Abigail isnt supposed to facetank.

[Debruh]

16 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Escape command needs a lot of work because im still struggling to find a situation where using this is better than simply de-summoning abigail, i do have to play around it more but so far its disappointing and it kinda just doesn’t really work. (i do have to test more maybe im missing something)

I find it's very good in general use. It's short than unsummoning and summoning her. It won't make you go insane for a small period of time if you are at low sanity. Also, if you use it to get Abby from a group of monkies or smth, and they aggro on to you, she'll be able to pull them off you, whereas if you unsummoned her, she won't be there, and you might die. (Better she dies than you).

It's pretty good for Crystal deerclops, ancient guardian, and more 

Does require a bit of a buff, but pretty good for a 1st skill

[Tarnishedmax]

12 hours ago, Lee lol said:

You're showing how Shadow Abi faces the Moon Bear. You showed skill, freeing Abi after taking down the Moon Bear and giving her maximum output time, keeping her completely safe; In more combat scenarios, you'll have to make sure Abi is present most of the time, and that's when her survival becomes a problem.

And is this supposed to be a bad thing?? how is it a bad thing for a character to be extremely engaging and needing planning/resources to reap some extreme benefits, if Abigail could survive anything she would become a second Maxwell which would make her extremely boring and pointless, what is the point of healing elixirs? what is the point of speed elixirs? what is the point of the instant level 3 elixir? what is the point of all the new Abigail commands? I love how this game actually challenges me and punishes me from messing up by making my damage output lower when i commit a mistake with Abigail, i love having to spend my resources in case i mess up, Wendy is extremely engaging and just severing this extremely fun aspect of her it’s literally just killing her entire character for me. Gestalt Abby being immortal was the most boring thing ive ever played because there was no point in crafting any kind of elixirs, no point in commanding her, no point of taking advantage of damage Windows, having to desummon her and stuff, everything was pointless because the game just played by itself.

 

10 hours ago, No_light said:

Like you said, the generation of mourning glory, potion effects, and grave movement may seem relatively new, but they don't really have much use. Makes me feel terrible.

But what else do you want? Wendy is an extremely complete character that has extremely high rewards in exchange of some risks. The skill tree gave you access to carry all the potions you could ever want, to get all the mourning glory you could ever need, to move the graveyards to make automated farms for anything you want AND get easier access to pipspooks, now you have the ability to revive butterflies which is amazing for decorating/getting more petals, she can use night vision for extremely cheap and have one of the most efficient healing tools in the game and it also fixed the issue of Abigail not being worth it on post rifts. I too would like it if my favorite character could fly, be immortal, swim and never die, but we have to be realistic on what we want, maybe you just don’t really like Wendy and how she plays, because this skill tree despite having issues has made Wendy feel extremely engaging and fun.

[Lee lol]

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

And is this supposed to be a bad thing?? how is it a bad thing for a character to be extremely engaging and needing planning/resources to reap some extreme benefits, if Abigail could survive anything she would become a second Maxwell which would make her extremely boring and pointless, what is the point of healing elixirs? what is the point of speed elixirs? what is the point of the instant level 3 elixir? what is the point of all the new Abigail commands? I love how this game actually challenges me and punishes me from messing up by making my damage output lower when i commit a mistake with Abigail, i love having to spend my resources in case i mess up, Wendy is extremely engaging and just severing this extremely fun aspect of her it’s literally just killing her entire character for me. Gestalt Abby being immortal was the most boring thing ive ever played because there was no point in crafting any kind of elixirs, no point in commanding her, no point of taking advantage of damage Windows, having to desummon her and stuff, everything was pointless because the game just played by itself.

 

But what else do you want? Wendy is an extremely complete character that has extremely high rewards in exchange of some risks. The skill tree gave you access to carry all the potions you could ever want, to get all the mourning glory you could ever need, to move the graveyards to make automated farms for anything you want AND get easier access to pipspooks, now you have the ability to revive butterflies which is amazing for decorating/getting more petals, she can use night vision for extremely cheap and have one of the most efficient healing tools in the game and it also fixed the issue of Abigail not being worth it on post rifts. I too would like it if my favorite character could fly, be immortal, swim and never die, but we have to be realistic on what we want, maybe you just don’t really like Wendy and how she plays, because this skill tree despite having issues has made Wendy feel extremely engaging and fun.

Oh, you misunderstood me, I'm talking about Gestalt Abi's survivability (or attack power) should be boosted, otherwise it's too weak for Shadow Abi. (Considering Shadow Abi's crazy dps and Gestalt's demanding conversion conditions) I have no problem with Shadow Abi's survivability. I couldn't agree that Wendy shouldn't be a character without weaknesses - like Wolfgang, trying to keep Abi alive is the charm of this character.

[Koomin]

15 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

Oh, you misunderstood me, I'm talking about Gestalt Abi's survivability (or attack power) should be boosted, otherwise it's too weak for Shadow Abi. (Considering Shadow Abi's crazy dps and Gestalt's demanding conversion conditions) I have no problem with Shadow Abi's survivability. I couldn't agree that Wendy shouldn't be a character without weaknesses - like Wolfgang, trying to keep Abi alive is the charm of this character.

Shadow Abigail should be the one that is getting adjusted weaker so that Gestalt Abigail is not too weak for it, which would solve your concern.  Just because something is too strong doesn't mean the other options need to be made too strong as well.  That just makes the problem worse. "Crazy dps" on a follower with 100% uptime that provides top tier aoe damage, team damage buffs, and miscelaneous other bonuses like light is not warranted. 

[arubaro]

13 hours ago, No_light said:

Regarding Abigail's ability to get 600 shield points during breaks, he needs Wendy to stay in the urn for 5 minutes, is it really worth it, and the boss only needs three or four hits to eliminate the 600 shields, is it really worth the time?
I knew that the potion would allow Abigail to go straight from level 1 to level 3, but the feeling this potion gave me was going to make me doubly troublesome. I hate this feeling, and when using these items, it is easy to be attacked by bosses. It would make me more susceptible to death.

The time to get the shield can be reduced if klei is able to read useful feedback between such ammount of trash topics

About using items in the middle of a fight... simply git gud. That makes the fight complex and rewarding...something important in a game with a combat system based on accumulating resources until you can hold F safely...

[Lee lol]

7 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Shadow Abigail should be the one that is getting adjusted weaker so that Gestalt Abigail is not too weak for it, which would solve your concern.  Just because something is too strong doesn't mean the other options need to be made too strong as well.  That just makes the problem worse. "Crazy dps" on a follower with 100% uptime that provides top tier aoe damage, team damage buffs, and miscelaneous other bonuses like light is not warranted. 

I'm not sure...... Maybe it's right to weaken the Shadows, (while enhancing the ability after the Breach), but don't you think Gestalt is too weak as a final skill right now, or that the combat core skills in Wendy's skill tree are too weak?

2 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

I'm not sure...... Maybe it's right to weaken the Shadows, (while enhancing the ability after the Breach), but don't you think Gestalt is too weak as a final skill right now, or that the combat core skills in Wendy's skill tree are too weak?

After a recent hotfix I tried fighting the Rift creature with Gestalt on the test server and felt like she was getting sluggish (one second of stagnation after attacking, going into hidden mode after 25% HP) Can I say that this cut her output by 25%? I don't know if I'm right about my feelings, but I'd rather use a regular Abi in battle.

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, Lee lol said:

I'm not sure...... Maybe it's right to weaken the Shadows, (while enhancing the ability after the Breach), but don't you think Gestalt is too weak as a final skill right now, or that the combat core skills in Wendy's skill tree are too weak?

She seems pretty strong, but I would be happy with some small adjustments like changing some of Shadow Abigail's damage and the vex damage she gives to become planar damage for help after the rifts like you mentioned (assuming her damage before rifts is reduced).

I think Gestalt is very well designed actually.  A lot of people missed the vex debuff duration fix in the last patch release, where the vex duration was too short.  It does initially seem like Gestalt Abigail's damage was reduced in the last patch when you see her hit damage was halved, but the vex fix makes it so that Wendy and Abigail attacking together actually does the same damage as pre-patch (and Wendy and Abigail attacking together and being a team is the whole point of the character).  Most people were advocating for either the damage or survivability to get reduced, and they actually really did only reduce the survivability.  As-is she is a great choice for boss fighting, and is a welcome improvement to Wendy's combat abilities.

[Tarnishedmax]

52 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

Oh, you misunderstood me, I'm talking about Gestalt Abi's survivability (or attack power) should be boosted, otherwise it's too weak for Shadow Abi. (Considering Shadow Abi's crazy dps and Gestalt's demanding conversion conditions) I have no problem with Shadow Abi's survivability. I couldn't agree that Wendy shouldn't be a character without weaknesses - like Wolfgang, trying to keep Abi alive is the charm of this character.

Oh then i agree with you, the only issue this tree is facing and probably its biggest is gestalt abby being overly nerfed, i do think she should keep her current survivability but keep her old damage, the invulnerability was TOO much imo…

I don’t really agree with gestalt abby being expensive though, getting the item to convert her is extremely cheap and you can get her really early, its like 8 moonrock, a blue gem and some rocks total to do the thing and then just wait for a full moon, you don’t even need to mantain her gestalt form.

[Koomin]

5 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

I'm open to making Shadow Abigail attack faster rather than having her hit substantially harder, but I'm not too keen on having her DPS overall nerfed too much; after all, that's the point of her, to be the opposite of Gestalt Abigail by having low survivability and high maintenance for more damage. Besides, I'm sure a good portion of the insane damage has to also do with Cursed Vexation, increasing the vex damage by a substantial amount, as well as beefalos outright removing Wendy's downside. 

I'd also be open to nerf Shadow Abigail in a different way, such as reducing her survivability further by removing her shield, but that's only a drastic measure that I truly don't think it's neccessary. 

I already made a suggestion to the Sisterhood skills here:

 

Removing her shield or something like that is a cool suggestion.  Right now Gestalt Abigail is specialized for boss fights but not mobs which is a fun design, but Shadow Abigail is just normal Abigail with Wolfgang damage and no reduction in other capabilities.  Giving her a tradeoff for her power is a good idea (like how Gestalt Abigail trades area of effect damage for her survivability).  Making her really easy to kill in exchange for the damage makes sense (or just adjusting the damage to be specialized for after rifts like I mentioned above).

I agree that the beefalo thing is a big root of the problem.  It's clearly a bug but Klei is in a difficult position with it so there's not much to be done.

[Lee lol]

26 minutes ago, Koomin said:

She seems pretty strong, but I would be happy with some small adjustments like changing some of Shadow Abigail's damage and the vex damage she gives to become planar damage for help after the rifts like you mentioned (assuming her damage before rifts is reduced).

I think Gestalt is very well designed actually.  A lot of people missed the vex debuff duration fix in the last patch release, where the vex duration was too short.  It does initially seem like Gestalt Abigail's damage was reduced in the last patch when you see her hit damage was halved, but the vex fix makes it so that Wendy and Abigail attacking together actually does the same damage as pre-patch (and Wendy and Abigail attacking together and being a team is the whole point of the character).  Most people were advocating for either the damage or survivability to get reduced, and they actually really did only reduce the survivability.  As-is she is a great choice for boss fighting, and is a welcome improvement to Wendy's combat abilities.

Well, maybe we need more combat to test this. I'd love to use Gestalt to challenge each boss in the beta, but my time doesn't allow it. So I only tested the Moon Bear and Moon Deer, as well as the Rift creatures underground. I'd say Gestalt behaved badly against Moon Bear and Deer, and wasn't as agile as before (maybe because I wasn't inexperienced, or wasn't used to attacking with Gestalt, but at least I've managed to kill Moon Bear a few times with other characters) and I'll continue to try a few more times after that.

[Debruh]

6 hours ago, Lee lol said:

Well, maybe we need more combat to test this. I'd love to use Gestalt to challenge each boss in the beta, but my time doesn't allow it. So I only tested the Moon Bear and Moon Deer, as well as the Rift creatures underground. I'd say Gestalt behaved badly against Moon Bear and Deer, and wasn't as agile as before (maybe because I wasn't inexperienced, or wasn't used to attacking with Gestalt, but at least I've managed to kill Moon Bear a few times with other characters) and I'll continue to try a few more times after that

For Crystal deerclops, I really recommend the gloomerang. Cause it keeps his aggression on you, while Abby can attack him melee. It seemed to work fine with gestalt Abby (Gabby) but I'll have to test it again with the new patches

[Lee lol]

4 minutes ago, Debruh said:

对于 Crystal deerclops，我真的推荐 gloomerang。因为它会让他的仇恨对你保持，而 Abby 可以近战攻击他。它似乎可以在格式塔 Abby （Gabby） 中找到，但我必须用新的补丁再次测试它

thank you, i will try next time