Abi need at least double duration

[Steorra]

In short, please add "player" tag to Abi. And this should be default for Wendy instead of being a skill.

[Peasant]

I kinda doubt if that really works, the 600 hp shield kinda does the same, but it solves nothing

[Yifei_]

Planar Entity Defense (not just planar damage defense) is also needed, like Bernie's. 

[Lee lol]

23 hours ago, YXukun said:

I kinda doubt if that really works, the 600 hp shield kinda does the same, but it solves nothing

I believe there’s a difference, the 600 hp shield is fake and can not be recovered by potions, but player tag will help

[Lee Sy]

但这应该被视为一项纯粹的加强，而不应该被添加到技能树。如果Abigail永远玩家标签，那她从一开始就应该是。

[Evelo]

Abigail

is

not

a

tank

[Yifei_]

4 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Abigail

is

not

a

tank

Abigail has 600 health points, while Bernie has 2600. Anyone who has played as Wendy and Willow knows that Abigail is not meant to be a tank; Bernie is. There's no need for you to point this out.

However, Abigail should not be a glass vase. You only need to play with Abigail against some bosses with AOE attacks or those that easily shift their aggro to realize how fragile she is. The truly effective improvement would be to make Abigail more survivable, rather than having her to tank all the damage.

[HeatAndRun]

Personally I strongly support giving Abigail more survivability. Even with Player tag or Planar entitifization BERNIE! still overwhelm Abigail in terms of tanking. BERNIE! still has more than triple HP than level 3 Abigail and can be repaired so easily. Moreover, Willow can avoid danger thanks to BERNIE! and melt enemies with Lunar Flame, while Wendy heavily relies everything of her gameplay on Abigail. Willow still can do many things without BERNIE! but Wendy feels way weaker without Abigail. As summoner characters the comparison between Wendy and Willow is inevitable. Abigail surely deserves to get a buff to her "Survivability" in my perspective. I also don't want Abigail to become a killing machine with insane DPS pretty much like anyone else. I'll gladly throw any DPS-thing away if I can let her alive while I fight with bosses other than spamming Spectre Cure-All all the time. Everything I want is just more survivability for consistent combat experience!!!

[Yifei_]

13 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Abigail

is

not

a

tank

I hope you understand this point clearly: Willow players want Bernie to take damage for Willow, while Wendy players even want Wendy herself to take damage for Abigail during boss fights.

[Evelo]

15 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

Abigail has 600 health points, while Bernie has 2600. Anyone who has played as Wendy and Willow knows that Abigail is not meant to be a tank; Bernie is. There's no need for you to point this out.

However, Abigail should not be a glass vase. You only need to play with Abigail against some bosses with AOE attacks or those that easily shift their aggro to realize how fragile she is. The truly effective improvement would be to make Abigail more survivable, rather than having her to tank all the damage.

Yknow. This is the best argument I have been given. Thank you I am convinced. Apologies.

[Yifei_]

2 minutes ago, Evelo said:

Yknow. This is the best argument I have been given. Thank you I am convinced. Apologies.

Thank you for your understanding~ hope Wendy's skill tree will have a good outcome!

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Ideally it'd be a baseline addition rather than something that needs to be obtained via the skilltree, right? Like how Walter had his slingshot's attack speed increased by default?

Otherwise, if it truly had to be part of a skill, which one would it be?

I agree that this should be default, let me edit it...

 

[Littlefat1213]

I got what you means but player tag do more things beyond the half damage taken for someone. I'm urging the rework for Distilled Vengeance, I am not satisfied with its current performance which costs a livinglog and only results in additional retaliation. It's more like Unyielding Draught Plus. It could be more useful if can set max damage taken for abi which just similar to the shadow duelist of maxwell, that's definitely the good case in early rework how klei solves survivability for boss fight and it's a reusable feature so i think it's not hard to implement. So in that case, we get a elixir that prevents multiple damages in short terms and another elixir that avoids be taken too many damage in one hit. That would be Prefect in my mind.

[Picklesaurus]

26 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

I hope you understand this point clearly: Willow players want Bernie to take damage for Willow, while Wendy players even want Wendy herself to take damage for Abigail during boss fights.

I don't want to take damage for Abilgail, I want to help her dodge damage with me like we are cooperating with each other. The biggest difference between Bernie and Abigail is that Bernie wants to protect Willow but she has little control over what it attacks and how it moves which combined with his high hp makes him have a "trow away tank" feel during gameplay, Abigail on the other hand is the opposite, she has less hp and you dont want her to die since it punishes your damage but she is also easier to control/communiate with than Bernie, meaning the player should be incentived to cooperate with Abigail and tell her how to better position, when to move, when to attack, when to dodge and not tank for her or make her tank for the player unless its the last option, rather than tanking for Abigail I think its much more fitting for a skill tree that incentive them cooperate with each other so , together, both can try to go as unscathed as possible from danger.

[Yifei_]

12 minutes ago, Picklesaurus said:

I don't want to take damage for Abilgail, I want to help her dodge damage with me like we are cooperating with each other. The biggest difference between Bernie and Abigail is that Bernie wants to protect Willow but she has little control over what it attacks and how it moves which combined with his high hp makes him have a "trow away tank" feel during gameplay, Abigail on the other hand is the opposite, she has less hp and you dont want her to die since it punishes your damage but she is also easier to control/communiate with than Bernie, meaning the player should be incentived to cooperate with Abigail and tell her how to better position, when to move, when to attack, when to dodge and not tank for her or make her tank for the player unless its the last option, rather than tanking for Abigail I think its much more fitting for a skill tree that incentive them cooperate with each other so , together, both can try to go as unscathed as possible from danger.

You've made a valid point. If we could control Abigail in a way that allows her to dodge damage, it would definitely be a better way to enhance her survivability than simply having Wendy take the damage for her. My previous perception of Wendy helping to tank damage was more based on my experience using Wendy in combat with the Bee Queen and Ancient Fuelweaver. Bee Queen's damage is somewhat hard to dodge. The idea of sisterly cooperation rather than just having Wendy take all the damage is indeed a great approach.

[Picklesaurus]

1 hour ago, HeatAndRun said:

Personally I strongly support giving Abigail more survivability. Even with Player tag or Planar entitifization BERNIE! still overwhelm Abigail in terms of tanking. 

I want a swift abigail, not a purely tankier one. Swift Like the ghost of someone who has/had a strong connection with me and hears when I tell her what is best for her (how and where to postion, when to retreat, when to dodge) and us both as a team, not simply a pet that I tell "Hey, you hold up and tank While Im busy dodging" but someone I tell "Okay Abi, we are doing great, now dodge this AOE and move behind the boss so he can't hit both of us at the same time"

[Xplan]

Just now, Picklesaurus said:

我不想为阿比尔盖尔受伤害，我想帮助她和我一起躲避伤害，就像我们彼此合作一样。伯尼和阿比盖尔最大的区别是伯尼想保护 Willow，但她几乎无法控制它的攻击内容和移动方式，再加上他的高 hp 使他在游戏过程中有一种“冲走坦克”的感觉，另一方面，阿比盖尔则相反，她的 hp 较少，你不希望她死，因为它会惩罚你的伤害，但她也更容易控制/交流与伯尼合作，意味着应该激励玩家与阿比盖尔合作，告诉她如何更好地定位，何时移动，何时攻击，何时躲避而不是为她坦克或为玩家制作坦克，除非这是最后的选择，而不是为阿比盖尔坦克我认为它更适合激励他们相互合作的技能树，所以， 两人都可以一起尝试尽可能不受伤害地摆脱危险。

I mean no offense, but have u try the way like you said. It takes much attention to focus on attacking, evading and helping Abi to evade all at the same time. Helping Abi to avoid getting hurt costs not only your attention but also decrease the chances you attack the boss. The new bosses are getting more and more threatening, especially for Wendys who used to ride a beefalo. They are not allowed to make any mistakes. 

[HeatAndRun]

1 hour ago, Littlefat1213 said:

another elixir that avoids be taken too many damage in one hit

This idea sounds great! An interesting alternative for more survivability against bosses other than the player tag or planar entity buff. Motivational for player to gather and manage their resources to achieve survivability because it is not a passive or innate buff for Abigail. Duelists receives maximum 15 damage at once, so it could be something like 50 in Abigail's case.

[Picklesaurus]

1 hour ago, Yifei_ said:

You've made a valid point. If we could control Abigail in a way that allows her to dodge damage, it would definitely be a better way to enhance her survivability than simply having Wendy take the damage for her. 

A good way to do it is to ask for moments/Windows of damage immunity for Abi that the player needs to decide/control when she should use and also that she could use herself from time to time so you had to see whether she is using her own damage imunity moment or you have to tell her she should use it because an attack is coming, like last patch Gestalt Abigail that was immune to damage while she was attacking so I would let her be if she was attacking at the same time as the boss since she wouldnt take damage but I would tell her to dodge If I saw she didn't have enough time to attack the boss before the boss attacked her. Moments of dodging damage/immunity are so fitting for a ghost.

1 hour ago, Xplan said:

I mean no offense, but have u try the way like you said. It takes much attention to focus on attacking, evading and helping Abi to evade all at the same time. Helping Abi to avoid getting hurt costs not only your attention but also decrease the chances you attack the boss. The new bosses are getting more and more threatening, especially for Wendys who used to ride a beefalo. They are not allowed to make any mistakes. 

I agree friend, I was thinking the same, I felt the same while playing with Gestalt Abby last patch, but I think there are ways to do it that don't become too taxing on the player attention and don't make it so you end up getting too open to hits youself while trying to tell Abi what to do. For example:

 

Making it so if abigail dodges an attack with this escape command she also receives a bubble shield for the next attack she receives, so in practice the player uses the dodge command once and Abi is able to dodge two attacks  which is half as taxing on the player than having to tell Abigail to dodge every attack.


----------



Or making the Scare or Haunt command  an Abigail "channel" ability that will make enemies panic once but if there are no enemies too near her she will keep repeating the Scare (buuuh) animation Hexing/Petal debuffing enemies in a large area around her so you could tell her to move somewhere away from the boss than tell her to channel her scare or haunt which will keep the boss hexed/petal debuffed and than you can enjoy your x1,15 damage in bosses that are too deadly to abigail.



There are possibilities, but I can see it being hard for devs to implement this late into the beta.