Wortox's knabsack sucks...

[loonreaper]

Are you guys really testing this thing out? You can get max damage by day 2-3. Like the poster above me said, it's a dark sword with double the durability, 10x cheaper to make and no sanity drain. Are you guys nuts? Even as a utility its very helpful. Try collecting the honey + stinger left overs with the nap sack, it's so much more convenient than picking it up one by one. I tend to carry 3 soul jars just so I don't have to worry about keeping the number of souls above 100 at all times. And no it's not a big deal to have your inventory space taken, you are Wortox, TP everywhere lol. I started out hating this weapon and then loving it because it's one of the best early to mid-game weapons available (it can last you all the way till you get the shaddow reaper). 

[Dingle]

9 minutes ago, loonreaper said:

Are you guys really testing this thing out? You can get max damage by day 2-3. Like the poster above me said, it's a dark sword with double the durability, 10x cheaper to make and no sanity drain. Are you guys nuts? Even as a utility its very helpful. Try collecting the honey + stinger left overs with the nap sack, it's so much more convenient than picking it up one by one. I tend to carry 3 soul jars just so I don't have to worry about keeping the number of souls above 100 at all times.

What's your secret for finding bottles consistently?

[asdsaax]

Let's debunk if the item is bad:

It takes 1,5 jar to have consistent 50 DMG and 2 Jars to have equivalent of slightly better and permanent hambat
and that costs 2 silk, has 200 durability and never spoils

and I mind you that 1,5 jar is bare minimum to farm bees which leaves you with extra 20 soul space if you avoid "Overflowing Greed" to buy something else

also it's meant to beat up cheap mobs like bees, so you won't throw away dark swords or waste hambats for farming bees
and it's supposed to aid us from early to mid game

Is it bad for complex bosses and ruins rushing? Yes, due to inventory clutter
Is it good for cheap mobs and seasonal bosses? Absolutely

+Even when knabsack falls off, you are still left with boosted soul pierce and decoys

[loonreaper]

8 hours ago, Dingle said:

What's your secret for finding bottles consistently?

At first it was taking me a good 12-14 days or so to get the bottles because I would make a raft and try to just paddle around and find them. Then I saw one of Ameslarii's speed runs and started to mimic his strategy. You really just map the edges and kill the the otters. Eventually an otter will drop a bottle (1 in 20 chance, 2 otters per chance) and you will find 1-2 bottles that spawn near the shore of the edge (usually requires a grass raft to get). You'll find them in 2-3 days if you're luck is good that map but 5-6 if it's not. 

8 hours ago, Lordowsky said:

Let's debunk if the item is bad:

It takes 1,5 jar to have consistent 50 DMG and 2 Jars to have equivalent of slightly better and permanent hambat
and that costs 2 silk, has 200 durability and never spoils

and I mind you that 1,5 jar is bare minimum to farm bees which leaves you with extra 20 soul space if you avoid "Overflowing Greed" to buy something else

also it's meant to beat up cheap mobs like bees, so you won't throw away dark swords or waste hambats for farming bees
and it's supposed to aid us from early to mid game

Is it bad for complex bosses and ruins rushing? Yes, due to inventory clutter
Is it good for cheap mobs and seasonal bosses? Absolutely

+Even when knabsack falls off, you are still left with boosted soul pierce and decoys

Just curious but are people actually playing with below 1-2 soul jars anyway? It's SO cheap and easy to make I can't imagine using another weapon early on. It's gotten to the point where I don't even craft a hambat but just use a spear until I power up the knabsack. I like to keep three soul-jars in my inventory so I consistently do 68 damage even with 1 soul in hand. I also enjoy the +35 souls. Against raid bosses I still have enough stuff (4+ armor, a healing item, mag, etc.) to fight comfortably. Even once I get the shadow reaper (And I get it pretty fast, by the end of winter usually) I still hold 2 sol jars just for the convenience factor. 

Let's look at the class boss run: Beequeen, DFLY, Ancient Guardian, NIghtmare Werepig, Chess Pieces, Klaus, Deerclops, AFW. 

So the only time I encounter inventory problems is when I use up too many armors and I need to split the souls in order take up more space. In battle you don't notice sometimes. There's not a boss there where I would prefer using a hambat against. My normal non-boss rush with Wortox now is something like, AG, NWP, Chess Pieces, Deerclops, AFW with a knabsack + 3 soul jars.  

[mima_]

i still feel uncomfortable about making the damage tied to how many jars it hold.
since having inventory space is crucial in dst. thats why people love krampus sack
why not making it an item with fuel like lantern. which 100% is full damage and decrease every percentage it use  
 

[cropo]

Would be kind of funny if it instead scaled it's damage based on a single stack of coal in your inventory(Krampi carry coal in their sack) which at max would do Dark Sword damage, but whacking enemies with it has a chance to make some coal fall out so you had to collect it.

[arubaro]

9 hours ago, loonreaper said:

Are you guys really testing this thing out? You can get max damage by day 2-3. Like the poster above me said, it's a dark sword with double the durability, 10x cheaper to make and no sanity drain. Are you guys nuts? Even as a utility its very helpful. Try collecting the honey + stinger left overs with the nap sack, it's so much more convenient than picking it up one by one. I tend to carry 3 soul jars just so I don't have to worry about keeping the number of souls above 100 at all times. And no it's not a big deal to have your inventory space taken, you are Wortox, TP everywhere lol. I started out hating this weapon and then loving it because it's one of the best early to mid-game weapons available (it can last you all the way till you get the shaddow reaper). 

How is good wasting 3 inventory slots on jars?

36 minutes ago, loonreaper said:

At first it was taking me a good 12-14 days or so to get the bottles because I would make a raft and try to just paddle around and find them. Then I saw one of Ameslarii's speed runs and started to mimic his strategy. You really just map the edges and kill the the otters. Eventually an otter will drop a bottle (1 in 20 chance, 2 otters per chance) and you will find 1-2 bottles that spawn near the shore of the edge (usually requires a grass raft to get). You'll find them in 2-3 days if you're luck is good that map but 5-6 if it's not. 

Just curious but are people actually playing with below 1-2 soul jars anyway? It's SO cheap and easy to make I can't imagine using another weapon early on. It's gotten to the point where I don't even craft a hambat but just use a spear until I power up the knabsack. I like to keep three soul-jars in my inventory so I consistently do 68 damage even with 1 soul in hand. I also enjoy the +35 souls. Against raid bosses I still have enough stuff (4+ armor, a healing item, mag, etc.) to fight comfortably. Even once I get the shadow reaper (And I get it pretty fast, by the end of winter usually) I still hold 2 sol jars just for the convenience factor. 

Let's look at the class boss run: Beequeen, DFLY, Ancient Guardian, NIghtmare Werepig, Chess Pieces, Klaus, Deerclops, AFW. 

So the only time I encounter inventory problems is when I use up too many armors and I need to split the souls in order take up more space. In battle you don't notice sometimes. There's not a boss there where I would prefer using a hambat against. My normal non-boss rush with Wortox now is something like, AG, NWP, Chess Pieces, Deerclops, AFW with a knabsack + 3 soul jars.  

My plan is to simply use 1 jar. I dont see necessary getting more. For what do you need 120 souls???

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, loonreaper said:

At first it was taking me a good 12-14 days or so to get the bottles because I would make a raft and try to just paddle around and find them. Then I saw one of Ameslarii's speed runs and started to mimic his strategy. You really just map the edges and kill the the otters. Eventually an otter will drop a bottle (1 in 20 chance, 2 otters per chance) and you will find 1-2 bottles that spawn near the shore of the edge (usually requires a grass raft to get). You'll find them in 2-3 days if you're luck is good that map but 5-6 if it's not. 

Just curious but are people actually playing with below 1-2 soul jars anyway? It's SO cheap and easy to make I can't imagine using another weapon early on

I've been doing the same strategy, and then saw his. You can luck out, but it's inconsistent. I had one game where I got 5 bottles by day 5, 2 with 2 bottles by day 11, and 1 with 1 bottle.

In my 5 bottle game I didn't get enough red gems to make 3 soul jars (moonstone rush worlds). I imagined 3 jars is when the knabsack feels worth it. It feels terrible at 1, because you're constantly losing the 50 damage breakpoint.

[Hollow soul 3]

3 hours ago, mima_ said:

i still feel uncomfortable about making the damage tied to how many jars it hold.
since having inventory space is crucial in dst. thats why people love krampus sack
why not making it an item with fuel like lantern. which 100% is full damage and decrease every percentage it use  
 

I like this the most. I think the naughty tree needs something to do with your souls in inventory, and this feels like the easiest solution

[Bumber64]

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

How is good wasting 3 inventory slots on jars?

Because you can use them to teleport wherever after you're done fighting?

Because one of those would be a second dark sword otherwise?

[Echsrick]

23 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Because you can use them to teleport wherever after you're done fighting?

Because one of those would be a second dark sword otherwise?

i mean, may aswell use just dark swords, there not that hard to come by, and almost anything you kill drops a soul either way

[GimplyGoose]

7 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Because you can use them to teleport wherever after you're done fighting?

Because one of those would be a second dark sword otherwise?

Let's compare inventory requirements of some different common weapons:

Hambat: usually just 1-3 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for pigskin, and maybe 1 for twigs. Usually you don't carry raw meat around and it is easy enough to replenish. You are probably using a football helmet at this point, so the pig skin is probably shared for that purpose.

Dark sword: 3 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for nightmare fuel, and 1 for living logs.

Brightshade sword/shadow reaper: 2 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for the repair kit.

Knabsack: 3-6 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for the souls (you will almost always have souls regardless of the weapon so maybe don't count this slot against the weapon), 1-3 slots for jars, 1 for silk.

You are going to be sacrificing quite a few more inventory slots for the knabsack, but some of the slots won't be completely dead slots and would help with utility.

[arubaro]

40 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Because you can use them to teleport wherever after you're done fighting?

Because one of those would be a second dark sword otherwise?

How many souls do you think are required to TP from one side to another of the map??? And even if was as expensive isnt worth, i prefer walking over wasting that much inventory for saving few seconds and having what i can get with NF and living logs...

[Bumber64]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

How many souls do you think are required to TP from one side to another of the map??? And even if was as expensive isnt worth, i prefer walking over wasting that much inventory for saving few seconds and having what i can get with NF and living logs...

If you enjoy farming living logs.

[Jazzuo]

20 hours ago, Soul7k said:

it is both. it caps at 68 damage, which at that point....just use a shadow sword. you won't have to ruin inventory management for the same amount of damage

i mean tbh every knabsack because the durability is like having 2 dark swords with only one item space, besides with wortox you're not going to bring sanity food or healing food at bosses most of the time, because it sucks with wortox thanks to be half effective

16 minutes ago, GimplyGoose said:

Let's compare inventory requirements of some different common weapons:

Hambat: usually just 1-3 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for pigskin, and maybe 1 for twigs. Usually you don't carry raw meat around and it is easy enough to replenish. You are probably using a football helmet at this point, so the pig skin is probably shared for that purpose.

Dark sword: 3 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for nightmare fuel, and 1 for living logs.

Brightshade sword/shadow reaper: 2 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for the repair kit.

Knabsack: 3-6 slots, 1 for the weapon, 1 for the souls (you will almost always have souls regardless of the weapon so maybe don't count this slot against the weapon), 1-3 slots for jars, 1 for silk.

You are going to be sacrificing quite a few more inventory slots for the knabsack, but some of the slots won't be completely dead slots and would help with utility.

yeah but in that example you don't really need to make another knabsack tho, if with 2 dark swords is more than enough for example, because the knabsack has double durability than the dark sword, so basically you're saying that in a boss situation you're going to use 4 dark swords, which unless is toadstool i don't think that's fair, besides you want jar either way, the main problem with wortox is that everytime you tp to somewhere very far like lunar island or do things with your soul, at some point you're going to go for more souls, having at least 2 jar let you have 120 souls max, which mean that wortox doesn't have to replinish souls so often as before besides like you're not going to use food in boss fights with wortox, at least not healing or sanity food

[GimplyGoose]

8 minutes ago, Jazzuo said:

yeah but in that example you don't really need to make another knabsack tho, if with 2 dark swords is more than enough for example, because the knabsack has double durability than the dark sword, so basically you're saying that in a boss situation you're going to use 4 dark swords, which unless is toadstool i don't think that's fair

200 * 68 = 13600 which is not enough damage to kill bq, dfly, Klaus, toadstool, or cc. Not to mention that if you are just using it as you play, you might want to be able to just craft a new one when it breaks.

[Jazzuo]

Just now, GimplyGoose said:

200 * 68 = 13600 which is not enough damage to kill bq, dfly, Klaus, toadstool, or cc. Not to mention that if you are just using it as you play, you might want to be able to just craft a new one when it breaks.

i mean yeah, but like dark sword can make half of that damage and it also requieres you more sanity food only because dark sword drains sanity, still like saying 2 slots which i mean are easily replaced because you don't need nor healing food or sanity food is like a bad thing

[GimplyGoose]

9 minutes ago, Jazzuo said:

i mean yeah, but like dark sword can make half of that damage and it also requieres you more sanity food only because dark sword drains sanity, still like saying 2 slots which i mean are easily replaced because you don't need nor healing food or sanity food is like a bad thing

I'm just saying you will be using more slots with the knabsack compared with other weapon options. This isn't necessarily a bad thing because those extra slots (besides silk) can also be used for utility like teleporting, food, or healing. It does take more slots though and even if you went with the absolute minimum slots to achieve max damage of 4 slots (2 jars + 20 souls + weapon) it is still more than dark word's 3 and you probably want even more slots than that. Probably 2 more, 1 for silk and 1 for a 3rd jar since 2 jars only gives you 10 souls of leeway to reach max damage. 6 slots is a lot for a weapon and you probably want to be able to replace it if it breaks.

I'm not saying it isn't worth it though, as Wortox is able to quickly drop stuff off at base with his teleporting so he has less of a need for a large amount of inventory space compared to other characters.