Gestalt Abigail solos Toadstool, Armored Bearger, Dragonfly and much more!

[Wormboi]

6 hours ago, WereBruhver said:

The shadow side of Wendy's affinities is also extremely strong, including Shadow Abby, especialy later in the game, your beefalo can hit for up to 137 damage per attack with the new Hex Potion and Shadow Abigail damage can go up to 94 AOE damage per attack when you muder a critter in your inventory, it brings Wendy DPS to Wolfgang levels of damage. 

 

Ameslarii doesnt like people using his videos to prove something op

[Lee Sy]

I have tried to let gestalt Abigail solo boss and found it not easy.

You have to be familiar with the attack flow of boss, as well as Abi's. It's hard to use escape skill at proper time, and wrong moment will pause Abigail's attack, which might make Abi undertake more damage that could be escaped by herself with invincible frame triggered by attacking. I mean, it's a totally different way to fight, i need more practice to adapt it.

When Abi dead, Wendy is just Wes, but more pretty. I know it's convenient to get Abi back and recover her health limitation to 600. But at some price, more or less.

For me, ignore the team spirit skill might be a better way. Just focus on Wendy, leave Abi's AI to think when to attack and when to escape.

我试着让月灵阿比盖尔单挑BOSS，我发现这并不简单。

你必须特别熟悉BOSS和月灵阿比二者的攻击模式，很难在适当的时机使用躲避技能帮阿比规避伤害。错误的时机会打断阿比的攻击节奏，甚至可能让她吃到更多伤害，而这本可以被她自己冲锋时的无敌躲掉。这是完全不同的战斗方式，我应该需要更多练习去适应。

一旦姐姐死亡，温蒂就是漂亮点的韦斯。我知道现在可以很轻易的复活姐姐，并把她的血上限恢复到600，但总归是有代价的，或多或少。

对于我来说，不管team spirit里的控制技能，专注于温蒂的攻击和走位可能更容易，让月灵的ai决定啥时候攻击啥时候躲避就好了。

[kroban]

8 hours ago, Tranoze said:

Realisticly, would you kill moose + kill some goats for weather pain materials then fight toads for 4 mins,
Or you just fight toad for 8 mins?

Realistically, this Gestal Abigail can now solo goosemoose + baby ducks + goats, so I dont see using weather pain as something hard to get for Wendy, you can get those things for free! 

[TabbyTheNeko]

i actually don't have an issue with this. with how long these kills take it just seems like a thing that you can do, but most people aren't going to.

2 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

The biggest issue is how this virtually costs nothing. It kinda breaks some fundamental rules of dst about prep work before tackling stronger fights. Darkswords need materials, armor needs materials, healing needs materials. 

There needs to be a cost somewhere... 

the cost is that you kill celestial champion as wendy

and that it takes forever for abi to solo

[Dingle]

6 minutes ago, TabbyTheNeko said:

i actually don't have an issue with this. with how long these kills take it just seems like a thing that you can do, but most people aren't going to.

the cost is that you kill celestial champion as wendy

and that it takes forever for abi to solo

Is that even true? I thought you just needed to kill Celestial Champion once, as any character, to unlock it forever.

The actual thing you need to craft after that is just a moon dial.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[WenericMember]

2 hours ago, Evelo said:

Right out of the gate, the video is showing animation canceling which most people do not do, others literally cannot do. Second, as stated by Fitzee. Beefalo negates Wendy's only downside which is lower damage. Finally, murder actions, while they stack, require preparation work as stated by Howlvoid. Compared to Gestalt which you have significantly less barrier to entry and can clear more bosses for less effort. Finally, AFW is Wendy's strongest boss fight pre-skilltree because of how well abigail deals with the woven shadows.

Oh final finally, this is done by someone who has clear knowledge of the game and boss fight mechanics, compared to someone who literally does not have to participate at all is able to kill a wide variety of bosses. You are comparing an apple to an orange. Yes, it is powerful. But it is much different in terms of prep and player input.

Yeah, Shadow Abi's in a cool spot because unlike Wolfgang of Lunar Abby, to get the truly insane DPS you have to use every mechanic available to you in tandem - keeping Abby alive, Fully taming a beef, having Potions, gathering & sacrificing enemies, all while still fully engaging in the boss's mechanics..

Maybe others will disagree, but that's how skill trees should be for characters that don't need semi-reworks (although yes that should possibly not be in the tree), increased potential for characters that requires you to fully maximize their potential to benefit from.

[ZeRoboButler]

Meh... just make it so abby loses dmg if she is fighting alone or has no interaction from wendy, the same idea was put in mind for maxwell where if he isn't in the fight or close enough, the minions start doing less damage and attacking slower. 

Just reward the player for engaging with the fight rather than standing back and eating popcorn while abby handles all the work. At the moment the only action being rewarded is making a moon dial before day 11, sisters gotta stay together, they really should work together too. 

thematic balancing, I say.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, ZeRoboButler said:

Meh... just make it so abby loses dmg if she is fighting alone or has no interaction from wendy, the same idea was put in mind for maxwell where if he isn't in the fight or close enough, the minions start doing less damage and attacking slower. 

Just reward the player for engaging with the fight rather than standing back and eating popcorn while abby handles all the work. At the moment the only action being rewarded is making a moon dial before day 11, sisters gotta stay together, they really should work together too. 

thematic balancing, I say.

Yeah. The entire point of Wendy being able to do single target damage comparable to other combat characters is the idea that Together, Wendy and Abigail can surpass anything.*

Gesalt Abigail is meant to be an alternative to Shadow Abigail. While Shadow Abigail gives minimal defensive benefit, in exchanged for higher overall combat potential, Gesalt is meant to be the defensive mode. The idea of Gesalt Abby is good, there just needs to be a method of encouraging fighting in Tandem. Shadow Abby has the Boosted Hex, further encouraging fighting together, but Lunar Abby has no such thing.

(*the game throws at them)

[Koomin]

Shadow/gestalt Abigail should require pure horror/pure brilliance for the transform like most of the other characters including Walter/Wortox that have to wait until post-rift for their abilities.  If Klei is trying to buff Abigail for post-rift bosses and raidbosses but not early game (which they said was the case), this stuff should be post-rift.

[WenericMember]

13 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Shadow/gestalt Abigail should require pure horror/pure brilliance for the transform like most of the other characters including Walter/Wortox that have to wait until post-rift for their abilities.  If Klei is trying to buff Abigail for post-rift bosses and raidbosses but not early game (which they said was the case), this stuff should be post-rift.

It's honestly kinda 50/50 whether they have to wait pre or post rifts for their alignment Perks

• Willow Does Not (Lunar Flame & Shadow Bernie don't need special materials)
• Winona Does Not (She doesn't even technically align, so idk)
• Wigfrid Does (PH/PB crafting req)
• Wurt Does (PH/PB crafting req)
• Wormwood Does Not (?) (His combat alignment perks do, his non-combat don't)
• Wolfgang Does Not (It matters who he's fighting, not what he's using)
• Woodie Does Not (Passive Benefit)
• Wortox Does (Tied to crafting req)
• Walter Does (PH/PB crafting req)
• Wendy Does Not

Presently its 4-4, with two edge cases.

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

It's honestly kinda 50/50 whether they have to wait pre or post rifts for their alignment Perks

• Willow Does Not
• Winona Does Not
• Wigfrid Does
• Wurt Does
• Wormwood Does Not (?)
• Wolfgang Does Not
• Woodie Does Not
• Wortox Does
• Walter Does
• Wendy Does Not

Yup - meant that since many of the characters have to wait for post-rift, and Klei specifically said that they thought Wendy had a strong early game and weaker late game, the logical setup would be to make this really strong stuff be late game unlocked to solve that problem (after defeating cc or fuelweaver).  No real idea why a huge early game power spiked Abigail was warranted.

[Peasant]

13 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Shadow/gestalt Abigail should require pure horror/pure brilliance for the transform like most of the other characters including Walter/Wortox that have to wait until post-rift for their abilities.  If Klei is trying to buff Abigail for post-rift bosses and raidbosses but not early game (which they said was the case), this stuff should be post-rift.

But neither shadow abi or gestalt abi can deal planar damage, making them unable to adapt to post rift enemies

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Yup - meant that since many of the characters have to wait for post-rift, and Klei specifically said that they thought Wendy had a strong early game and weaker late game, the logical setup would be to make this really strong stuff be late game unlocked to solve that problem (after defeating cc or fuelweaver).  No real idea why a huge early game power spiked Abigail was warranted.

Y'know that's actually fair enough. I think the issue is that while it'd be easy for Lunar Abigail, the nature of Shadow Abigail referencing the murder mechanic makes it harder to incorporate a "lock" to post rift.

Maybe they could tie it to upgrading the sisturn?

[Koomin]

Just now, WenericMember said:

Y'know that's actually fair enough. I think the issue is that while it'd be easy for Lunar Abigail, the nature of Shadow Abigail referencing the murder mechanic makes it harder to incorporate a "lock" to post rift.

Maybe they could tie it to upgrading the sisturn?

Agreed that upgrading the sisturn using pure horror/brilliance would make the current state of shadow/gestalt Abigail much healthier and is a great fix.

Also I may be confused as well, but on your initial list of characters I think Winona gets pure horror/brilliance gemerators and wormwood's relies on post-rift bright shade gear, so it's a bit more tilted than 50/50 (not that it changes the fact that it is inconsistent though)

[Dingle]

10 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

It's honestly kinda 50/50 whether they have to wait pre or post rifts for their alignment Perks

• Willow Does Not (Lunar Flame & Shadow Bernie don't need special materials)
• Winona Does Not (She doesn't even technically align, so idk)
• Wigfrid Does (PH/PB crafting req)
• Wurt Does (PH/PB crafting req)
• Wormwood Does Not (?) (His combat alignment perks do, his non-combat don't)
• Wolfgang Does Not (It matters who he's fighting, not what he's using)
• Woodie Does Not (Passive Benefit)
• Wortox Does (Tied to crafting req)
• Walter Does (PH/PB crafting req)
• Wendy Does Not

Presently its 4-4, with two edge cases.

Winona's lunar catapults are post Celestial Champion kill. It's technically not an alignment, but it is her biggest power increase and locked behind CC.

1 minute ago, Koomin said:

Agreed that upgrading the sisturn using pure horror/brilliance would make the current state of shadow/gestalt Abigail much healthier and is a great fix.

Also I may be confused as well, but on your initial list of characters I think Winona gets pure horror/brilliance gemerators and wormwood's relies on post-rift bright shade gear, so it's a bit more tilted than 50/50 (not that it changes the fact that it is inconsistent though)

Winona can get pure horror pre-rift (and everyone can too, from nightmare werepig)

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Koomin said:

Agreed that upgrading the sisturn using pure horror/brilliance would make the current state of shadow/gestalt Abigail much healthier and is a great fix.

Also I may be confused as well, but on your initial list of characters I think Winona gets pure horror/brilliance gemerators and wormwood's relies on post-rift bright shade gear, so it's a bit more tilted than 50/50 (not that it changes the fact that it is inconsistent though)

I edited the post, but I listed those two as edge cases:

• Do Not need rifts: Wendy, Woodie, Wolfgang, Willow
• Does Need Rifts: Wigfrid, Wurt, Wortox Walter
• Part of their skills need rifts: Wormwood, Winona

Winona and Wormwood aren't categorized as either as some of their skills are rift locked, some aren't.

[Dingle]

8 minutes ago, YXukun said:

But neither shadow abi or gestalt abi can deal planar damage, making them unable to adapt to post rift enemies

If that's true the current special abigails are exactly the opposite of developer intent.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Winona's lunar catapults are post Celestial Champion kill. It's technically not an alignment, but it is her biggest power increase and locked behind CC.

Winona can get pure horror pre-rift (and everyone can too, from nightmare werepig)

Yeah, I ended up judging her as an edge case. 

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

If that's true the current special abigails are exactly the opposite of developer intent.

Shadow Abi gives Planar Defense, and Lunar Sisterhood II potion gives Planar Damage. Tier 1 also gives them both planar defense.

[Peasant]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

If that's true the current special abigails are exactly the opposite of developer intent.

Currently the only way to allow abigail deal planar damage is using lunar potion, but…It feel kinda odd when a shadow abigail uses lunar potion

[Koomin]

12 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Winona's lunar catapults are post Celestial Champion kill. It's technically not an alignment, but it is her biggest power increase and locked behind CC.

Winona can get pure horror pre-rift (and everyone can too, from nightmare werepig)

That's a good point about pure horror - upgrading the sisturn using dark tatters instead would fix that I guess.  Getting dark tatters is needed to use Wortox's shadow alignment so seems pretty reasonable.

[Picklesaurus]

19 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

Meh... just make it so abby loses dmg if she is fighting alone or has no interaction from wendy, the same idea was put in mind for maxwell where if he isn't in the fight or close enough, the minions start doing less damage and attacking slower. 

After playing with Gestalt Abi for some time I unfortunately have to agree, I'd be fine with reducing Gestalt abi damage a bit and require the player to attack for her to not attack slower/keep aggro on the enemy.