at half efficiency. Meanwhile you get the perk of not dropping half your souls because you looked away from your soul count for half a second while killing Depth Dwellers in the ruins lol

I see. I was mostly playing the early game and trying to rush fuelweaver. I have not gone for the Tam yet (I will when I resume my day 24 game next big hotfix), though I agree that it was always a game changer for prebeta Wortox.

I'm pretty used to mashing soul drop when turbo soul farming, so Nice works great for me if I can get it.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

Bumping since it wasn't addressed in the hot fix. It'll get pushed to page 3 in 2 hours anyways.

I have been doing a bunch of bosses rush solo attempts. This change feels just as awful as I remember it did in the initial beta release, and it shouldn't have come back. Please remove this change and do something proactive instead.

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Bumping since it wasn't addressed in the hot fix. It'll get pushed to page 3 in 2 hours anyways.

For the most part, I'm not bothering posting about Walter or Wortox until the devs are back from vacation.

Until they respond, it's pretty much just the "Sisturn III Discussion Forums" now.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Bumping since it wasn't addressed in the hot fix. It'll get pushed to page 3 in 2 hours anyways.

I have been doing a bunch of bosses rush solo attempts. This change feels just as awful as I remember it did in the initial beta release, and it shouldn't have come back. Please remove this change and do something proactive instead.

I quite dont know that after the newest hotfix, a battle focusing build with nice result become possible already. what problems remained?

[OMEGASCRUFF]

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I quite dont know that after the newest hotfix, a battle focusing build with nice result become possible already. what problems remained?

I have addressed this already. It isn't possible. Go play with Wortox's skills tree. Even Neutral isn't possible when playing solo unless you drop Naughty skills in favor of something that literally won't benefit you in a meaningful way. It's just the byproduct of half of the skill tree only providing value in multiplayer. This change is bad, exclusively singles out one type of player, and they simply brought back a feature we already decided we didn't enjoy. Nothing is stopping them from doing something better to "fix" this. This was not a good choice and there's alternatives that could be explored, easily.

 

9 minutes ago, Dingle said:

For the most part, I'm not bothering posting about Walter or Wortox until the devs are back from vacation.

Until they respond, it's pretty much just the "Sisturn III Discussion Forums" now.

LMAO You're so right, bestie. I love that there's 40 threads about the same exact subject. It does seem like someone at least is still looking at the forums, since I've noticed a couple locked topics, but of course it could easily be the wrong person to see this.

Imagine being Canadian and getting this much time off during the holidays. I wish I lived in a country that was nice to their workers. Sad!

[Y0sH]

13 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I quite dont know that after the newest hotfix, a battle focusing build with nice result become possible already. what problems remained?

The 20hp self heal got reduced to 15hp. Sounds like a rather small issue on paper but in game it's far more annoying considering that in the Naughty tree you're incentivized to hoard souls for already lack luster Decoy and Soul damage.

[Dingle]

7 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

It does seem like someone at least is still looking at the forums, since I've noticed a couple locked topics, but of course it could easily be the wrong person to see this.

Imagine being Canadian and getting this much time off during the holidays. I wish I lived in a country that was nice to their workers. Sad!

I believe they said they have people to monitor threads and compile issues.

The chilling effect is mostly just that discussion between other Wortox/Walter players seems pointless if the forum gets like this.

[Picklesaurus]

A funny thought I just had is if instead of less healing naughty wortox would be hated by more neutral mobs, imagine naughty Wortox being hated by bees, goats, bearger, spelunky, beefalos (without saddle), koalefant, bunny king, krampus, treeguards, saladmanders, I just find the idea of naughty wortox having stolen or done something so bad to them that they never forget and hate him forever really funny.

[ApoIIo]

On 12/16/2024 at 7:43 PM, Picklesaurus said:

A funny thought I just had is if instead of less healing naughty wortox would be hated by more neutral mobs, imagine naughty Wortox being hated by bees, goats, bearger, spelunky, beefalos (without saddle), koalefant, bunny king, krampus, treeguards, saladmanders, I just find the idea of naughty wortox having stolen or done something so bad to them that they never forget and hate him forever really funny.

Bunny king already hates him fyi, but this would be funny yet loathsome.

[Picklesaurus]

6 minutes ago, ApoIIo said:

Bunny king already hates him fyi, but this would be funny yet loathsome.

Yes, it would be funny but people didn't seem to like. It would be a good perk for Wes tho, I'm looking foward to a Wes skill tree and I think this would fit well as a negative skill if Wes had to take some bad/negative skills to get good/positive skills.

[z3rox12]

On 12/12/2024 at 11:21 AM, arubaro said:

With that branch you get a lot of souls fast and you can store an insane ammount of them... is fair to lose healing

In my playthrow i barely needed to cook food for hunger and all the healing came from the souls 

I'm doing this exactly, I can easily store souls and mass murder bees. My base is nexto to killer bee biome and dont even pick up food anymore. Souls do not spoil, and can walk arround.

Tackling sanity issue. Gloomer's goop if you want to farm nightmare fuel and good old tam o shaltel for sanity gain. Anything else is pointless.

[YouKnowWho142]

I'm curious since I haven't done much wortox, does the existence of soul jars (and thus the invalidation of soul management) not invalidate any heal nerf from the naughty side? I personally really enjoy the idea of thematic downsides from a skill tree, since I personally enjoy the downsides of characters just as much as the upsides. A slight heal nerf for a skillset more dedicated to damage seems reasonable, and if the argument is solo play then I cannot imagine how needing to use 1-2 more souls to heal to full would make the biggest impact when you can carry several times more souls anyway

I get that the concern is solo play, but naughty inclination already has inherent buffs to improve the solo experience through his other stats, if you want more healing it is what the nice inclination seems designed for

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

A slight heal nerf for a skillset more dedicated to damage seems reasonable

Except you can get the soul jar and damage skills without the inclination. The naughty perk only gives you some overload protection. The 0 sanity loss from eating souls is equally invalidated by soul jars. (The real drawback is you can't release souls for CC crown.)

In the end, nerfed healing just means you need to click more times.

Broke:
Woke:

[Echsrick]

ok but ONLY if team healing is alsol lowered, and ONLY then its acheptable, because it realy does not make sense that wortox somehow heals less himself but somehow heal still the same on others

[Bumber64]

7 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

ok but ONLY if team healing is alsol lowered, and ONLY then its acheptable, because it realy does not make sense that wortox somehow heals less himself but somehow heal still the same on others

Maybe the souls don't like him very much?

[Echsrick]

9 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Maybe the souls don't like him very much?

there souls, there HIS power, he CLAIMS the souls to be his and his only, he forces the souls to do his bidding, and if he says they sould heal the soul has to do it

[Radicaljoe]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I'm curious since I haven't done much wortox, does the existence of soul jars (and thus the invalidation of soul management) not invalidate any heal nerf from the naughty side?

Basically yeah, you heal 5 less but can heal yourself with another soul for basically nothing. Both of the changes for the healing are pretty redundant. I'm not a fan of Nice inclination because Wortox has always healed the team well, doing it 2% better is not interesting to me. But never making crockpot food and having a chance to prevent overload? Now that's interesting! 

[OMEGASCRUFF]

3 hours ago, Radicaljoe said:

Basically yeah, you heal 5 less but can heal yourself with another soul for basically nothing. Both of the changes for the healing are pretty redundant. I'm not a fan of Nice inclination because Wortox has always healed the team well, doing it 2% better is not interesting to me. But never making crockpot food and having a chance to prevent overload? Now that's interesting! 

That's not what the Nice inclination does, though. I think a lot of what you're remembering was changed quite awhile ago. The value of the Nice inclination is that is lets you fairly easily manage your sanity with Souls and Souls alone. There is no difference in healing between Nice, Naughty, or Neutral, with the only exception being Naughty for yourself only, by 25%. There was no change to the Hunger value of Souls on Naughty either, only the sanity drain, which has never been an issue anyways.

I can live without crockpot food easily on Nice inclination, but you're probably going to want them eventually anyways on any inclination. Not really much else to do with all that extra food, and it provides faster sanity control as well. I just left all food drops on the ground during progression until post-CC after getting Banana Bushes together from Moon Quay, when crockpots became worthwhile again to support the Enlightened Crown and eliminate nightmares for good.

5 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

In the end, nerfed healing just means you need to click more times.

This is obviously an oversimplification, but let's assume this is the case, which it seems some people are doing. What even is the point, when this specifically impacts solo players? More clicks and more farming time for solo players specifically is not good game design, lmao. What is fun or interesting about this? How does it help balance the pros and cons to Naughty and Nice?? Why was it even necessary if it's just "more clicks"??? Shouldn't it be removed in favor of something actually interesting if it's just "more clicks"???? When I'm framing this change the same way as opponents of this thread, it's clear that you're just trashing your own argument when you just diminish its significance like this. This isn't a a valid argument against the removal of the self-heal nerf. It's neutral yapping.

But this isn't even considering that this change doesn't even make any sense. Nice inclination is better already, so why are we making the difference even more drastic? Nice inclination, when compared directly to Naughty inclination, provides a real and usable functionality for Souls in accessible sanity control, while Naughty just comes with the complete loss of sanity control and the negation of a character downside that was always avoidable in the first place, and just makes it easy to be negligent. But now I have to spend a bit more time farming Souls for no reason, too. Great, thanks for nothing.

I never said it's a monumental, game-changing nerf. It's just obnoxious, targeted, and bad design. Still haven't seen a single argument for how this makes anything more fun or interesting. I don't care how small a bad choice is on a skill tree. If it's bad, it should be removed. I prefer my products are polished, and, if you can't tell by the rest of the skill tree, this product is not polished at all.

I don't know why these forums (and consumers in general) are so permissive of this kind of crap. I expect better design decisions made behind my products, by paid professionals. Though, this isn't surprising at all, considering the lack of thought behind everything else this update. I get why it's hard to care when we're simultaneously being fed rubbish like Nabsacker and Cloudy Carmine and Soul Bastion. And whatever the hell else is happening with the other characters. But this design choice is boring and annoying, and does nothing to serve anyone. Remove it. Do something else.

Love that the Soul Jar just screwed everything up on the inclinations by giving us hundreds of Souls and reward for bulk farming. This would be a total no-brainer without it. Souls are individually worthless and nobody can set expectations anymore because of it. Everything always circles back around to this thoughtless item. It tramples on everything across the entire skill tree. Ugh.

[YouKnowWho142]

23 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

I don't know why these forums (and consumers in general) are so permissive of this kind of crap. I expect better design decisions made behind my products, by paid professionals. Though, this isn't surprising at all, considering the lack of thought behind everything else this update. I get why it's hard to care when we're simultaneously being fed rubbish like Nabsacker and Cloudy Carmine and Soul Bastion. And whatever the hell else is happening with the other characters. But this design choice is boring and annoying, and does nothing to serve anyone. Remove it. Do something else.

?????

Don't even know what to say about that

[OMEGASCRUFF]

16 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

?????

Don't even know what to say about that

ok.

[Radicaljoe]

4 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

That's not what the Nice inclination does, though. I think a lot of what you're remembering was changed quite awhile ago.

Probably should have stated it more clearly, Naughty Wortox heals himself for 5 less is what I meant. 
For naughty the free soul food thing is fun, but I think the main buff is the soul storage time before you explode with souls.
It's kinda cool the way Naughty and Nice mirror eachother. Nice the soul benefit is the better upside, Naughty the innate effect is the better upside.

[Koomin]

It does seem backwards that naughty Wortox heals himself for less but others for the same amount.  That's the opposite of a naughty thing to do, and is more selfless. It would make more sense if he healed others for less and was more greedy himself.