Wendy Beefalo Damage Poll

[Cheggf]

38 minutes ago, cyjs said:

You look dissatisfied? Need I tell you the fact that most of this game’s revenue comes from Chinese players? Need I tell you that Chinese company Tencent owns a majority stake in klei? Even so, we do not interfere with your freedom. The continued operation of this game cannot be separated from Chinese players. Recently, we shed tears and braved language barriers to lend our voices to our favorite characters. Many people don't speak the language. We can only make small sounds and repeated words, but you think we are just passers-by? Is he a troublemaker who is being manipulated by others? Do you need me to repeat what I said above? Please respect us, okay bro?

You are interfering with my freedom to enjoy the game by brigading for bad changes.

[Bumber64]

6 minutes ago, Sikers said:

It's not unique, other, dmage multipliers like Willow's Burning Frenzy, Wigfrid's songs or chilli can also affect beefalos damage, same goes for Volt goat jelly. I really don't understand why people want to get rid of this synergy now, when it's always been part of the game

That makes sense for the 1.15x buff that allies get, but not the 1.54x that comes out of nowhere.

Volt goat jelly should have to be fed to the beefalo instead of the player to make sense.

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

That makes sense for the 1.15x buff, but not the 1.54x that comes out of nowhere.

Doesnt she end up hitting for like 100 on an Ornery? Or am I imagining this?

[hyoton123]

With a War Saddle I think, yeah.

[Bumber64]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Doesnt she end up hitting for like 100 on an Ornery? Or am I imagining this?

101, apparently.

What does nightmare saddle do to lunar mobs?

[Dingle]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

101, apparently.

What does nightmare saddle do to lunar mobs?

Thanks, the gaslighting was getting to me .

I remember that nightmare saddle actually does a little less than war for Wendy in general, as hex doesn't apply to planar damage. I forget the exact number, though.

[ConstantBreeze]

39 minutes ago, Sikers said:

It's not unique, other, dmage multipliers like Willow's Burning Frenzy, Wigfrid's songs or chilli can also affect beefalos damage, same goes for Volt goat jelly. I really don't understand why people want to get rid of this synergy now, when it's always been part of the game

Well it's simple Wendy is a "Noob" trap, and therefore players learning to best utilize her character perks is wrong, or something.

 

Because clearly a character that spawns in with a way to increase damage, higher base health at no other altercation to their playstyle, while having an incredibly strong favorite food is more balanced than Wendy players sacrificing time and resources to pull a slightly worse darksword with a slower attack speed and a 54% ish damage buff. All while having to keep the thing giving the damage buff alive while it takes double damage with no armor from bosses, the thing you would want to use such damage on in the first place.

 

Obviously.

[Sapientis]

5 hours ago, Cheggf said:

all I saw was a poll that showed 72% of people consider her strong and only 5.6% of people consider her weak

Yo, this is just the "Basic survival" question, the answer to the poll comes from both questions 1 and 2, where 2 summs up her strength against tougher foes (I'm something of an expert of this poll, you know )

And, from what I understand, the main two answers come from people who consider playing her with a beefalo, and those who don't.

If that is the case (as this would explain split duality of this gauss bell poll answers), then either Wendy's beefalo interaction should be nerfed or her solo playstyle should be buffed.

Maybe she should have some skills connecting her to the Beefalo like Wigfrid has, who benefits from beefalo far worse than most other characters due to her base 25% damange and protection buffs not working for the beefalo.

[ConstantBreeze]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

Aren't you going to end up bucked if you keep getting hit? Beefalo have 1000 health, so you can wait a bit between heals if you're using the speed to avoid hits.

If your asking if taking too much damage causes your beefalo to buck you off you have proven my theory that nobody who thinks Wendy needs this nerf has tamed a beefalo ever in any sense, ornery or otherwise.

A tamed beefalo will not buck you off unless you have been mounted for an exceptionally long time. Though ornery will need fed even when tamed before they let you mount them. Leading to them not being the free weapon people seem to think.

You will rarely, if ever, have the luxury of dismounting your beefalo to feed it without getting it, yourself, or both of you killed, due to it unpredictably running off in a random direction a vast majority of the time, often toward something hostile where it gets hit, refuses to eat, takes double damage depending on the enemy, won't let you mount because it needs to eat, and then dying.

Not to mention, vegetables don't hold well, I don't have time to also add unwrapping the beefalo feed, that already took me forever to collect before hand, to my fight when Wendy's playstyle is based around time of day.

There's a reason we don't fight Fuelweaver mounted. It's often fight first, heal later.

Healing the beefalo isn't a good idea, putting the bell away from the fight and continuing on foot is usually the play if you don't plan on full committing.

 

Besides I don't see why the beefalo discussion is directed at Wendy, Maxwell (who also doesn't need a nerf, I don't know why everyone is trying to nerf everyone else in a primarily team based PvE game, clearly if Wendy was Truely broken every server would be ornery beefalo simulator) is right there negating both his low health pool and his best hand-slot weapon not actually being a weapon.

Go start a new world and tame an ornery beefalo, no guides, no mods telling you the beefalo's health, or buck timer, or obedience, just raw unfiltered 24 days of pain while trying to get anything done. Spend 24 days using an effective spear that wants you and itself dead rather than a hambat.

Try doing it without breaking a saddle.

[Bumber64]

16 minutes ago, ConstantBreeze said:

If your asking if taking too much damage causes your beefalo to buck you off you have proven my theory that nobody who thinks Wendy needs this nerf has tamed a beefalo ever in any sense, ornery or otherwise.

I was under the impression that bosses can knock you off, but marble armor gave some kind of resistance.

In any case, doing more damage than endgame weapons pre-rift is obviously imbalanced. (Are you trying to steal Wolfgang's job?)

[Mike23Ua]

Let me put it this way… it used to take 20 real human days of nonstop care every 8 hours to fully raise a baby Giga on Ark Survival, but after doing so you had yourself one of the most powerful creatures in the game.

I treat DSTs Beefalos under the same concept, you spend 24 days feeding it, riding it constantly being thrown off its back, protecting it to keep it from dying, burning through resources when it shakes its saddle off lowering it durability, and you have to get all of this done BEFORE it goes into heat and refuses to let you tame it.. And even after you’ve done all that: It can still permanently die in one hit to a mob or boss if you aren’t overly cautious.

Hilariously it actually takes more effort to manage and care for a smelly FurCow then it does Abigail, who even if she dies can just be continuously resummoned over and over with no cooldown.

[ConstantBreeze]

2 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Was under the impression that bosses can knock you off, but marble armor gave some kind of resistance.

In any case, doing more damage than endgame weapons pre-rift is obviously imbalanced. (That's Wolfgang's job!)

Even in those fights marble armor doesn't help, we usually just leave the beefalo somewhere safe and pull out our hambats unless we're really confident we can no hit.

[Copyafriend]

11 minutes ago, ConstantBreeze said:

Go start a new world and tame an ornery beefalo, no guides, no mods telling you the beefalo's health, or buck timer, or obedience, just raw unfiltered 24 days of pain while trying to get anything done. Spend 24 days using an effective spear that wants you and itself dead rather than a hambat.

Its actually not THAT hard to tame an ornery beefalo, my recommendation is picking cactus and spikey bushes and then fighting weak creatures who need to be cleared and are easy to fight like tier 1 and 2 spider dens + bees.

An ornery without a warsaddle is also worth using.

 

Honestly i think people are being weirdly "its do or die" on this topic. It absolutely is not a core strength of wendy to have beefalo buffs. People who do use this mechanic probably enjoy it, but it wohld still be plenty effective with the regular 10% buff too.

And for the people who are acting like its the end of the world if it doesnt get nerfed: beefalo already dont do great (good, but not great) dps thanks to their lowered attack speed. Wendy having to keep two relatively fragile (600 and 1000) creatures alive to not even out dps wolfgang, winona, warly, Or wanda.

If you wanna cry about animation cancelling, that boosts player damage too.

 

Calm down, for real.

[ConstantBreeze]

5 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Let me put it this way… it used to take 20 real human days of nonstop care every 8 hours to fully raise a baby Giga on Ark Survival, but after doing so you had yourself one of the most powerful creatures in the game.

I treat DSTs Beefalos under the same concept, you spend 24 days feeding it, riding it constantly being thrown off its back, protecting it to keep it from dying, burning through resources when it shakes its saddle off lowering it durability, and you have to get all of this done BEFORE it goes into heat and refuses to let you tame it.. And even after you’ve done all that: It can still permanently die in one hit to a mob or boss if you aren’t overly cautious.

Hilariously it actually takes more effort to manage and care for a smelly FurCow then it does Abigail, who even if she dies can just be continuously resummoned over and over with no cooldown.

I'm glad at least some people are on the same page.

If wendy mains were truly overpowered everyone wolfgang main would switch off.

We don't spawn in and lift our free weight and animation cancel dragonfly into the knocked down state with a hambat.

We spend a little more than a season for a mount that punishes you HARD for letting it die.

Oh no, I lost mightiness I have to hit something twice to get absurd damage back and deal with a short stun lock while changing. Or do nothing and get a 10% speedboost.

Vs.

Oh no, I've made an irreversible error due to my hubris and genuinely have to debate reloading the entire world over it.

[Bumber64]

People do raise beefalo just for transportation, though. Riding even increases domestication. It's not something just Wendy/Maxwell mains do.

Need to carry heavy object, but you're not Wolfgang? Beefalo. Can't teleport everywhere? Next best thing.

Pretending as if people don't rollback for boss fights? Eventually there's gloom bell.

[Cheggf]

40 minutes ago, Sapientis said:

Yo, this is just the "Basic survival" question, the answer to the poll comes from both questions 1 and 2, where 2 summs up her strength against tougher foes (I'm something of an expert of this poll, you know )

But there's no "How strong is she?" question. It's just "Basic survival" which is vague and more encompassing or "Fighting tougher foes" which is one specific thing. I, and I'm sure many others, interpreted the first question as her overall power & the second question as her power against bosses. Especially considering the first question is right under "IS WENDY A STRONG CHARACTER?" and the answers are things like "THE strongest of all" & "Very strong". Even if someone was just voting for her "basic survival" I don't think it's fair to say that someone who's "very strong" at such a general and broad thing is a weak character. They're clearly a strong character.

[Sapientis]

13 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

But there's no "How strong is she?" question. It's just "Basic survival" which is vague and more encompassing or "Fighting tougher foes" which is one specific thing. I, and I'm sure many others, interpreted the first question as her overall power & the second question as her power against bosses. Especially considering the first question is right under "IS WENDY A STRONG CHARACTER?" and the answers are things like "THE strongest of all" & "Very strong". Even if someone was just voting for her "basic survival" I don't think it's fair to say that someone who's "very strong" at such a general and broad thing is a weak character. They're clearly a strong character.

The poll was built in the manner of:

How good are cereal with milk?

1. cereal...

2. milk...

3. do you like cereals with milk?

I'm not extremaly proficient in creating such scientific research, but clearly cereal with milk consist of both cereal and milk. They might be valued one by one and by a subjective opinion about the sum.

Maybe this is not the best reference, as Cereal and milk are more disconnected...

 

So let it be:

How good are Nike shoes at walking?

1. casual walks

2. mountain long walks

3. do you like walking in Nike?

 

Perhaps you're right the poll isn't answered properly by some people, but it allows for some overview on Wendy's strength in forum playerbase opinion. As all polls it needs to be read with a grain of salt and some tolerance for improper answers.

 

Edit:
Also statements like "strong", "weak", "good", etc. are broad, vague and highly subjective to certain perspective. The poll doesn't have one question to answer the main question, because I believed character strenght is measured by many factors, some of them are not even included in that poll, because I might not have full knowledge what truly makes a strong character.

Spoiler

I mean muscles ofc, duh? Wolfgang gang unite!

 

[Sapientis]

1 minute ago, Fitzee said:

Blaming the people answering the poll rather than the structure of the poll itself... classic behavior. 

Did I? I just said it's possible, I also said I'm not fluent in creating the polls, but I did it as well as I could.

It's not my fault some people read what they want to instead of what is written.

[DVGMedia]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

That makes sense for the 1.15x buff that allies get, but not the 1.54x that comes out of nowhere.

Volt goat jelly should have to be fed to the beefalo instead of the player to make sense.

The thing is though wendy already just has a 1.55 damage buff.
But its not really a damage buff its only a buff based on attacking a weakened enemy
the only reason its 1.15 is because her initial debuff.

The thing is though there are times when it benefits to use a beefalo and other times where it doesn't.
Wendy on foot is always going to be much more tanky than a beefalo and the time to mitigate that by healing a beefalo is really slow.  So you really don't want to be tanking on a beefalo.
there are not many combat situations where a warsaddle is good in  because you need the speed more from the other saddles.

If you choose to use beefalos in certain fights you will have a harder time dealing with the enemy and even taking a bigger risk of both you and the beefalo you spent time on dying.  If you don't have something that can save you and the beef.

one thing i hate right now is that if you do get knocked off  a beefalo from an attack the beefalo aggros instead of being neutral. Which should not happen.

[Sapientis]

32 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

giving Wendy more incentives to fight on foot would be quite preferable; it wouldn't have to resort to nerfing something else per say, but it's not like I'm a fan of using beefalo that much anyway.

Yea, because for now it's more like Wendy+Abi+Beefalo = 1.6 Wilson+Beefalo, Wendy+Abi = 1.2 Wilson, but Wendy = 0.8 Wilson.

So lowering Wendy+Abi+Beefalo damage to something more like 1.2 Wilson+Beefalo seems better.

Just Wendy on the Beefalo shouldn't have the 40% increased damage but only usual 10%

[Bumber64]

24 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

The thing is though wendy already just has a 1.55 damage buff.
But its not really a damage buff its only a buff based on attacking a weakened enemy
the only reason its 1.15 is because her initial debuff.

Yes, because it's specifically designed to cancel out the debuff. The problem is that beefalo already cancels out the debuff by using 1.0x regardless of rider.

So the 1.54 value is erroneously applied to a 1.0 modifier, when it should be applying the default 1.15 it uses for non-Wendy.

[DVGMedia]

Just now, Bumber64 said:

Yes, because it's specifically designed to cancel out the debuff. The problem is that beefalo already cancels out the debuff by using 1.0x regardless of rider.

So the 1.54 value is erroneously applied to a 1.0 modifier, when it should be applying the default 1.15 it uses for non-Wendy.

but it wouldn't do the .15 it would only do the 10% weakness debuff. It works that way because of the way its done mobs already take 10 percent more thanks to the abby debuff.  and if wendy hits a debuffed mob that hit does 40 percent more. this is applied after all damage so it just takes whatever damage wendy dealt and adds the 10 and the 40 multiplier. so even if the hit is 66 from an ornery saddle beefalo it is still from a wendy Because it is not a damage calculation its a debuff That gets added after all damage calculations. Its the mob that has this bonus weakness to wendy instead of wendy having more damage. Thats why the beefalo works.

Its the same reason Burning frenzys 25% bonus damage works on a beefalo too because its a weakness applied only for willows that have that skill active at the time.
And also for volt goat jelly and spice aswell.  Both are active at different parts of the calculation.

you can actually see this if you spice up the player. Then hop on the beefalo. The beefalo wont have the plus 20% damage from the spice because its the player that has the 20% damage buff. Meaning that 20% is negated by the beefalo damage. This is the pre calculations that every player is affected by when riding a beefalo. If you feed the spice to the beefalo then the beefalos damage gets affected by the 20% since it is separate from the players original damage calculation.

Volt jelly is different though since its not a damage up It simply makes attacks electric which is damage increased outside of the original damage calculations. It is not damage attached to the player. The same goes for wendys bonus damage against vexed enemies and abigails debuff and burning frenzy. They are all calculations outside of the one that is applied to the player for riding a beefalos.
 

So as the klei developers always say "Its working as intended."

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, kroban said:

 

But shes definitely strong, I dont understand why people went after the devs for stating the truth. Theres a reason why she has been the most played character probably since the entire existence of DST. Lot of people in the forum use her being cute as a dull excuse for why shes the most played but come on, all characters are fairly cute in this game and thats not a good excuse for a character having such a consistently big amount of players. She has been the most played even AFTER half the cast got their skill trees, and that says a lot.

I dont agree at all with her current skill tree but, what do people want really? Her hitting like Wolfgang while Abigail tanks as much as Bernie while also hitting like Wolfgang but in aoe? Come on now

I mostly wanted more potions and stackability.
as well as adding in the planar stuff they do with every update.  It was just expected abby would get planar entity protection like other characters that are reliant on mobs.
Bernie and the merms of wurt.
I think most of the stuff they added was fine just small tweaks here and there as well as giving new toys to play with which was the petal stuff and the gestalt abby

[Bumber64]

9 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

but it wouldn't do the .15 it would only do the 10% weakness debuff. It works that way because of the way its done mobs already take 10 percent more thanks to the abby debuff.  and if wendy hits a debuffed mob that hit does 40 percent more. this is applied after all damage so it just takes whatever damage wendy dealt and adds the 10 and the 40 multiplier. so even if the hit is 66 from an ornery saddle beefalo it is still from a wendy Because it is not a damage calculation its a debuff That gets added after all damage calculations. Its the mob that has this bonus weakness to wendy instead of wendy having more damage. Thats why the beefalo works.

Its the same reason Burning frenzys 25% bonus damage works on a beefalo too because its a weakness applied only for willows that have that skill active at the time.
And also for volt goat jelly and spice aswell.  Both are active at different parts of the calculation.

you can actually see this if you spice up the player. Then hop on the beefalo. The beefalo wont have the plus 20% damage from the spice because its the player that has the 20% damage buff. Meaning that 20% is negated by the beefalo damage. This is the pre calculations that every player is affected by when riding a beefalo. If you feed the spice to the beefalo then the beefalos damage gets affected by the 20% since it is separate from the players original damage calculation.

Volt jelly is different though since its not a damage up It simply makes attacks electric which is damage increased outside of the original damage calculations. It is not damage attached to the player. The same goes for wendys bonus damage against vexed enemies and abigails debuff and burning frenzy. They are all calculations outside of the one that is applied to the player for riding a beefalos.
 

So as the klei developers always say "Its working as intended."

10% then. Clearly a beefalo isn't a Wendy nor a Willow. Given the beefalo uses its own damage mult and health while ridden, it's logically supposed to be the one attacking. Things are just a mess since the player is being "disguised" as a beefalo rather than actually controlling one (which itself could cause issues with hostile followers, double hit from AoE, no credit for boss kills, etc.).

The spice/volt thing further illustrates the issue. It's a tangled mess of code that needs manual fixes to get a coherent result. Beefalo gets the spice, but player gets volt jelly. It should always be the beefalo, since we aren't swinging a weapon from its back.

[ConstantBreeze]

10 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

10% then. Clearly a beefalo isn't a Wendy nor a Willow. Given the beefalo uses its own damage mult and health while ridden, it's logically supposed to be the one attacking.

Clearly the 40% buff should only be applied to punching

The hambat, darksword, etc. is doing the damage not Wendy

37 minutes ago, kroban said:

I dont understand why people went after the devs for stating the truth.

Is that what this is all about?

Is everyone really upset that one of the devs said Wendy is strong?

Why, do people just want the meta to be play Wolfgang, Wigfrid, and the DLC characters and otherwise don't show up?

 

"WHAT WENDY IS VIABLE AS A COMBAT CHARACTER?! BLASPHEMY, I SAY!! THE META SHOULD BE DULL AND RESTRICTIVE!"

 

 

(These were supposed to be separate, but they can be together, I don't care)