walter This Walter rework mod was launched shortly before the beta of Walter skill tree, and it has almost or some ideas that the community wants for Walter.

[_mylilsunshine_]

Disclaimer: this thread isn't meant to promote the following mod, I can't even read Chinese.

Walter, the Fearless (BigLie) Teenager

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3367240659&searchtext=

Here are some of the changes,

Walter's "perk soup":

• Fear of pain:
  Now when Walter is attacked by Boss creatures, Shadow creatures, and Monster creatures, this creature will inflict a 20s/8s/4s fear effect on Walter (25s for Klaus, wearing a pioneer hat and riding a bull will reduce this time but not be fully immune). For the duration of the effect, if Walter is too close to the creature that attacked him, he will not be able to attack the creature out of fear."
• Fear of bee:
  The fear of fatal allergies is deeply rooted in Walter's heart. When the [Sticky Ointment] (new craft for Walter, think of it as allergy meds) is not in effect, Walter refuses to use the insect net to interact with the bees and refuses to harvest the beehive.
• Walter does not consume durability when using the Portable Tent Roll himself.
   

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no personal comment on these changes, although while the fear of pain kind of touches on how Walter is afraid to get hurt (losing sanity), it's too harsh of a downside.

Walter's Pinetree Pioneer hat:

• When Walter wears the hat, his potential is stimulated. When his hunger is > 50, he consumes an additional 0.75 hunger to shoot 1 bullet with a slingshot (the damage of this bullet is 85% of the original bullet, with attenuation).
• After upgrading Walter's hat (with an Enlightened Shard), Walter's potential can be released to the extreme, and 2 more bullets will be fired for a total of 4 shots (damage attenuation is 50% after the first shot). Gives 2.5 planar damage/bullet. Enhance wetness & insulation value, gives 20% movement speed. Fully immune to the Fear of Pain.
• When given to a Pigman, recruit the Pigman as a Pine Vanguard. As long as the Pigman does not change his hat, he can follow Walter forever and gain the ability to recover health naturally. In battle, the Vanguard will take the lead and transfer the enemy's hatred to himself.
   

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attenuation: the reduction of the force, effect, or value of something.

i think these are great, giving players another reason to CRAFT AND WEAR the signature hat in combat instead of just to deal with the sanity downside (which could be solved by wearing high %prot armor anyway). the condition for the extra bullet is reasonable, and having an upgraded version let it still be viable in the endgame, competing with the Enlightened Crown.

also i love that the hat is used to recruit pigmen, because no boy scouts are alone. it even allow pigmen to have a taunt effect.

Slingshot:

• Most ammunition now has a [Return] setting. Bullet does not necessarily break after hitting the target, but bounces to the ground (some ammunition will have special effects when not triggering recovery). The return probability of each bullet is different.
• All ammunition that can be returned is 100% returned if it kills.
• The bullets Walter picks up will automatically go into the slingshot instead of the inventory (author's comment: this little detail i have endured from Klei for a long time), and at the same time pick up all the ammunition with a stack count of 1 within a certain range. This change applies to all newly added slingshots.
• Ancient Slingshot (new craft): when holding, automatically pickup the bullet that dropped from [Return], +10% movement speed, and other effects (that I can't fully translate).
• Moonlight Slingshot (new craft): +12 Attack range, when Walter's sanity is > 20%, continue to reveal enemies in the dark blind zone (i guess it lights up enemies in the dark). 
• Other Slingshot crafts and perks that I can't fully translate and/or test.
   

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since this mod doesn't improve how much ammo you get per craft, i think ammo return is a neat way to buff ammo economy, especially when you pick up one ammo, the rest will automatically be picked up as well. and if you're thinking about infinite gold, it's really not that overpowered.

Ammo

• With the original 8 types of ammunition, this mod has a total of up to 30 types of ammunition to choose from.
• Pebble (old): 50% refund, can cause a small area damage of 10 points (kinda like the new Stinger round, but with less damage). Can now be crafted with Flint. 15 ammo per craft.
• Marble (old): 57.5% refund, damage increased to 59.5, inflicting small knockback effect.
• Cactus Ball (new): 27 dmg for the initial hit, having a Damage Over Time (DOT) effect causing 200 damage over 15s. When the ammo is on the ground, it applies the DOT effect to the creature step on it.
• Electromagnetic Gold (new): basically Shockscrap round (also uses 01 Saffron feather to craft), but less damage: 51 base, 85 when wet. 
• Night Bomb (new): crafted using 01 Nightmare Fuel, 68 dmg, 0.75 sanity cost per attack, basically budget Dark Sword.
• Garlic Shell (new): inflicts a 5-second range panic effect and kills all bats and ghosts in this range in seconds. Inflicts Hard Control on Shadow Creatures for 5 seconds (e.g. Lurking Shadows will not trigger Counter Strikes during this Hard Control) (i just thought this is funny).
• Water Bomb (new): no return, wet the target and extinguish the surrounding flames and irrigate the surrounding farmland, if the target has a Wetness meter, an additional 25 points of Wetness will be added.
• Incendiary Munitions (new): crafted using 01 Red gem. 17 dmg and lights the target on fire.
• And a lot more utility ammo (healing, sleeping, etc.), as well as Rift-related ammo (also WARBIS-related).
   

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obviously some of the new rounds are a bit overtuned, but that's just how modding is. the main point is that a variety in utility and damage options is sorely needed.

New Crafts:

• Portable Campfire: can be placed and recycled like a tent roll (only Walter can recycle), can emit hot or cold fire, allows Walter to perform campfire story. The current fuel level can be stored when it is properly recovered rather than crudely destroyed, and it will automatically return to the fuel level at the time of storage when it is next placed. When a bullet pass through/is shot over the fire, it will gain additional effects. Exactly like Torchwood in PvZ lol, which I think is cool
• Pine Pioneer Ammo Pack:
  * A portable container similar to the Battle sub-canister that holds 8 slots of ammunition. Delay 50% of rotting time of items inside (for new ammo with a Freshness meter.
• Vanguard Standard Dog Food: crafted using  2 small meat jerky/1 meat jerky),1 monster meat jerky, 1 bone shard. Is a food (Meat) item, no Freshness, provides 37 hunger/-5 sanity. When fed to Woby, +90 hunger, increase speed by 20% in 4 minutes, and Walter who feeds Wobby will also recover 25 sanity.
   

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ammo bag, enough said. and a portable campfire would improve his base perk soup soooooooo much, not to mention the Torchwood effect. and having another way to feed Woby at once (instead of forcing 4 meat down) is so nice, with that being said:

Woby:

• Wobi is no longer limited to accepting monster food, but can accept most foods, with a meat absorption efficiency of 100% and a vegetarian absorption efficiency of only 60%.

• The hunger limit of Woby is now adjusted to 200/400 (of course, the hunger rate is also increased), allowing Walter to feed Woby directly while riding. If you feed Woby while riding, you can pacify Woby and return its injury counter to 0 (Woby will drop Walter when the counter reaches 8).

• When in Big Wobi form and being ridden by Walter, Wobi can consume his satiety to perform long-distance jumps, horn attacks, and other actions.
  [Horn Attack]: Let Big Wobi destroy the workable target, each destruction consumes a little satiety.

• When riding a Wobi, you can directly Alt+right-click the Wobi to open the Wobi container, which greatly improves the interactivity of the Wobi storage capacity.

• Wobi's 9-slot container now delays food spoilage by 35%.

• Playing with Little Woby can restore 10 points of sanity for Walter. Cooldown is 4 minutes.

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these changes might not be as dynamic as fetch, dig, etc. but they are desperately needed to improve the QOL of Woby, stop her from being a chore to have. literally, you can feed and access her inventory while riding her. 

Conclusion & personal comment:

The original documentation will be attached below, and it was translated using Matecat, an open-source computer-assisted translation tool (not a promotion, and not AI-based).

The devs claimed that there are not enough Walter players to generate feedback and ideas on how Walter is/should be changed. Well here it is, a mod (which I believe to be high effort enough to be considered seriously) from a player. While the numbers might be a bit silly, the ideas are there, and they are GREAT. The mod acknowledges some core traits of Walter (campfire, pinetree hat, etc.) while giving him the tool that he needed for survival/support (ammo bag, upgrades, new ammo, etc.).

What do you think? Are these the directions that you want for the Walter skill tree? Please keep in mind that a lot of information on the new Slingshots and ammo crafts were omitted because I cannot read or translate Chinese. Also, you can shoot Butter like the Kernel-pult in PvZ.

沃尔特质量更新全解.docx

[Steorra]

Only response for the title - this is same for Wendy.

But I'm not sure if someone kindly would do similar explanation like what you did.

I hope Klei would consider your advices here. Also I hope Klei would check these unofficial skill tree mods considerably . Since the mod seems already be a bit popular for the community.

[_mylilsunshine_]

That brings up another question: should the game be developed in the vision of the developers, or the playerbase? Of course the devs are updating and changing the game with the feedback and suggestions of the players in mind, but how much creative freedom are the devs allowed to have before it becomes too disconnected from what the players want? Lately forum discussions have not been as productive as it is toxic.

[_mylilsunshine_]

Damn the post engagement is kinda dead. Hopefully this thread will pick up speed since I believe it's quite relevant and important

[Koomin]

The Woby food that is a craftable and doesn't spoil is a cool idea.

[MisterBilly]

I actually quite like what the devs have done for Walter, and dislike a bit from the listed mod. Annoying cc's to the player that strip him of character control (a game design no-no), super late game reliance on cc mats, the hat (everyone hates the hat don't lie, it's just a waste of an important slot that makes it tedious and annoying when you would other wise wear something much more useful.)

Not to mention it really does seem a lot like perk soup instead of having focus like the dev tree, focusing on a bunch of minute perks that are barely game play affecting. I see a couple of decent ones, like recruiting pig men, but the devs did good already. Much love.

[_mylilsunshine_]

2 minutes ago, MisterBilly said:

1. Annoying cc's to the player that strip him of character control (a game design no-no)
2. Super late game reliance on cc mats
3. the hat (everyone hates the hat don't lie, it's just a waste of an important slot that makes it tedious and annoying when you would other wise wear something much more useful.)

4. Not to mention it really does seem a lot like perk soup instead of having focus like the dev tree, focusing on a bunch of minute perks that are barely game play affecting. I see a couple of decent ones, like recruiting pig men, but the devs did good already.

Much love.

1. I'm not sure if I understand this point, do you mind elaborating on it?

2. In the current beta, half or one-third of what's relevant to Walter is locked behind Rift content: Void grip, Jelly grip (not really but Bee Queen is still a huge hurdle for Walter), Possessed Band, Pure Horror (not easily-renewable)/Brilliance round, Dreadstone round (not easily-renewable), Brightshade round, Icky round, Scrappier frame. How is that better than what is presented in the mod? You can craft new pre-Rifts ammo, the Pinetree provides a buff to Slingshot instantly the moment you load in, the Campfire provides a buff to ammo, Woby gets a buff from her special food, etc. The mod helps Walter a lot with his pre-Rifts phase.

3. I did acknowledge how outclassed the Pinetree Hat currently is, especially for an exclusive item that has a lot of skins. It's like Wigfrid's shield. That's why buffing/changing it can be good, so it can be on par with other gear. Not sure what do you mean by "tedious and annoying" though.

4. The mod has changes to perk soup alongside the Slingshot + ammo & Woby, which are the focus of the dev tree. Whatever the current dev tree has, this mod has like 7-0-80% of it or even more. Giving thoughts to perk soup develops him as a character IMO.

Thank you for your input.

[Crimson Hollow]

Really dig that portable campfire idea, it can even be modded using nm fuel to get an enhanced sanity regen effect when he's telling stories or maybe summon mobs from his story xd

The dog food idea is amazing as well. 

 

[kroban]

1 hour ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

In the current beta, half or one-third of what's relevant to Walter is locked behind Rift content

I disagree, the current skill tree did an awesome job at giving relevant things for Walter on all stages in the game, the difference is that its more like a progress type of thing. But half the things you mentioned being "post-rift" are mostly upgrades from things you already get earlier. Like, icker rounds are QoL purple rounds, brightshade rounds are cursed rounds but with a bit more damage, and scrappier frame is the early game version but with infinite slot. Void grip is the endgame upgrade for speed but silk grip is already pretty good, even more the jelly grip

When it comes to dreadstone and pure horror...I mean I agree that it is hard to get pre-rift, but Klei most likely already knows that those things are "dupeable", I think Wanda players love to dupe that **** to have multiple armor for example, so its nothing new.  But IMO the most relevant thing out of the entire skill tree is the thulecite frame, and you can craft that on the first winter and without even being some "tryhard rusher", you can get it out of Woby digging thulecite, or hammering some archive walls and wait for earthquakes to drop gems lol

[Mysterious box]

Honestly it's a mixture of thnigs I think are interesting and don't like but more so on the negative with this one I think Klei could use this as inspiration for when they touch up Walter after the break but I really wouldn't want this to be what Walter is like. I will respect the effort that went into this mod though.

29 minutes ago, kroban said:

But IMO the most relevant thing out of the entire skill tree is the thulecite frame, and you can craft that on the first winter and without even being some "tryhard rusher", you can get it out of Woby digging thulecite, or hammering some archive walls and wait for earthquakes to drop gems lol

 

I regret to inform you but...

Honestly though I can get why people will take issue with the accessibility of Walter's tree as he requires far more knowledge and skill to take advantage of his tree than any before him which is quite the contrast to most characters who just click a button and unlock their powerup. Don't get me wrong though I like it but that's gonna be a sore spot for a lot of people.

[_mylilsunshine_]

2 hours ago, kroban said:

I disagree, the current skill tree did an awesome job at giving relevant things for Walter on all stages in the game, the difference is that its more like a progress type of thing. But half the things you mentioned being "post-rift" are mostly upgrades from things you already get earlier. Like, icker rounds are QoL purple rounds, brightshade rounds are cursed rounds but with a bit more damage, and scrappier frame is the early game version but with infinite slot. Void grip is the endgame upgrade for speed but silk grip is already pretty good, even more the jelly grip

I do acknowledge that the content progression for Walter is actually pretty good now, great even. That's why I said "half or one-third of the tree" lol. It's just that I feel like the new skill tree fills in the end-game progression, while the mod has some merits for the early and mid-game rounds and upgrades.

Kleeeeeeeei, let me shoot butter, and my life is yooooooooooooooours

[mima_]

good girl deserve her snax XD 

 

[kroban]

12 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

 

I regret to inform you but...

I mean my example for getting thulecite frame was more in like how quickly you could get the materials without having to sweat bullets on a ruins rush, you are still required to go to the station sure but like ,you can get the materials pretty easily even if other people were to rush ruins on the first days (which atleast on the server I play tends to happen quite a lot lol)

12 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Honestly though I can get why people will take issue with the accessibility of Walter's tree as he requires far more knowledge and skill to take advantage of his tree than any before him which is quite the contrast to most characters who just click a button and unlock their powerup.

Fair point, I agree that it may feel bad for some people, but personally I like the way it was handled with these multiple mini-upgrades on all stages of the game, theres a feeling of progress on Walter that I think no other character's kit even comes close to

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, kroban said:

I mean my example for getting thulecite frame was more in like how quickly you could get the materials without having to sweat bullets on a ruins rush, you are still required to go to the station sure but like ,you can get the materials pretty easily even if other people were to rush ruins on the first days (which atleast on the server I play tends to happen quite a lot lol)

Fair point, I agree that it may feel bad for some people, but personally I like the way it was handled with these multiple mini-upgrades on all stages of the game, theres a feeling of progress on Walter that I think no other character's kit even comes close to

Oh I 100% agree my favorite personally is how we get the Possessed slingshot band.