Walter skill tree overhaul and ideas

[Tarnishedmax]

As we all already know the Walter skill tree leaves a LOT to be desired so i decided to do a little brainstorming and came up with a decently realistic skill tree overhaul that doesnt go too far from the game itself and the original intent of this skill tree

Lets start with the rounds skills bloating, every ammo should be condensed into small packets, the effects of the round themselves are pretty good but they are NOT worth entire skill points dedicated to each one and should make some space for personal Walter perks that i will talk about later on this post, i think all of the new rounds should be put across 3 skill points and it should go like this (excuse my lack of creative names)

- Crowd control: This skill should cointain stinger rounds, glass rounds and honey rounds as all of those are mostly useful in area denial scenarios, i wouldnt change how each of these rounds function because utility wise they are perfectly good on their own when condensed into this one skill

- Demolitionist: These rounds are all about pure raw damage and nothing else, this skill includes the gunpowder rounds, shock rounds and dreadstone rounds, now the problem with all of these rounds are that they are just not really worth their price and all get outclassed by thulecite rounds anyways, so my ideas to fix each one is as follows. Gunpowder rounds should get their 68 damage back while also keeping the small chance to explode and do double damage in an aoe, this sounds extremely powerful on paper but considering how costly these are (1 gunpowder, 1 grass and 1 flint) it means you have to go out of your way to make them which i think is enough justification for their power, dreadstone rounds should hit like a truck, possibly even bouncing or hitting an enemy twice thanks to the regenerating properties of dreadston but have a sanity cost per round shot, something like 5 or 2 sanity per shot, this would make them really fun and its a good way to just spend the sanity you werent even gonna lose on the first place, you cant abuse these unless you want to be insane and fighting shadow creatures and finally for the shock rounds they should be kept as is but there should be a water balloon round that can make enemies wet for a short period of time, making it a synergy with the shock rounds and also just being a really good support tool for other characters that could benefit from wet enemies (something like the morning star, voltgoat jelly or Wigfrid spear) all of these rounds would finally be extremely powerful and genuinely justify how costly they are.

- Gem master: this one is simpler, just adds two new gem themed rounds, orange and red gems, orange gems will make enemies that get hit by it go into a frenzy and start attacking any other mob that is close to it, this plays into orange gems being used for "lazy" stuff and it means you are just being lazy and will let enemies kill each other for you, just for balance sake i would make this frenzy include players as well, so they wouldnt be as useful on mobs that work alone and it also wouldnt be a glorified stun, the second one is the red gem rounds which are purely a support ammo, these would do a small healing aoe upon impact while doing minimal damage (spear damage) this would mainly be used to support your friends that are fighting on melee range while also not completely missing out on ALL your dps, finally i was thinking of some effects for the yellow and green gems but decided against it because those 2 gems are usually the most valuable ones and are used through the entire game and i dont want Walter just eating these resources for no real reason.

Now that his projectile skills are neatly organized the projectile pro skill requirements should be lowered to 3 projectile related skills intead of 4 (including the alignments) and projectile pro 1 should give the extra 10 ammo per craft and projectile pro 2 should give Walter a little craftable marble bag so he can carry around all his projectiles and be more organized.

Since there is less skills in total this is the perfect time to add personal Walter perks! these should not be game breaking but rather just neat little boosts to your general survival capabilities, nothing crazy, as of now i have thought about 4 different boyscout perks.

- First aid: increases the healing efficiency of healing items by 10, basically just makes glands, bloodsacks, salves and honey paltouces more effective for Walter, this skill is really simple but i think this would give him a crap ton of survivability outside the comfort of crockpot foods, it fits into him loving to be out in the wilderness and refusing to go home and thanks to his lower health pool its just extremely efficient for him, also something like this would be HUGE for new/novice players.

- Outdoorsman: another simple one, it doubles the efficiency of sleeping, this kinda just makes sense to have as a boyscout, this also greatly benefits his already useful portable tent, good for new players and also just a nice thing to have.

- Forager: doubles the amount of basic resources you get from different foraging sources, such as twigs, grass, berry bushes, mushrooms, cacti, reeds and spiny bushes, now i dont really know if this would be busted since its just basic resources and not stuff like trees or rocks but i like it as an idea so im keeping it here.

- Hunter: At the end of a hunt (the patches of dirt that spawn koalefants, vargs and ewecus) Walter can analyze the body to start a second shorter hunt, making it easier to farm hunts and things like ewecus or vargs or just a ton of meat.

Now i know these might be a bit too basic but i dont think Walter needs some insane personal perks to work, small stuff that goes a long way its what i prefer, considering the rounds and slingshot is were the real juice is, and since i mentioned the slingshot its time to talk about it.

Currently the slingshot itself (and its perks) are in a really good spot and just need small tweaks, the most important changes i think are needed is either removing the sticky grip completely or adding it to the basic slingshot parts and replace that for a more interesting mid game handle, my idea for this mid game handle would be a royal jelly handle, which alongside slighty improving fire rate above the silk handle it would have a special effect that consists on ramping up your shoot speed as long as you stand completely still like a turret, this might sound boring but think that you move a LOT in this game so this would make positioning key and be a high risk high reward move to have since you need to commit to this ramping up effect and possibly be punished for it, while also offering a basic upgrade over the silk handle, it being royal jelly means you force Walter to fight what is possibly his ONLY true fear... allergies, and also fills the massive gap there is between silk and dark tatters as upgrades.

For the frames i think thulecite frame is perfect as is but scrappy needs some extra work, for the scrappy frame i would add extra shooting modes so it becomes a jack of all trades frame, changing the modes should be done on the frame itself outside the slingshot just to prevent the player from hotswapping the modes on the fly, these modes would be as follows:

- Cannon mode: The one we currently have but buffed to do 2.5 damage instead of 2x so its actually more usable than just pressing F.

- Sniper mode: makes the charge attack shoot a high velocity round that doesnt do any extra damage or effects but pierce through enemies, the power of the different rounds would decrease the more enemies it hits to prevent it from just doing infinite damage to a million mobs.

- Shotgun mode: You shoot 3 rounds at the same time in a cone pattern, im not really sure how useful this would actually be but shotguns are always fun to have, i think it being wasteful and kinda unwieldy balances this out.

and for the final idea i think there should be a new frame that let you aim and shoot while moving just like Willow with her lunar flames (this idea is from Woxd who also made a little animatic for how it would look! check them out if you can.)

To finally finish off lets talk about Woby, i think the current iteration of her perks are just trying to make her a worse beefalo for like thrice the amount of effort, what i want is for her to be her own unique thing, for this we are gonna replace and buff all her current skills except for dig.

- Speed: i think the amount of time she takes to max out is fine but the final result should be incredible, having her at lower training % would make her minimal speed be as fast as a regular saddled beefalo and slowly increase her max speed as the badge progresses until finally making her move even FASTER than a glossamer rider, this wouldnt really be as busted as it sounds because you do still have to keep her fed and her minimal speed will always return to that of a regular beefalo, this would make her extremely unique because she would be one of the fastest things in the game!

- Replace the bravery badge for a sanity gain when riding Woby: this one is boring but effective, the amount of passive sanity she gives to Walter increases as the badge progresses until becoming potentially better than a tam o shanter (maybe something like Maxwell level sanity regen) Walter doesnt really struggle with sanity however he severely lacks ways of passively gaining it back and when you finally lose sanity you tend to be stuck in an awkard number unless you want to stand under trees or sleep or eat sanity food, this would simply help to keep your sanity topped off after unfortunate encounters or fights.

- Replace the perk that makes you take less sanity damage for big hunts: When big Woby is active she will sniff the ground and dig up a hunting spot for you to start a hunt, it would work the same way as dig and just start her out by digging for a hunt every 3 dies and then doing it every day after maxing it out, im not sure how useful this would be but this has a synergy with the before mentioned hunter skill and also gives Woby something to do when she is in big mode but not being used for transport, these hunts would obviously be optional and should be able to be dismissed in case Woby digs out a track in an incovenient spot

- Dig: this perk should stay as it, who doesnt love a bit of rng and gambling?

- Fetch: instead of having Woby automatically pick up items you were trying to pick i think Woby should be able to be commanded to pick up any item you want, including stuff like grass tufts, berry bushes, twigs etc. Woby should have a cooldown for this and need some rest before she can be commanded again until you max out the skill which would make her never get tired and be able to be used forever.

I know this is a lengthy post but i appreciate you for reading this entire thing, i REALLY care about this character and it genuinely makes me really sad to see all this wasted potential which is the main reason why i just wanted to throw all of my ideas and thoughts on here, if you have more ideas, opinions or things to add dont doubt saying them because i think Klei and specially Walter need all the feedback in the world, thanks for reading!!!!! ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡

[flamboyant wolf]

12 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

 

- First aid: increases the healing efficiency of healing items by 10, basically just makes glands, bloodsacks, salves and honey paltouces more effective for Walter, this skill is really simple but i think this would give him a crap ton of survivability outside the comfort of crockpot foods, it fits into him loving to be out in the wilderness and refusing to go home and thanks to his lower health pool its just extremely efficient for him, also something like this would be HUGE for new/novice players.

 

Maybe the skill could also make the animation for using healing items quicker? The healing increase could also be percentage based, like 50% more for example(so a bit weaker increase on glands and blood sacks, same effect on healing salve, a slightly stronger increased on honey poultice. I just think a flat increase benefits weaker healing items more than stronger ones, which might make crafting better healing items undesirable). Overall a nice skill idea.

18 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

 

- Speed: i think the amount of time she takes to max out is fine but the final result should be incredible, having her at lower training % would make her minimal speed be as fast as a regular saddled beefalo and slowly increase her max speed as the badge progresses until finally making her move even FASTER than a glossamer rider, this wouldnt really be as busted as it sounds because you do still have to keep her fed and her minimal speed will always return to that of a regular beefalo, this would make her extremely unique because she would be one of the fastest things in the game!

From my testing, and some code reading, this seems to be sorta kinda how it works already?

So, some basic speed numbers(default player speed is 6):

- Default beefalo with basic saddle:

7×1.4 = 9.8

- Rider beefalo with glossamer saddle:

8×1.55 = 12.4

- Woby

8/9/10(depending on hunger)

- Woby with both agility badges maxed out:

11/12/13(depending on hunger)

From what I understood from the code, Agility lvl 1 badge gives the maximum of 1 point of speed and Agility lvl 2 gives another 2. So the maximum speed of a well fed Woby with both skills maxed out and active is 13, which IS more than glossamer+rider! In my ingame testing that was indeed the case, as Woby was able to outrun the rider with glossamer.

Now the issue is that to keep Woby at her maximum speed, you need to keep her hunger above 35 hunger(or 34? not sure), and she looses 20 hunger points per day, having the maximum of 20 hunger. This means that IN PRACTICE, you will be at 12 speed at least some of the time, so on average it kinda comes down to the same speed as glossamer rider ig. There's also the time spent getting the meat every few days. But that all can be solved with tweaks to her hunger mechanics.

[viblym]

Catuna and I a while ago ruminated on the idea of Woby acting similarly to a St. Brenard rescue dog, and being able to provide items and healing to other survivors when in need- more specifically, being able to bring a telltale heart or revival item to a ghost player if commanded. Angela (another member of the community) also suggested in conjunction with that, that Woby with her storage could be used to transport other pick-me-up items for the survivors, like lanterns, thermal stones, healing, etc. So I figure why not expand that into just being able to use Woby for deliveries as a whole? Not instantly, depending on distance (it has to be in the same shard of course) Woby has a short timer for delivering objects, note that the timer should still be fast enough to be considered viable over most other on foot transportation methods. Maybe even having her in big form will increase the speed at which she makes the trip? Once she arrives at the designated Location or Player (Being able to select a specific player to deliver items to would be nice, but selecting a spot using the map could work too.) Woby will make her way to that location and stay there until either a timer runs out, or you call her back. Ideally calling her back using something like a dog whistle would be good, to prevent premature departures and cancelling deliveries.

[Tarnishedmax]

7 minutes ago, flamboyant wolf said:

Maybe the skill could also make the animation for using healing items quicker? The healing increase could also be percentage based, like 50% more for example(so a bit weaker increase on glands and blood sacks, same effect on healing salve, a slightly stronger increased on honey poultice. I just think a flat increase benefits weaker healing items more than stronger ones, which might make crafting better healing items undesirable). Overall a nice skill idea.

Omg this is a miles better way to do it, i just said the flat 10hp bonus cause i did not think about a better way to do it! but yea a % increase is deffo the way to go.

7 minutes ago, flamboyant wolf said:

From what I understood from the code, Agility lvl 1 badge gives the maximum of 1 point of speed and Agility lvl 2 gives another 2. So the maximum speed of a well fed Woby with both skills maxed out and active is 13, which IS more than glossamer+rider! In my ingame testing that was indeed the case, as Woby was able to outrun the rider with glossamer.

Oh that is interesting, i dont really do math tests but rather just play lenghty worlds and see how things impact on the context of the game itself, i suppose the Woby hunger is a bigger issue than her not being fast enough.

5 minutes ago, viblym said:

Catuna and I a while ago ruminated on the idea of Woby acting similarly to a St. Brenard rescue dog, and being able to provide items and healing to other survivors when in need- more specifically, being able to bring a telltale heart or revival item to a ghost player if commanded. Angela (another member of the community) also suggested in conjunction with that, that Woby with her storage could be used to transport other pick-me-up items for the survivors, like lanterns, thermal stones, healing, etc. So I figure why not expand that into just being able to use Woby for deliveries as a whole? Not instantly, depending on distance (it has to be in the same shard of course) Woby has a short timer for delivering objects, note that the timer should still be fast enough to be considered viable over most other on foot transportation methods. Maybe even having her in big form will increase the speed at which she makes the trip? Once she arrives at the designated Location or Player (Being able to select a specific player to deliver items to would be nice, but selecting a spot using the map could work too.) Woby will make her way to that location and stay there until either a timer runs out, or you call her back. Ideally calling her back using something like a dog whistle would be good, to prevent premature departures and cancelling deliveries.

I LOVE THIS!!! it gives small Woby a massive utility both solo and online, and its also just really cute to just have Walter working as a delivery boy •ᴗ•

[flamboyant wolf]

5 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Oh that is interesting, i dont really do math tests but rather just play lenghty world and see how thing impact in the context of the game itself, i suppose the Woby hunger is a bigger issue than her not being fast enough.

Agility feels pretty nice, from my experience, it did take me till around day 30 to max it out, which is a little later than I normally finish taming the beef, but I feel like that's not really such an issue, assuming the cost of upkeep gets a bit less taxing.

What surprised me was that in the same time, I got about 70-75% of bravery training done, from having 1 badge equipped on the leftover point(it also seems like the badge progress is linked between levels, whether this is intended or not I'm not sure, but I had the same progress on the lvl 2 of bravery badge, despite never using it), I thought it would take longer tbh? idk this is kinda irrelevant, just wanted to share I guess. 

[Creatorofswamps]

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡

I like many of the points from your post, especially regarding projectiles in individual groups and Walter's own mini-skills,

2 hours ago, viblym said:

Catuna and I a while ago ruminated on the idea of Woby acting similarly to a St. Brenard rescue dog, and being able to provide items and healing to other survivors when in need- more specifically, being able to bring a telltale heart or revival item to a ghost player if commanded. Angela (another member of the community) also suggested in conjunction with that, that Woby with her storage could be used to transport other pick-me-up items for the survivors, like lanterns, thermal stones, healing, etc. So I figure why not expand that into just being able to use Woby for deliveries as a whole? Not instantly, depending on distance (it has to be in the same shard of course) Woby has a short timer for delivering objects, note that the timer should still be fast enough to be considered viable over most other on foot transportation methods. Maybe even having her in big form will increase the speed at which she makes the trip? Once she arrives at the designated Location or Player (Being able to select a specific player to deliver items to would be nice, but selecting a spot using the map could work too.) Woby will make her way to that location and stay there until either a timer runs out, or you call her back. Ideally calling her back using something like a dog whistle would be good, to prevent premature departures and cancelling deliveries.

I also like the idea of wobi deliverer, it can give a second life to the compass, that's what I mean: you and your friend on the other side of the world, Taking the compass, Walter opens the map and clicks on the icon a friend. Thereafter,Wobby is going to your friend. After the character picks up the items delivered to him, he will be able to pet Wobby, and this will be a sign that she is returning to Walter.

[_mylilsunshine_]

2 hours ago, viblym said:

Catuna and I a while ago ruminated on the idea of Woby acting similarly to a St. Brenard rescue dog, and being able to provide items and healing to other survivors when in need- more specifically, being able to bring a telltale heart or revival item to a ghost player if commanded. Angela (another member of the community) also suggested in conjunction with that, that Woby with her storage could be used to transport other pick-me-up items for the survivors, like lanterns, thermal stones, healing, etc.

I would kill for a medic dog. Literally. Valiant Heart, anyone?

Please look into this if you guys have the opportunity @V2C

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Tarnishedmax said:

Dig: this perk should stay as it, who doesnt love a bit of rng and gambling?

Me  but that aside I like the ideas though I feel like dig and fetch should be combined and given the ability for Woby to dig things like graves and saplings up on command with big Woby being given the additional ability to dig up stumps.

[Horsheen]

10 hours ago, viblym said:

Woby with her storage could be used to transport other pick-me-up items for the survivors, like lanterns, thermal stones, healing, etc. So I figure why not expand that into just being able to use Woby for deliveries as a whole? 

I would kill for this, this is the best thing ever and I NEED it

[IAmAFurrz]

last thing klei will do is change walter's skill tree