walter I'm beginning to wonder if Walter really needs non slingshot/Woby skills...

[Mysterious box]

I mean no offense when I say this but my biggest issue so far with skills being recommended outside of the slingshot and Woby is that most of the skills suggested seem to be far too niche to ever consider using which has really been turning me off the idea of Klei even making skills outside of those two don't get me wrong there are some creative ideas and personally that's not my area of expertise for designing skills but idk I'm just worried that Walter's skills made outside of Woby and his slingshot could end up becoming completely forgettable.

I feel like if we're going to make skills for it they should be something that either assists his gameplay loop or gives him a avenue of expertise.

[PunkShark]

I don't think he outright needs it but it just feels incomplete and weird that the boyscout doesn't have any boyscout related skill perks.
When it comes to the skill trees it feels like they at least touch upon all of their baseskills or more, or enhance their skills. And while Walter is a ranged character and Woby related, Walter has the least amount of skills atm compared to everyone else, so there really isn't much an incentive to pick more things than there are other than you have to.

 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, PunkShark said:

I don't think he outright needs it but it just feels incomplete and weird that the boyscout doesn't have any boyscout related skill perks.
When it comes to the skill trees it feels like they at least touch upon all of their baseskills or more, or enhance their skills. And while Walter is a ranged character and Woby related, Walter has the least amount of skills atm compared to everyone else, so there really isn't much an incentive to pick more things than there are other than you have to.

 

I do agree he needs more skills but most of what I'm seeing suggested under boyscout perks feel like they're primarily being suggested to tick the boyscout check box rather than actually focusing on being useful. I just wish what was requested was less hyper specific or at least if it is make it that way because it ties into his abilities.

[Lee Sy]

Sling shot and Woby must be the most distinguishing features of Walter. But I also agree he deserves more, there are still other features, they shouldn't be forgotten.

[cyjs]

I won't give Woby too many skill points because the benefits are not as good as training the cow.

The benefits of woby should be much greater than that of training cows

[Copyafriend]

Good point. Let me think for a bit i'll try to come up with some.

Positive attitude

Walter gets a slight sanity regeneration effect while at full health (something like 1.33 to 3 sanity per minute, to help newer players with his sanity)

Experienced pinetree pioneer

Craft survival equipment cheaper

(Rope, tent, straw roll, trap, birdtrap, etc)

 

Skilled sling user

small animals killed with slingshot roll drop table twice

 

Sailing badge

Boats always behave like walter has a bandana on

 

Wow this is really hard to think of some proper boyscout/pinetree pioneer perks 

 

[Mysterious box]

20 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Good point. Let me think for a bit i'll try to come up with some.

Positive attitude

Walter gets a slight sanity regeneration effect while at full health (something like 1.33 to 3 sanity per minute, to help newer players with his sanity)

Experienced pinetree pioneer

Craft survival equipment cheaper

(Rope, tent, straw roll, trap, birdtrap, etc)

 

Skilled sling user

small animals killed with slingshot roll drop table twice

 

Sailing badge

Boats always behave like walter has a bandana on

 

Wow this is really hard to think of some proper boyscout/pinetree pioneer perks 

It is hard it's given me even more respect for his existing scout skills.

20 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Positive attitude

Walter gets a slight sanity regeneration effect while at full health (something like 1.33 to 3 sanity per minute, to help newer players with his sanity)

Woby's support badge already does this.

22 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Craft survival equipment cheaper

(Rope, tent, straw roll, trap, birdtrap, etc)

Grass isn't as hard to gather as wood. Also his tent already makes other tents redundant. There's also not much reason to catch multiple birds.

24 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Skilled sling user

small animals killed with slingshot roll drop table twice

While this can work gold rounds are already cheap so committing a skill to doubling the loot feels too niche

[cyjs]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

It is hard it's given me even more respect for his existing scout skills.

Woby's support badge already does this.

Grass isn't as hard to gather as wood. Also his tent already makes other tents redundant. There's also not much reason to catch multiple birds.

While this can work gold rounds are already cheap so committing a skill to doubling the loot feels too niche

Do you want every skill to be useful?

 

I fully support，klei should do this

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, cyjs said:

Do you want every skill to be useful?

 

I fully support，klei should do this

Depends on how useful you mean when I say hyper specific skills should tie into a character I mean like how Wendy has her butterfly skill to empower abigial yes it's crazy specific but it ties into another stronger skill. As for perks that stand on their own I look to something like Wurt's mosquito branch, or Wendy's flower crown where the abilities aren't super strong but they offer enough unique utility that they stand on their own.

I'm not asking for something powerful just something that builds on Walter or gives him a unique new avenue like

[flamboyant wolf]

Personally, I would be fine without em, but if someone can think of something useful or otherwise appealing, then sure.

[cyjs]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Depends on how useful you mean when I say hyper specific skills should tie into a character I mean like how Wendy has her butterfly skill to empower abigial yes it's crazy specific but it ties into another stronger skill. As for perks that stand on their own I look to something like Wurt's mosquito branch, or Wendy's flower crown where the abilities aren't super strong but they offer enough unique utility that they stand on their own.

I'm not asking for something powerful just something that builds on Walter or gives him a unique new avenue like

The Wendy's Resurrection Butterfly is expensive,  and the Wendy's Wreath has no practicality, don't talk to me about Wendy，She's not as good as you think

I think woby should have more space to use，Can be upgraded in some way

[hyoton123]

I was kind of hoping for a follower related line personally, specifically hounds. He's even already got one!

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, cyjs said:

The Wendy's Resurrection Butterfly is expensive,  and the Wendy's Wreath has no practicality, don't talk to me about Wendy，She's not as good as you think

The skill is expensive but that doesn't mean the concept isn't a good one just needs tweaked

The Wreath is utility packed with things like a moggles alternative I feel like your expecting too much utility out of a single skill point even if some are less good.

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

The skill is expensive but that doesn't mean the concept isn't a good one just needs tweaked

The Wreath is utility packed with things like a moggles alternative I feel like your expecting too much utility out of a single skill point even if some are less good.

Let's talk about Walter. It's not a good place to talk about Wendy.

[Soul7k]

10 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The skill is expensive but that doesn't mean the concept isn't a good one just needs tweaked

The Wreath is utility packed with things like a moggles alternative I feel like your expecting too much utility out of a single skill point even if some are less good.

it's one of those things that works in tandem with the pipspook  stuff. its a lot of point investment to make the shadow work smoothly, but I don't dislike it. I digress

The community has been spitballing like crazy for walter. I hope he gets something interesting. right now 8 points that are just shots is a little...much and it could definitely be condensed also the woby tree is kinda counterintuitive since there is no incentive go all in on it since you can't even fit everything on Woby, because of this I think the Woby training should be condensed too

Right now I am kinda interested in a possible side grade/portable lean-to or upgraded/portable jerky rack some people have suggested

[Mysterious box]

26 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

The community has been spitballing like crazy for walter. I hope he gets something interesting. right now 8 points that are just shots is a little...much and it could definitely be condensed

Agree though I'm wondering if leaning harder into Woby would probably be the better idea with only maybe 1 to 3 abilities being scouting related since it's not easy making skills for that while Woby opens up far more possibilities easier.

[HokahokaPancake]

52 minutes ago, hyoton123 said:

I was kind of hoping for a follower related line personally, specifically hounds. He's even already got one!

I agree.
I want Walter to have follower-related skills.
The follower-related skills I've thought of so far are as follows.

- Pigs and rabbits equipped with a Pinetree Pioneer Hat become Walter's followers.

- Beefalo attacked with pooppellets go into heat.

- Beefalo associated with Beefalo Bells owned by Walter or Woby will progress to domestication.

(If it's OP: Beefalo's domesticity will not decrease.)

- Shooting healing pellets at mobs or other players will heal them.

 

Although not follower-related, I also thought of the following skills.

- Walter can build a sleigh that BigWoby can carry. The maximum number of sleighs that can be carried is 2-3. On the sleigh, you can build Crock pots, Science Machines, Fire Pits, etc. If you don't build anything on the sleigh, mobs and other players can ride on it.

 

 

[aidankocherhans]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Grass isn't as hard to gather as wood

Grass is a highly valuable and heavily in-demand item, I don't know what you're talking about. A Walter with more efficient rope crafting would be a boon to any team

[xhyom]

Can you give some examples? I haven't seen many on this topic out there. But anyway, I think that if they are reasonable to do some flavor perks wouldn't hurt I guess? Some things I thought of seem kind of redundant for someone who has easy access to ranged damage, like reduced costs for traps and healing salves. Maybe something for gathering and tracking, but it doesn't seem very relevant to me.

Tree sap?...

I think I'd really prefer if Woby was the focus, improving her ability to collect items from the ground, digging with her should be more interactive, almost like Wendy's ghosts, less random and more like a treasure hunt with better prizes, maybe Woby could dig up the trunks of cut trees too.

 

[Mysterious box]

10 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

Grass is a highly valuable and heavily in-demand item, I don't know what you're talking about. A Walter with more efficient rope crafting would be a boon to any team

What are you using all those ropes on? I find just having 20-40 grass tuffs at base is more than enough for all my groups grass needs which is what sets this apart from Woodie as Wood is generally needed in much higher amounts for a lot of crafts.

13 minutes ago, xhyom said:

Can you give some examples? I haven't seen many on this topic out there. But anyway, I think that if they are reasonable to do some flavor perks wouldn't hurt I guess? Some things I thought of seem kind of redundant for someone who has easy access to ranged damage, like reduced costs for traps and healing salves. Maybe something for gathering and tracking, but it doesn't seem very relevant to me.

Tree sap?...

I think I'd really prefer if Woby was the focus, improving her ability to collect items from the ground, digging with her should be more interactive, almost like Wendy's ghosts, less random and more like a treasure hunt with better prizes, maybe Woby could dig up the trunks of cut trees too.

 

I don't want to give too many specific examples because I don't want to make this a call out post for people I just don't want a whole branch dedicated to niche ability that don't have much use outside of roleplay like fsster hunts or bonus resources when we already have dig.

[Copyafriend]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

It is hard it's given me even more respect for his existing scout skills.

Woby's support badge already does this.

Grass isn't as hard to gather as wood. Also his tent already makes other tents redundant. There's also not much reason to catch multiple birds.

While this can work gold rounds are already cheap so committing a skill to doubling the loot feels too niche

No i completely agree, it was what i could think up quickly, and they're all pretty meh. 

 

The regular tent IS still superior to his portable one for basing, due to how much durability they have. But again, you wouldnt need tents in bulk.

I was hoping someone else might suggest more or better "survival gear" but tbh i dont want his tab overwhelmed with a ton of meh items that you get a discount on. Rope was really the main benefit imho and it was still only decent.

More meat is nice from birds (because its basically free food that you can dry for small jerky or make bunny stew)

But again its niche. Most walter players arent hunting birds or rabbits very often.

The problem is, its a survival game, all survival gear is already covered. We can already even make a better tent for "camping" as walter.

I mean there's a perk to give him a bigger discovery radius, and while thats nice its also only an early game benefit.

 

Maybe a perk to let him see farther (more zoomed out?)

 

Or a perk to make tools last longer?

(Like, taking care of your stuff?)

 

Idk ive been thinking and i really cant think of anything that both feels scoutsy and also is really good and worth doing.

 

[Juanasdf]

I've tried to stay away from the forums during this beta... for obvious reasons... but  I wanted to give my two cents and yeah, I agree he needs some perks besides ammo, slingshot and Woby. Hopefully it can be done after the holiday break.

I played around 90 days of Walter with his new skill tree and the sanity drain feels very harsh. Dragonfly (one of the most basic bosses, yes) took me like 5 attempts to succeed just because of how harsh his sanity drain is. Granted it was the first boss I tried and I learnt that I had to stockpile sanity food whereas some other characters don't really need to.

I do agree that he could use some sanity regen while unmounted from Woby besides the forest and campfire perk? Something that doesn't involve standing still for a while or being right next to trees.

As for his ammo perks... I feel like some of them are pretty redundant. Mainly the stinger ammo, because moonglass exists. The others... are fine ig? I don't feel like I can criticize him much because I really haven't played him as much as others. But I do feel like having 3 different slowing rounds is excessive (granted one of them is post rift). I'm talking about honey rounds, slow down rounds and icker rounds.

What I would suggest is removing the stinger rounds, maybe the honey rounds too, and thus reduce the amount of points needed to unlock his ammo craft skills (the ones that give +5 and +10 ammo per craft) and give him a couple of points into a different line of perks related to sanity drain.

The first one could give one free hit on a cooldown, would help with random hits from daily fighting

The second one could give an added % reduction just from taking it, a low value like 10% or 15% that would add up to his pinetreee pioneer hat or the forest reduction.

And the third... I guess some passive sanity regen when his health is topped off.

Eventually these perks wouldn't be as important because you get to use CC crown and train Woby to max solidarity, which helps with sanity too. Speaking of Woby...

Can we make her not panic with maxed out badges? She could still buck you off and run away for a bit, but it takes quite some time to max her badges out and by that point she should be used to Walter picking fights.

And also make her immune to fire? Or if she does catch on fire make it a controlled fire like Willow. I had the same issue twice where she panicked from being on fire and she managed to burn my backpack twice lol. Good god girl get a grip, you're immortal.

EDIT: Overall he felt good to play. His slingshot still feels a bit lackluster to be fair, but the special attacks are a good direction. At some points it was cool to use, like the freezing AOE rounds. But for fighting? 99% of the time you're better off using melee, which has a higher DPS. The rest of the time is just pathfinding abuse or sniping from boats.

[aidankocherhans]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

What are you using all those ropes on? I find just having 20-40 grass tuffs at base is more than enough for all my groups grass needs which is what sets this apart from Woodie as Wood is generally needed in much higher amounts for a lot of crafts.

???

Grass and rope are used for countless crafts, and a majority of the important and frequently used ones. You don't have to gather as much if you don't have to use as much. Wood can be mass produced by any character that can befriend pigs

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, aidankocherhans said:

Grass is a highly valuable and heavily in-demand item, I don't know what you're talking about. A Walter with more efficient rope crafting would be a boon to any team

In the first place, Ropes should be craftable in bulk with just like boards at Sawhorse. My personal grudge for me as a Woody main

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

???

Grass and rope are used for countless crafts, and a majority of the important and frequently used ones. You don't have to gather as much if you don't have to use as much. Wood can be mass produced by any character that can befriend pigs

Even with pigs grass is still far faster to collect and it only gets faster with the shadow reaper. I know there are crafts that use grass I just don't find myself in dire need of it even in a larger group especially with Walter who is more mobile than most characters though I think it'd be nice to instead just meet in the middle and have Woby able to pick from harvestable resources which I think would make his harvesting ability a lot better but in a less niche way.

29 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

The regular tent IS still superior to his portable one for basing, due to how much durability they have. But again, you wouldnt need tents in bulk.

Perhaps I see it as his tent being cheaper and mobile at the cost of 5 less uses which I see as a fair trade even if it used to just be a straight upgrade before they buffed tents.(which is a shockingly common trend for Walter's perks)

31 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

More meat is nice from birds (because its basically free food that you can dry for small jerky or make bunny stew)

So I've mentioned before but I think a drying rack hat that dries things faster with movement like the uncomp mod Walter would be a neat way to manage not only his sanity but make monster jerky for Woby. Someone also proposed instead making it a attachment for Woby instead but with the same mechanics.