Wendy Beefalo Damage Poll

[WenericMember]

With multiple threads popping up debating the merits of Wendy's unique interaction with Beefalo, I think it would be a good idea to get a poll on how people thing the interaction should be managed, to get a clearer gauge of thoughts.

To those unfamiliar, Wendy has a 0.75x damage multiplier at base, and Abi's Vex applies a 1.1 multiplier. However, When Wendy speciifcally attacks a target with Vex, her damage is equal to that of any survivor attacking a hexed target, giving her effectively a ~1.56 multiplier from her base 0.75x damage (I don't remember the exact value).

However, when riding the Beefalo Wendy's 0.75 damage is negated, but her improved hex efficiency remains, giving any beefalo Wendy's riding a 1.56 damage multiplier over normal, as long as she's attacking with Abigail.

Some people believe this is too strong, and others also believe that this is part of the reason Klei decided to giver her a significantly weaker skill tree, but It'd be good to gather a wider array of opinions.

[Siren11]

I don’t want it to be nerfed. But if it must be nerfed, I think the skill tree should be strengthened to compensate.

(Also, Wendy’s Beefalo + Vex damage is 1.54x)

[Gashzer]

Wendy mains you guys can keep your beefalo buff and enjoy your lackluster skilltree because of it

[Ridepod]

This is the kinda thing that should have potentially changed during Wendys initial rework, its a bit late to change it now. Wendys synergy with beefalo is one of the reasons i primarily play her.

I doubt this will get changed since it hasnt warranted it thus far, but it is odd to see people suddenly asking for a nerf after it seems like half the forums went into a tizzy after Jason called her "strong"

[Cheggf]

34 minutes ago, Ridepod said:

This is the kinda thing that should have potentially changed during Wendys initial rework

Her initial rework is the thing that brought it into existence.

35 minutes ago, Ridepod said:

I doubt this will get changed since it hasnt warranted it thus far, but it is odd to see people suddenly asking for a nerf after it seems like half the forums went into a tizzy after Jason called her "strong"

Half the forums? I never saw anyone complaining about that, all I saw was a poll that showed 72% of people consider her strong and only 5.6% of people consider her weak, a whopping 5 people said she's weak.

[cropo]

I hit other because I still don't really see it as a nerf, more of a change to make the mechanic work more logically. The Beefalo is doing the attack, not Wendy, so it should not benefit from Wendy's unique buff.


Other workarounds to improve a Beefalo's performance, like Warly's volt goat jelly seemingly working on Beefalos shouldn't be a thing either.

While the overall result is a character doing less damage, I still wouldn't consider it a nerf because I don't consider the existence of this to be a legitimate mechanic in the first place. Like if I equipped a Poison dagger but my mount attacked an enemy, the enemy shouldn't be getting poisoned because it was my mount that did the attack.

If you really want to go over balance I think Beefalos are generous enough as-is, they are still a damage-soaking, Tentacle-spike damage speedster that requires an extremely bare minimum of maintenence compared to other tools and weapons. The beefalo would still ignore her damage multiplier, as it should, and it would still get a damage bonus from the vex, just not one that was intended for Wendy.

Whether or not Wendy being able to supercharge her beefalo has any practical use in game or not isn't the point; it's just not a logical mechanic and I don't like it.

[Ridepod]

15 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Half the forums? I never saw anyone complaining about that, all I saw was a poll that showed 72% of people consider her strong and only 5.6% of people consider her weak, a whopping 5 people said she's weak.

Mostly referencing the continuous stream of poorly translated posts throwing digs at the designers for not being good at the game or playing it or whatever since they called her strong and it feeling like half the posts on the first page were those.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, Ridepod said:

Mostly referencing the continuous stream of posts of poorly translated posts throwing digs at the designers for not being good at the game or playing it or whatever since they called her strong and it feeling like half the posts on the first page were those.

Chinese people come across as extremely sassy because of google translate 

[walter1808]

Wendy has to ride a creature that take 20 days to tame early game and 15 in late game with the durability of a single football helmet unless you go post rift content, is way more tedious and risky to heal in combat while also having to manage a sister that gets 4 shot by most bosses. All of that just to deal slightly more damage than Wigfrid if they use an item that require ruin rushing in the early game or extreme luck in the late game. Compare to Wolfgang who get 90% protection and more damage than her on day 1, or Wigfrid who not only deal similar damage early but also have reduced damage taken and healing on hit, I think Wendy's beefalo interaction is mild at best

[Cheggf]

36 minutes ago, Ridepod said:

Mostly referencing the continuous stream of poorly translated posts throwing digs at the designers for not being good at the game or playing it or whatever since they called her strong and it feeling like half the posts on the first page were those.

Those threads are both not about what Jason said (it's just about her skill tree) and also effectively made by one person since they're making accounts specifically for the purpose of doing what someone else told them to do. Notice how they all have no posts here. They aren't forum goers, they're brigaders. 

[Pominsing]

I have no issue with removing the powerful combination of Wendy and beefalos, but if it’s removed, Wendy will need a more practical skill tree.

In the current late-game environment, the combination of Wendy and a beefalo is practically dispensable.

[Ridepod]

6 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

Those threads are both not about what Jason said (it's just about her skill tree) and also effectively made by one person since they're making accounts specifically for the purpose of doing what someone else told them to do. Notice how they all have no posts here. They aren't forum goers, they're brigaders. 

It's no secret that the Chinese DST players are the majority and I don't see any reason to not expect them to overflow into here, especially if they're discontent with the beta. Regardless, those unhelpful overtly negative posts are dominating the front page especially when they keep getting bumped and are arguably more influential when that happens

 

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Wendy mains you guys can keep your beefalo buff and enjoy your lackluster skilltree because of it

lowkey would prefer this, imo skill tree updates should just make characters scale better post-rift without sacrificing the characters existing perks

[Pominsing]

2 hours ago, Ridepod said:

This is the kinda thing that should have potentially changed during Wendys initial rework, its a bit late to change it now. Wendys synergy with beefalo is one of the reasons i primarily play her.

I doubt this will get changed since it hasnt warranted it thus far, but it is odd to see people suddenly asking for a nerf after it seems like half the forums went into a tizzy after Jason called her "strong"

That is indeed quite "peculiar"

[Bumber64]

It should be nerfed because it doesn't make sense. If the beefalo is subject to the full buff, then logically it would need to suffer the 0.75x debuff with Abi gone.

Her skill tree is a separate thing. If it's underpowered, then it shouldn't remain so on the idea that everyone's forced to use a beefalo to compensate. It's not sold as part of her character kit.

[ConstantBreeze]

I feel everyone who complains how strong beefalo are forgets that wolfgang/wigfrid spawn in with the ability to do similar damage for free and also that:

 

A.) We spent 24 days taming that beefalo, which kept bucking us off while fighting, eating several stacks of sticks, grass, lightbulbs, etc., and making sure it doesn't get itself killed. We don't just magically spawn in with an ornery beefalo on a bell.

B.) That multiplier, gained only when fighting with Abby, means nothing against low health mobs, and can only be used if you skillfully position Abby against most bosses where it does matter (I will admit that occasionally you get a freebie, looking at you Antlion)

C.) it's actually quite hard to heal on a vegetarian diet unless you lock yourself in your base for a season farming potatoes or sacrifice hundreds of living logs overtime to mushroom logs for blue caps.

D.) To truly maximize with the warsaddle you need to either complete a ruins rush with year of the bunnyman enabled and deconstruct a steel wool pillow, which while unlikely, there is a chance no bunnyman spawns with one. Or you need to get lucky for two successful hunts to end in an ewecus, for 16 extra damage at base.

E.) If that beefalo dies. And your not a rollback coward. It's DONE, GONE, DEAD, BACK TO SQUARE ONE. Forget about those 24 days of taming, forget about those 12 giants you felled, all the lightbulbs you collected together, your ruins rush, ancient guardian, bee queen, everything, it doesn't matter, it's dead start over, tame a new one, sorry buddy, you lost.

[SilverSpoon]

If beefalo Wendy's riding a 1.56 damage multiplier is broken, It's current Wendy is broken and it's not skill tree issue except for Shadow Allegiance II which boosts Vex. If you're skilled enough you can current Wendy attack with 1.56 damage multiplier, and skill tree will nothing more than just makes it easy.

[Eieni]

58 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

It should be nerfed because it doesn't make sense. If the beefalo is subject to the full buff, then logically it would need to suffer the 0.75x debuff with Abi gone.

Her skill tree is a separate thing. If it's underpowered, then it shouldn't remain so on the idea that everyone's forced to use a beefalo to compensate. It's not sold as part of her character kit.

The beef ignores self modifiers, both good and bad. The implication of this suggestion is modifiers will transfer to the beef, which would mean Wolfgang and Wanda would just be way stronger than they already are while only weakening characters that are only compensating for their weakness.

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, ConstantBreeze said:

C.) it's actually quite hard to heal on a vegetarian diet unless you lock yourself in your base for a season farming potatoes or sacrifice hundreds of living logs overtime to mushroom logs for blue caps.

E.) If that beefalo dies. And your not a rollback coward. It's DONE, GONE, DEAD, BACK TO SQUARE ONE. Forget about those 24 days of taming, forget about those 12 giants you felled, all the lightbulbs you collected together, your ruins rush, ancient guardian, bee queen, everything, it doesn't matter, it's dead start over, tame a new one, sorry buddy, you lost.

Wurt manages. (As does Wormwood.) Beefalo has a 4x heal multiplier, IIRC, as well as passive regen.

Gloombell exists post-rifts.

[Mike23Ua]

I mean.. if I invest the 24 days into dedicating my time to taming it and keeping it alive, then yes I’m completely entitled to use it..?

Abigails Petal Bestowment buff was intended to do things like make a server full of Wes’s actually be useful in a fight.

Wendy gains a damage buff from attacking things that Abigail is Attacking.

And I don’t know how many of you actually play this game on Xbox.. but during the taming process or even after it’s fully tamed out.. if you accidentally “hit” your Beefalo with Abigail out, Abby WILL murder it, you can “dismiss” Abigail but by doing so that p’d off Beefalo will now chase you to the ends of the earth.

It’s not exactly the complete “free ride” people make it out to be.

But I do guess that some Wolfgang Mains may be a bit upset that they don’t get any sort of bonuses from having a FurCow.

[AliceMagtron]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

if you accidentally “hit” your Beefalo with Abigail out, Abby WILL murder it

never tried on X-box, and why someone is out will murder it? also on pc there should be no chance u can atk your tamed beefalo when its saddle on, if someone else do did it on purpose, as long as the bell is in your inventory, just go offline and beefalo will too. u u did, let abi atk once and get hate, then take abi back, so your beefalo will loss hate and calm down, that also applicable to employ a sleeping rock lobster.

[cyjs]

Cheggf 3小时前说道：

这些线程既不是关于杰森所说的（只是关于她的技能树），也是由一个人有效创建的，因为他们专门为了做别人告诉他们做的事情而创建帐户。请注意，他们在这里都没有帖子。他们不是论坛常客，而是旅长。 

You look dissatisfied? Need I tell you the fact that most of this game’s revenue comes from Chinese players? Need I tell you that Chinese company Tencent owns a majority stake in klei? Even so, we do not interfere with your freedom. The continued operation of this game cannot be separated from Chinese players. Recently, we shed tears and braved language barriers to lend our voices to our favorite characters. Many people don't speak the language. We can only make small sounds and repeated words, but you think we are just passers-by? Is he a troublemaker who is being manipulated by others? Do you need me to repeat what I said above? Please respect us, okay bro?

[hyoton123]

I VOTED FOR THE WRONG THING!! I voted the first option but I should have voted for no change.

[ConstantBreeze]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

Wurt manages. (As does Wormwood.) Beefalo has a 4x heal multiplier, IIRC, as well as passive regen.

Gloombell exists post-rifts.

here's the difference, they can chug potatoes, use batbats, and healing salves in combat, I can't hold a potato out infront of my unarmored beefalo while I'm riding it. And Wurt as of her skill tree can now have her merms help farm (as well as take hits for her in combat)

The beefalo cannot be revived unlike a player without the gloom bell, which unfortunately has not reached every version of the game yet, and I don't know about you, but 40 health, 3 grass and a spider gland is a lot easier to get than post-rift caves, even in single player it's not hard to set up a bunnyman farm for beard hair.

[Bumber64]

1 minute ago, ConstantBreeze said:

here's the difference, they can chug potatoes, use batbats, and healing salves in combat, I can't hold a potato out infront of my unarmored beefalo while I'm riding it. And Wurt as of her skill tree can now have her merms help farm (as well as take hits for her in combat)

Aren't you going to end up bucked if you keep getting hit? Beefalo have 1000 health, so you can wait a bit between heals if you're using the speed to avoid hits.

[Sikers]

It's not unique, other, dmage multipliers like Willow's Burning Frenzy, Wigfrid's songs or chilli can also affect beefalos damage, same goes for Volt goat jelly. I really don't understand why people want to get rid of this synergy now, when it's always been part of the game