[Game Update] - 643115

[katarinagray03]

Thank you so much for the changes! I'm glad that we are being heard. I really appreciate the changes that will happen for Wendy and Abigail!

I'm not sure if it's asking for too much but I hope that you guys can have a skill for Wendy to get rid of her less damage effect and Abigail can fight shadow creatures. This will definitely help a lot during spelunking!

I am looking forward to the changes. Especially the 2 slots elixirs and the haunt command for Abigail!

[dish-order man]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Another feature that didn't make it into the build yet, is that when using the Thulecite Slingshot Frame, the special skill-shot should enhance the magic effects of ammo such as Slow-Down and Freeze Rounds, and possibly the Cursed Rounds as well.  It's possible that Pure Brilliance and Pure Horror Rounds will be included depending on how those are implemented.

Hey Jason, I think U should have a look on my suggestion:

In simple terms, you could adjust the Thulecite Slingshot Frame to a weapon that could mix the perks of different rounds without additional work (such as new art or models). It works like the combination tools like smasher、shoevel (which Designed based on my suggestion).

Keep the two slots of the Thulecite Slingshot Frame unchanged, but make the projectiles it fires carry the combined perks of the two loaded rounds, with the power of projectile determined by the higher one of the two rounds.

This would encourage players to explore their preferred combinations of ammunition.   By imposing certain limitations on the rounds loaded into it, its full potential can be unleashed effectively. @Jason

 

[Duds_gd]

Aaah i am so happy to see walter getting the love he deserves:)

About the chances, it would be great to change woby badges on the go

 

[Soul7k]

ok so hear me out:

1. what if the sack had it's own inventory that could be filled with jars and it consumed the souls in the jar to add planar damage or healing to hits.
2. what if when soul jars on the floor leaked they healed around them or did a bit of damage.

[arubaro]

8 hours ago, Jason said:

A Haunt command for Abigail

Great!!

 

8 hours ago, Jason said:

• The Flower Shroud currently redirects Wendy's damage onto Abigail. It will change so that Abigail will benefit from Wendy's head gear armor instead. 

The current version of the dress was intended to increase Wendy's appeal to players who don't like fighting but want to survive if they get caught. In truth there are a lot of armors already to help Wendy stay alive and there were many issues with the current design yet to be solved. So we agreed to change it to help Abigail have more durability in combat instead

I think that linking their health was more fitting, original and opened a funnier gameplay.

Healing wendy making abi be healed aswell can perform the same result but with a less flat and unfitting gameplay

8 hours ago, Jason said:

Abigail's Planar Defense for her alignment skills has gone up

Also makes this unnecessary since she is already benefiting from Wendy's armor...

[_mylilsunshine_]

A bit disappointed with how little has changed for Walter in this build, but having high hopes that he will get the attention he deserves once the other two are finished. I understand that they are vastly more popular and handling them terribly will bring bad press. I will echo some of the suggestions from the community here in the hope that you will see them @Jason:
- The Slingshot can use some more upgrades. A midgame material for the Grip, endgame material for the Band, and maybe rework/buff the Sticky Grip in some way. The change in material from the Pig Skin Band to the Cat Band is really negligible, why would I ever craft the former when I could just kill some cats and visit the Marsh race war on day 1? There should be a significant and satisfactory change (in the effect and the materials used) between upgrade stages. While the stats given by the upgrade are surprisingly substantial (17% fire rate (estimated by Jakey) for the Void Grip seems like nothing, but it's good), they can still be better.

- The ammo perks can be bundled together, as currently they're just a point sink, even more so than Woby's branch. Dreadstone is extremely underwhelming, Shockscrap is in the same boat, but much costlier. Stinger Rounds could've been in the base kit, as Moon Glass is easily amassable, even more so with the ProjPro 2 perk. Gunpowder feels like it could've been AoE, an upgrade over Moon Glass, or have a special effect (like more significant staggering). Honey Round is cute but not really combat-feasible before the Thulecite Frame.

- On the topic of Projectile Pro perks, while I acknowledge that 40 is simply too good, I do hope you guys also consider that there are single-player and multiplayer to balance. Too little ammo crafted, time sink for the former, and resource sink for the latter. I understand that you already have a plan to fine-tune the numbers, I just wish it wouldn't be too underwhelming and annoying.

46 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Also if they are going to lower the production amount of rounds, we need a way to carry many different types of damage rounds to make up for it. If Wendy can get a potion storage, Walter can get a pellet belt to store all his rounds.

- Woby's training could be more streamlined, more intuitive, and simply better to the point of worth doing. Right now it is a bit confusing how to understand basically anything related to training. Datamining/wiki checking shouldn't feel mandatory when playing the game. Maybe you could implement a Canine Training Manual, or let Walter watch Cesar Millan the dog trainer. Fetch is basically useless, Dig is RNG in the training and in the loot, Bravery training is insanely (!) difficult and deadly. And 4/4 Badge point is too little for how little the skills provide.

- The Alignment perks are really, truly, uncreative and slobby. Really? One (01) new ammo? That basically does the same thing but slightly better as the other 02 ammos (Honey & Slow-down)? With how uninspiring and flavorless they are, it leads to my next point:

• Walter is NOT just his Slingshot and Woby. You gave him so many lore and personality-wise perks, like bee allergy, tree lover, camper, boy scout, camp story, fearlessness, uninterested in fashion, etc. Why throw it all away when designing his tree? Nothing about his skill tree has a WOW! factor, or shows that the Devs care about the character (personality-wise). He's not a combat character, or a meta character. He has his niche as a scout and he could lean into it a bit more.

- Woby could use some adjustment to her max hunger and hunger drain if you intend for her to be a calvary (Agility, Brave, and Support Training). There is still her inventory to consider. And when/if you bundle the ammo perks together, please give Walter something unique and awe-inspiring. Thank you, and I greatly appreciate everyone's effort! 

Edited November 23, 2024 by _mylilsunshine_

[Deniak]

Can we get a shadow alternative for the kanpsack + shadow reaper? just like Wormwood got his "Brambleshade Armor". I like the idea of carrying a tool that can make item recollection more easy, but if you also need the shadow reaper for damage and the affinity its just more inventory slots used, i wish we can craft a weapon/tool using both the shadow reaper and the knapsack.

[AliceMagtron]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

The current version of the dress was intended to increase Wendy's appeal to players who don't like fighting but want to survive if they get caught. In truth there are a lot of armors already to help Wendy stay alive and there were many issues with the current design yet to be solved. So we agreed to change it to help Abigail have more durability in combat instead.

u say that the dress is for ppl who dont like fighting, but a dress need 20 dark petals to make, which means either u need to loss 100 sansity to make a dress, or u gonna die once to make it. and that means u push them half way to the horror creatures, how do u explain and fix that？Why u so persistent in evil petals? There should be more options. the most ez one, just get a beefalo, u dont even need to fully tame it. and which gives u 1k hp to survive. and i do think u underestimate sisturn and abi's flower item, u can let player to fill the sisturn with more kinds of items to get different buff, that definitely could work much well than that dress. or upgrade abi's flower with new craft item to change abi to moon/shadow form instead of murdering small animals or have 10 days to wait for new moon.

9 hours ago, Jason said:

• Strong Brew skills will be compressed into two slots and a new skill added to craft an Elixir carrying container.
• The Flower Shroud currently redirects Wendy's damage onto Abigail. It will change so that Abigail will benefit from Wendy's head gear armor instead. 

the main problem is, since only one potion can effect abi at the same time, half of them have no competitiveness, expecially u add more hp regen for abi, which makes revenant restorative much worthless, how do u fix this problem? pls dont increase duration in Strong Brew skills, thats only waste extra duration. i suggest u to improve potions efficiency and let multiple potion effect at the same time.

also could u pls explain why u design that 3 skills for abi? cause the one to break away hate is kinda same with take abi back. scare animals for 1s is totally useless, and dash, i dont understand whats it for? to dodge atk? then why so long cool down and all 3 share this cool down?

and to the last, i do think u didnt understand why so many wendy player is so angry of this patch. what they want is not high value for abi or wendy, but its the extension cord of her potion, sisturn, abigail. but what u do is keep pushing your evil petal and grave skills, just like u push beefalo line to wigfrid player, which was not in her origin skill. and now u see the result. thats just like SBI keep pushing LGBT to Players group Who never want it, thats so ridicurlous. i dont want the same thing happens on wendy again.  

Edited November 23, 2024 by AliceMagtron

[Braigtx5]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

new skill added to craft an Elixir carrying container.

That sounds good, like Wortox soul jar.

I think Walter need a rounds container too, because using space in inventory or Woby only for ammo is kinda annoying.

Btw great update 

[LuneCaptor]

This is the first time I see patch notes including such insight into the design and balance processes. This was a very welcome surprise, thank you, Klei, keep these up!

[Chubbylicious]

Hey Klei, I hope you all are doing well! Wortox is my main for a long time now and I was doing a quick search in the forums to see what my fellow player thought about it`s skilltree. To be sincere, the tree is almost perfect now, the only tweaks I would suggest is:

• The knabsack has storage (4 slots would be perfect) and these are able to hold souls. So you can use it as a alternative for the soul jars in the early game, and it would make sense with the krampus lore thinghy, since the knabsack would turn into a Wortox version of the krampus sack. My idea is making it work like the Battle Call Canister or the Polar Bearger Bin, something that you need to open to acess the extra storage, so the UI shouldn't feel cramped.
• THE ABILITY TO TELEPORT WITH HEAVY ITEMS. Like, teleportation is Wortox's entire gimmick. It's so unfair that Wanda, a character that isn't as heavily reliant on it can do it and Wortox can't. This or maybe switching the reviving heart part of it's nice branch for a group TP thingy would be really cool.

And that is it! I hope you all keep doing the great work you're doing and have a merry end of the year @Jason

Edited November 23, 2024 by Chubbylicious
I forgot to pin Jason ;n;

[NINA1917]

I hope the reduced damage the armor does to Abigail connects with Wendy's sanity. This seems to be more in line with Wendy's identity as a wizard, and the current change has greatly improved Abigail's tanking ability, so much so that it is a bit exaggerated. Hope it can be balanced at the expense of san

Just now, NINA1917 said:

I hope the reduced damage the armor does to Abigail connects with Wendy's sanity. This seems to be more in line with Wendy's identity as a wizard, and the current change has greatly improved Abigail's tanking ability, so much so that it is a bit exaggerated. Hope it can be balanced at the expense of san

 I mean is that on the basis of consuming the helmet, the damage reduction value is related to Wendy's san, which reduces the damage and brings san penalty at the same time.

[Mr Giggio]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

The Neutral Pan Flute perks are a bit underwhelming when in game due to the random factor about it. It was created to try to flow with Wortox's more care free nature of doing things in the moment as a side bonus for a strong item in the game. In practice this feels like it punishes for not using it so it will be looked over to make that feel better and more of a competitor to the other skills. In the mean time the buff duration will be increased so the down time from not using it will be reduced. The side prongs for the Pan Flute have their situational uses but lack purpose for certain players who use the Pan Flute for different purposes. We will be looking into making these perks have more depth to them or scrap them for other Neutral related goodies.

Hello @Jason, once u guys looking for concept to have new skills instead, here some sugestions:

> Life Path
Essence Vision - Wortox can see allies Hp

Soul Transfusion I - Wortox can heal eye of mask
Soul Transfusion II - Wortox can heal shield of terror 
Soul Transfusion III - Wortox can heal chester and tamed beefalo

> Sneak Path
Backstab  I -  The next hit dealt in the enemies back after soul hoping has a 50% damage bonus
Backstab II - The next hit dealt in the enemies back after soul hoping has a 100% damage bonus
Backstab III - The next hit dealt in the enemies back after soul hoping has a 150% damage bonus

> Krampus path:
Stealing from the stealer I - 2% extra chance of a Krampus sack after Killin Krampus
Stealing from the stealer II - 3% extra chance of a Krampus sack after Killin Krampus
Stealing from the stealer III - 5% extra chance of a Krampus sack after Killin Krampus

Edited November 23, 2024 by Mr Giggio

[Kacpert25]

11 hours ago, Jason said:

So skills involving the Knabsack have been streamlined to not need it as a catalyst and the Knabsack has been brought to a more early to mid game state as an alternative.

Currently, even as an alternative in early/mid game, knabsack does not work well.

Why would I use this item to fill my eq with three soul jars holding 100 souls when I can just make a ham bat?

I sincerely hope that something will change regarding the knabsack so that it will no longer be a weapon to be abandoned and forgotten.

[RockOnTable]

I’ve been playing Walter for this update and these changes are exactly what I wanted to hear! I really appreciate the woby direction.

[Echsrick]

am i realy the only one that dont want the knapsack to be used as a weapon but instead as a special tool? bugnet+ that is able to nap things never before and even certain objects like suspicous marble, or baby beefalos

[Dingle]

15 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

am i realy the only one that dont want the knapsack to be used as a weapon but instead as a special tool? bugnet+ that is able to nap things never before and even certain objects like suspicous marble, or baby beefalos

I'd like it as both. I mean, it already is because of the aoe pickup function.

I'd love bugnet+ to be added! Would go well with soul piercing, be fun theme wise, and synergize well with others (like helping Wendy get murder fodder)

 

[Hollow soul 3]

9 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

am i realy the only one that dont want the knapsack to be used as a weapon but instead as a special tool? bugnet+ that is able to nap things never before and even certain objects like suspicous marble, or baby beefalos

I agree. The krampus make it look like a magical tool to grab loot, and to teleport away. The kick is their weapon. In the animated short, we also see it as a tool to pick up the baby beef. With the use of souls in the recipe, It would make sense to be able to teleport the critters you grab with it into your inventory.

[Kesia]

I will give a bit of feedback about Wortox cause he's my favorite out of the three! 

The naughty abilities seems to be more solo focused, while the nice seems to be multiplayer focused, I really like this system! You can shape Wortox as a support character or as fighting character as you wish, please don't remove this system, it's so cool and unique!

I just think one of the things Wortox is missing is the naughty side of his skill tree to have more fighting-related abilities, maybe make the Knabsack a stronger weapon. Also, while I was playing, I felt like he's really missing an attack that increases his soul gain, more specifically, some kind of attack that allows him to kill multiple enemies at once. I interpreted his Pan Flute skill as an alternative to this, because you can put multiple enemies to sleep and kill them easier, but yes, the fact that it's random is a bit of an issue, and I'm glad you're fixing that!

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Kesia said:

I just think one of the things Wortox is missing is the naughty side of his skill tree to have more fighting-related abilities, maybe make the Knabsack a stronger weapon. Also, while I was playing, I felt like he's really missing an attack that increases his soul gain, more specifically, some kind of attack that allows him to kill multiple enemies at once. I interpreted his Pan Flute skill as an alternative to this, because you can put multiple enemies to sleep and kill them easier, but yes, the fact that it's random is a bit of an issue, and I'm glad you're fixing that!

I've been using Decoy 3, it does 51 aoe damage. Then once soul pierce starts going, you're set for nuking groups.

Alternatively if you want to be stylish, you can inventory murder a stack of 4-5 butterflies or bees to get your soul pierce kill cascade going. Less if you have soul pierce 2.

[ApoIIo]

5 hours ago, Soul7k said:

ok so hear me out:

1. what if the sack had it's own inventory that could be filled with jars and it consumed the souls in the jar to add planar damage or healing to hits.
2. what if when soul jars on the floor leaked they healed around them or did a bit of damage.

Personally I want that diaper looking thing dead by lategame so I can thrive as a cool reaper, we should expand on the scythe instead.
...Also, the second suggestion I find a little underwhelming and strange, they already leak at a very slow rate so it wouldn't have practical uses... Unless you could share them with other players and they can slooooowly heal via souls when you're not there? 
But that sounds like more of a nice side perk.

Oh, maybe the knapsack could be repurposed into some sort of soul lantern? Truthfully I've never been big on it doubling as a weapon.

[Hollow soul 3]

8 hours ago, wunaoli said:

Let Abigail possess some dead animal or plant, like the Shadow Weaver, etc？

That should be her lunar affinity 

[Cyber_Joueur]

Very good skill trees, thanks you Klei for your fantastic work and for listening to our feedback. I have a few suggestions to improve Wortox's skill tree (the one I’ve tested the most so far):

- Could the souls with soul pierce II have a slight homing effect and be chainable like the Brightshade Staff to take advantage of their damage? The souls would have a limit before returning to Wortox, either based on the number of entities hit or the distance from Wortox. The current iteration is only useful with preparation and occurs quite rarely in the game, except with a significant horde of enemies. I think this would allow this feature to shine and make Wortox stand out from other characters.

- I'm not too fond of the appearance of his weapon. In my opinion, a sack similar to Krampus's, with similar animations, would be more interesting and better convey the idea of a greedy Wortox.

The execution of his skill tree is otherwise overall very well done.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Kesia said:

I will give a bit of feedback about Wortox cause he's my favorite out of the three! 

The naughty abilities seems to be more solo focused, while the nice seems to be multiplayer focused, I really like this system! You can shape Wortox as a support character or as fighting character as you wish, please don't remove this system, it's so cool and unique!

I just think one of the things Wortox is missing is the naughty side of his skill tree to have more fighting-related abilities, maybe make the Knabsack a stronger weapon. Also, while I was playing, I felt like he's really missing an attack that increases his soul gain, more specifically, some kind of attack that allows him to kill multiple enemies at once. I interpreted his Pan Flute skill as an alternative to this, because you can put multiple enemies to sleep and kill them easier, but yes, the fact that it's random is a bit of an issue, and I'm glad you're fixing that!

For me is kinda the opposite. Dont like to have such number of MP focused perks in one branch

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

For me is kinda the opposite. Dont like to have such number of MP focused perks in one branch

I like it. And in Nice, the only strictly MP branch is Lifegiver (twintailed heart branch).

Maybe one more perk in Nice that is not MP focused would be good. I was trying to make a 9/6 Nice aligned solo build (for extra self healing and sanity management), but that does force you to get the useless for soloing Lifegiver I.

That, or make neutral perks help you reach alignment easier, somehow?