Abigail isnt supposed to facetank.

[WenericMember]

Something i'm seeing a lot is the sentiment that Wendys tree is bad because it doesnt give a way for Abby to tank bosses, but I feel lile thats a poor prespective that is leading to the trees present dissodance. 

Bernie on willow fills the role of the high hp tank. To make Abigail follow that path is a recipe for one survivor to always outclass the other. So instead, they focused on making Abby mobile. The team spirit skills allow a greater degree of control over Abigail than any other follower in the game, allowing her to perform a dodge roll, and to position her exactly. This fits with Abby being a survivor in spirit too, requiring similar behaviour to keep alive. Thus, any issues with the present Abby isnt about her ability to tank hits, but to evade them.

To this end, the blessed sisturn skills arent supposed to make Abby be able to face tank bosses, they're to give a greater margin of error while kiting, which is why the hp isnt easily recoverable. The new potion also doesn't let Abby get back to max hp instantly, because it would let Abby facetank.

This is also the focus of the alignment Perks, lunar intending to give Abigail heightened survivability, for those who dont like managing abigail, and shadow allowing a greater overall damage for those who are are confident kiting.

Im not trying to say this has come together cohesively, bit i think it may be more constructive to focus feedback on improving control over abigail than to focus on aking her tank more attacks, as that doesnt seem to be the path the devs are trying to take.

 

[Lee lol]

I think it's possible to improve Abiy's flexibility and increase her openness. The problem is that they removed the invincibility frame and gave her a command to stay where she was for a second, which made her clunkier...... At the same time, the teamwork does not feel good when casting spells.
For more information on improving the feel of roulette casting, check out this post of mine:

我认为提高阿比的灵活性与提高她的坦度都是可行的。问题是他们删除了无敌帧，并给了她一个呆在原地一秒的指令，这让她变得更笨重……同时，团队精神的施法手感不好。
关于改善轮盘施法的手感，请看我的这个帖子：

[Steorra]

tbh some of us were not asked for more "tanky" Abi, but we asked for basically survive ability buff, which doesn't hint a result of extremely tanky Abi which like berny.

Also the "shield" is almost meaningless for average skilled players when facing Lunar bearger. And for those more easier bosses I personally think they never should be discussed as they never be a problem.

There's a need for margin of error for those people who trying to learn Abi management. The current "shield" from sisturn is still worthless for a learning process in most situation.

[Tarnishedmax]

34 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Also the "shield" is almost meaningless for average skilled players when facing Lunar bearger. And for those more easier bosses I personally think they never should be discussed as they never be a problem.

Its almost like some hard bosses are supposed to be hard. The fact that Wendy barely even struggles with any other boss except a select few just shows how insanely capable she is, and even when Abigail struggles Wendy with planar equipment has barely any genuine loss in damage because planar damage its not affected by normal damage multipliers, and all the planar weapons have a really low base normal damage in order to favor a TON of planar damage, so you are only taking like a minute longer to kill anything planar as Wendy herself, and no, you are not "Wes" Wendy still has 150hp and 200 sanity with a natural resistance to negative sanity auras. You just do less damage.

[ColdHeaven]

1 hour ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Its almost like some hard bosses are supposed to be hard. The fact that Wendy barely even struggles with any other boss except a select few just shows how insanely capable she is, and even when Abigail struggles Wendy with planar equipment has barely any genuine loss in damage because planar damage its not affected by normal damage multipliers, and all the planar weapons have a really low base normal damage in order to favor a TON of planar damage, so you are only taking like a minute longer to kill anything planar as Wendy herself, and no, you are not "Wes" Wendy still has 150hp and 200 sanity with a natural resistance to negative sanity auras. You just do less damage.

being weaker than wilson at any given moment is a blasphemy for wendy mains.

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

being weaker than wilson at any given moment is a blasphemy for wendy mains.

Maybe you should play other character if you dont enjoy her whole concept since DS strange new powers

[Tarnishedmax]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

So if you do lack of the end game combat experience by using Wendy, could you stop to judge a thing which you know few about it? That would only show your lack of knowledge with full of arrogance.

idk man unlike you i actually try to test stuff in game before i talk about them and with a little bit of planning Wendy can be on par with anyone else, even on whats probably her hardest fight she is doing crazy damage and is able to keep up with everyone. instead of assuming things and just being mean to every single person you interact how about you start to actually be productive. (video by me, while i did commit a lot of mistakes i would rather not record a perfect run for this because i do want to showcase that this isnt some crazy speedrun perfected tech but rather something that anyone can just replicate with a little effort)

[Steorra]

18 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

idk man unlike you i actually try to test stuff in game before i talk about them and with a little bit of planning Wendy can be on par with anyone else, even on whats probably her hardest fight she is doing crazy damage and is able to keep up with everyone. instead of assuming things and just being mean to every single person you interact how about you start to actually be productive. (video by me, while i did commit a lot of mistakes i would rather not record a perfect run for this because i do want to showcase that this isnt some crazy speedrun perfected tech but rather something that anyone can just replicate with a little effort)

Just focus on my assumption then ignore all my questions about your logic, ok.

[RiceMilk]

Better control of Abigail may be a solution that sounds unique enough, but the current control methods provided are cumbersome and the experience is not good.

I think skilled Wendy players don't want Abigail to bear the boss's damage, they just want her to survive. Wendy players want to fight alongside Abigail, but that doesn't mean Wendy players need Abigail to deal a lot of damage or withstand a lot of damage. And fighting together is also a characteristic of Wendy.

 

 

2 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Its almost like some hard bosses are supposed to be hard. The fact that Wendy barely even struggles with any other boss except a select few just shows how insanely capable she is, and even when Abigail struggles Wendy with planar equipment has barely any genuine loss in damage because planar damage its not affected by normal damage multipliers, and all the planar weapons have a really low base normal damage in order to favor a TON of planar damage, so you are only taking like a minute longer to kill anything planar as Wendy herself, and no, you are not "Wes" Wendy still has 150hp and 200 sanity with a natural resistance to negative sanity auras. You just do less damage.

I just replied to the wrong location, so I have edited my reply again.

Famine is a game with good freedom, of course, any character can defeat any boss. Therefore, being able to defeat boss does not mean everything is good.

I believe that the abilities of a combat character should not fail when they are most needed, and Wendy should not perform worse than a character without special combat abilities when facing a lunar buff boss. To be precise, no role should be defined as appearing only in the early/late stages.

If you think Wendy's abilities are too strong when facing low difficulty battles, then you should also modify this matter instead of punishing her skill tree.

Most importantly, fighting alongside Abigail is Wendy's core characteristic. Skilled Wendy players do not need Abigail to be able to withstand a large amount of damage or inflict a large amount of damage. They just hope it can survive.

[RussoDaFederal]

2 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Its almost like some hard bosses are supposed to be hard. The fact that Wendy barely even struggles with any other boss except a select few just shows how insanely capable she is, and even when Abigail struggles Wendy with planar equipment has barely any genuine loss in damage because planar damage its not affected by normal damage multipliers, and all the planar weapons have a really low base normal damage in order to favor a TON of planar damage, so you are only taking like a minute longer to kill anything planar as Wendy herself, and no, you are not "Wes" Wendy still has 150hp and 200 sanity with a natural resistance to negative sanity auras. You just do less damage.

Really? I didn't know Wendy's reduced damage didn't apply to planar stuff. Honestly I think it should, and I'm a Wendy main. I have void gear on the server I'm currently playing and I feel nearly invincible. I don't like some of the changes in the last beta update but I'm in favor of nerfing some stuff about her, ngl. Nerf beefalo damage, nerf planar damage, idc. I agree with the majority of Wendy mains in the forum that gestalt Abi shouldn't have been nerfed to the ground, but honestly Klei should nerf a lot of other stuff. Relying on beefalo like it was a real Wendy trait and not some exploit is silly, I won't change my mind on that.

[No_light]

22 分钟前，Tarnishedmax 说：

我不知道，我不是你，我会先在游戏中测试一下之前讨论一些东西，只需稍加加计划，温迪就可以和其他人相提并论，即使在可能是她最艰难的战斗中，她也能够造成疯狂的伤害，并且能够跟随每个人的动作。不要想当然地对每个人与你互动的人真正都刻薄，你不如开始真正提高效率。（视频是我做的，虽然我确实犯了很多错误，但我宁愿不为了录制完美的运行，因为我想展示这不是一些疯狂的事情）的快速运行完善技术，但是任何人只要加一点努力就可以复制的东西）

 

哦！你的技能确实不错，但是有技能树和没有技能树之间的差距真的这么大吗？我真的需要这样的技能树吗？

如果没有召唤出阿比盖尔，只需要多花一分钟就能杀死装甲熊，这真的能证明温蒂很厉害吗？

我觉得这更像是和韦斯的战斗，而且需要更多的准备

[Tarnishedmax]

31 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Really? I didn't know Wendy's reduced damage didn't apply to planar stuff. Honestly I think it should, and I'm a Wendy main. I have void gear on the server I'm currently playing and I feel nearly invincible. I don't like some of the changes in the last beta update but I'm in favor of nerfing some stuff about her, ngl. Nerf beefalo damage, nerf planar damage, idc. I agree with the majority of Wendy mains in the forum that gestalt Abi shouldn't have been nerfed to the ground, but honestly Klei should nerf a lot of other stuff. Relying on beefalo like it was a real Wendy trait and not some exploit is silly, I won't change my mind on that.

Its not a Wendy specific thing, its just how planar by itself works, at the same time that negative damage multipliers get less relevant with planar equipment, the same happens to POSITIVE damage multipliers, that lose their value with planar equipment

[RussoDaFederal]

Just now, Tarnishedmax said:

Its not a Wendy specific thing, its just how planar by itself works, at the same time that negative damage multipliers get less relevant with planar equipment, the same happens to POSITIVE damage multipliers, that lose their value with planar equipment

I see, thanks for clarifying!

[WenericMember]

5 hours ago, RiceMilk said:

Better control of Abigail may be a solution that sounds unique enough, but the current control methods provided are cumbersome and the experience is not good.

I think skilled Wendy players don't want Abigail to bear the boss's damage, they just want her to survive. Wendy players want to fight alongside Abigail, but that doesn't mean Wendy players need Abigail to deal a lot of damage or withstand a lot of damage. And fighting together is also a characteristic of Wendy.

 

 

I just replied to the wrong location, so I have edited my reply again.

Famine is a game with good freedom, of course, any character can defeat any boss. Therefore, being able to defeat boss does not mean everything is good.

I believe that the abilities of a combat character should not fail when they are most needed, and Wendy should not perform worse than a character without special combat abilities when facing a lunar buff boss. To be precise, no role should be defined as appearing only in the early/late stages.

If you think Wendy's abilities are too strong when facing low difficulty battles, then you should also modify this matter instead of punishing her skill tree.

Most importantly, fighting alongside Abigail is Wendy's core characteristic. Skilled Wendy players do not need Abigail to be able to withstand a large amount of damage or inflict a large amount of damage. They just hope it can survive.

Thats fair enough, its just the most common suggestions of doing so are to give her tankiness close to  Bernie - blessed sisturns max hp & planar entity protection. When combined with Abbys shield and regen, if she got those buffs her ability to tank would be on par with Bernie, not just a margin for error.

I just hope team spirit gets qol/buffs to make it good in combat before the update goes live.

 

[Primalflower]

6 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

idk man unlike you i actually try to test stuff in game before i talk about them and with a little bit of planning Wendy can be on par with anyone else, even on whats probably her hardest fight she is doing crazy damage and is able to keep up with everyone. instead of assuming things and just being mean to every single person you interact how about you start to actually be productive. (video by me, while i did commit a lot of mistakes i would rather not record a perfect run for this because i do want to showcase that this isnt some crazy speedrun perfected tech but rather something that anyone can just replicate with a little effort)

I love this so much. really cool use of abigail even if its sort of simple

[Tarnishedmax]

10 minutes ago, Primalflower said:

I love this so much. really cool use of abigail even if its sort of simple

Thank youuu!!! v(°∇^*)⌒☆

This is exactly why im loving the nwe Wendy, she is the only follower type character that is actually engaging and requires you to play around her weakness in order to maximize damage, for the later bosses you have to get creative if you want to get your potential or you can just bite the bullet and take a couple more seconds to kill something, i do genuinely think some of her skills need work like butterflies costing 4 mourning glories or gestalt abby getting overly nerfed but seeing people STILL complain about her boss fighting potential just makes me think they want her to play the game by herself and not do anything themselves.

 

[WenericMember]

29 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Thank youuu!!! v(°∇^*)⌒☆

This is exactly why im loving the nwe Wendy, she is the only follower type character that is actually engaging and requires you to play around her weakness in order to maximize damage, for the later bosses you have to get creative if you want to get your potential or you can just bite the bullet and take a couple more seconds to kill something, i do genuinely think some of her skills need work like butterflies costing 4 mourning glories or gestalt abby getting overly nerfed but seeing people STILL complain about her boss fighting potential just makes me think they want her to play the game by herself and not do anything themselves.

 

Out of curiosity, as someone whose obviously very capable, how would you say the new team spirit skills are in combat?

[Tarnishedmax]

44 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Out of curiosity, as someone whose obviously very capable, how would you say the new team spirit skills are in combat?

- The attack command is wonderful, you can position abby however you want thanks to this one and it can also be used as a kind of pseudo range attack in case you need it, being able to manually put Abigail behind some bosses allows her to survive a LOT of boss fights. (and even more useful in the caves since you can use the speed elixir instead of nightshade)

- Scare command is really cool for early game and its cooldown is genuinely so insanely short you can stunlock so many things to death if you time it right, its very situational and specially good on the ruins early game but it loses value on boss fights since it just doesn’t work, overall its extremely useful but only for smaller mobs.

- Escape command needs a lot of work because im still struggling to find a situation where using this is better than simply de-summoning abigail, i do have to play around it more but so far its disappointing and it kinda just doesn’t really work. (i do have to test more maybe im missing something)

- Haut command its not for combat but just for utility so like yeah don’t count this one for combat, but the utility it provides is actually REALLY good, i love changing mushrooms to suit my needs!

[WenericMember]

6 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

- The attack command is wonderful, you can position abby however you want thanks to this one and it can also be used as a kind of pseudo range attack in case you need it, being able to manually put Abigail behind some bosses allows her to survive a LOT of boss fights. (and even more useful in the caves since you can use the speed elixir instead of nightshade)

- Scare command is really cool for early game and its cooldown is genuinely so insanely short you can stunlock so many things to death if you time it right, its very situational and specially good on the ruins early game but it loses value on boss fights since it just doesn’t work, overall its extremely useful but only for smaller mobs.

- Escape command needs a lot of work because im still struggling to find a situation where using this is better than simply de-summoning abigail, i do have to play around it more but so far its disappointing and it kinda just doesn’t really work. (i do have to test more maybe im missing something)

- Haut command its not for combat but just for utility so like yeah don’t count this one for combat, but the utility it provides is actually REALLY good, i love changing mushrooms to suit my needs!

Those are pretty much my thoughts. I think the escape command just needs to become easier to trigger than unsummon.

[WenericMember]

1 hour ago, Fitzee said:

I'll be sharing my thoughts in the form of a link, in case people aren't aware already:

Haunt rng is so irritating. The reason it exists on dead players is because they dont have anything else to do.

Wendy does have other things, so rng just makes things frustrating. If its a balancing concern, make the haunt have a longer cooldown with better rng.

[Tarnishedmax]

8 hours ago, No_light said:

 

哦！你的技能确实不错，但是有技能树和没有技能树之间的差距真的这么大吗？我真的需要这样的技能树吗？

如果没有召唤出阿比盖尔，只需要多花一分钟就能杀死装甲熊，这真的能证明温蒂很厉害吗？

我觉得这更像是和韦斯的战斗，而且需要更多的准备

The skill here is actually making a HUGE impact on damage, the Vex damage multiplier adds so much more impact with each hit allowing Wendy to do 100 damage hits on a planar entity! that is genuinely an insane number and normal characters with a lvl3 shadow maul cannot even reach this damage (and you would get even MORE than 100 damage per hit if you used a max level maul instead of scythe) while Abigail herself is hitting for 50 damage per hit thanks to the shadow alignment (regular Abby would not even get to 40 damage), making Wendy do essentially Wolfgang level damage, shaving off an entire minute on a boss fight this intense is genuinely a HUGE advantage over everyone else because the longer this fight goes the worse it gets, now granted you don’t really get to use Abigail skills and commands on this fight but that is because Lunar bearger is incredibly fast paced and with really small margins of error which means i can’t showcase what she is truly capable of o(╥﹏╥)o

I would love to showcase even more fights as her where i actually take advantage of commands but recording them and uploading them take some time sadly and i really just wanted to show how even at her WORST matchup she can still destroy everything, but essentially yes, the skill tree is HEAVILY pulling its weight for this fight.

[mima_]

12 hours ago, Steorra said:

tbh some of us were not asked for more "tanky" Abi, but we asked for basically survive ability buff, which doesn't hint a result of extremely tanky Abi which like berny.

Also the "shield" is almost meaningless for average skilled players when facing Lunar bearger. And for those more easier bosses I personally think they never should be discussed as they never be a problem

no willow player deploy bernie when they fight against mutated bearger. do u see bearger will keep slashing forward to enemy that didnt run away ? even bernie would die at that moment lol. i probably will use bernie as tank if i need to farm embers with spiders to make casting spell easier. i cant think boss fight that bernie can be useful in any way

 " could you stop to judge a thing which you know few about it? That would only show your lack of knowledge with full of arrogance."
sorry could not help but use your own words.

[Lee lol]

1 hour ago, mima_ said:

no willow player deploy bernie when they fight against mutated bearger. do u see bearger will keep slashing forward to enemy that didnt run away ? even bernie would die at that moment lol. i probably will use bernie as tank if i need to farm embers with spiders to make casting spell easier. i cant think boss fight that bernie can be useful in any way

 " could you stop to judge a thing which you know few about it? That would only show your lack of knowledge with full of arrogance."
sorry could not help but use your own words.

I don't think you understand what he said. What he said is that we don't want Abi to become Bernie, but just want her to have more survivability. In contrast to Shadow Abi, because when gestalt's dps and survivability are significantly weaker than Shadow Abi, no one will want to use gestat. Next time you reply to someone, you'd better figure out what he's talking about.

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

- The attack command is wonderful, you can position abby however you want thanks to this one and it can also be used as a kind of pseudo range attack in case you need it, being able to manually put Abigail behind some bosses allows her to survive a LOT of boss fights. (and even more useful in the caves since you can use the speed elixir instead of nightshade)

- Scare command is really cool for early game and its cooldown is genuinely so insanely short you can stunlock so many things to death if you time it right, its very situational and specially good on the ruins early game but it loses value on boss fights since it just doesn’t work, overall its extremely useful but only for smaller mobs.

- Escape command needs a lot of work because im still struggling to find a situation where using this is better than simply de-summoning abigail, i do have to play around it more but so far its disappointing and it kinda just doesn’t really work. (i do have to test more maybe im missing something)

- Haut command its not for combat but just for utility so like yeah don’t count this one for combat, but the utility it provides is actually REALLY good, i love changing mushrooms to suit my needs!

Is this review for KB and Mouse or have you tried it with an Xbox controller? Cause yeah I’m terrified that the new changes will make Wendy way more cumbersome to play with a game controller  

why they moved her commands to a weapon wheel like Willows I will NEVER know.

Willows Abilities are Situational and used sparingly, WENDYS Abilities however are her entire playstyle, and I’m really disliking the idea of trying to navigate a “command wheel” and also still move around and fight at the same time.

Has anyone who has used Beta Wendy with a Xbox controller for more than 30 minutes have any good news to share about how it plays and feels on a controller?

[mima_]

11 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

I don't think you understand what he said. What he said is that we don't want Abi to become Bernie

lol u think i dont get that ? abi and bernie is the same already. they are bad for bosses fight.
they have no survivability in fight .
with gesalt/ shadow abigail she deal lots more damage and can be controlled better than deploying bernie.

she is already way better than bernie in boss fight why compare ? 

all whine about abigail nerf is just player that lazy enough to do boss fight them self want a killing machine so they can afk and watch the fight done