Please redo Wendy's skill tree.

[gugakuta]

It seems the person who designed Wendy’s skill tree has never played Wendy and doesn’t know what she needs.

[arubaro]

What does she "needs" that isnt in the skill tree already?

It seems the person who wrote this topic has never gave productive feedback and doesn't know how to provide it

[Sacco]

Please give contructive criticism. It's not the first post which i see after the beta which just says "wendy skill bad ):!!!11!!1111!!!1!!"

I understand wendy is a very played character, but please be mindful of what you write

edit: thanks Op for clarifying his opinione.

[gugakuta]

1.Wendy often needs to ensure Abigail doesn't die during battles, but the skill tree allows Abigail to take damage, which is quite unreasonable.

2.Wendy's moon branch skill forces Abigail to only perform dash attacks every 5 seconds, but the vulnerability effect provided by Abigail lasts only about 2 seconds, which is a complete detriment. Meanwhile, the potion that increases the vulnerability duration is placed in the shadow branch.

[Cheggf]

What do you even mean by this?

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, Sacco said:

Please give contructive criticism. It's not the first post which i see after the beta which just says "wendy skill bad ):!!!11!!1111!!!1!!"

I understand wendy is a very played character, but please be mindful of what you write

saying "wendy skill is bad" without pointing out exactly what's bad about it because of language barrier is not a bad thing to do. The op is just expressing their feelings about the skill tree.
And btw I agree completely, her skill tree sound soooo underwhelming, I was hoping for so so much more.

[SilverSpoon]

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

It seems the person who wrote this topic has never gave productive feedback and doesn't know how to provide it

6 minutes ago, Sacco said:

just says "wendy skill bad ):!!!11!!1111!!!1!!"

How productive and constructive

[gugakuta]

3.I don't understand the actual purpose of the shadow branch skill that deals 80 damage for each creature killed; it's cumbersome to use and will lower Wendy's DPS.

 

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What does the designer think Wendy is? A little girl landscaping in the graveyard?

[SilverSpoon]

@gugakuta

You can edit the content in a post that has already been posted by clicking "..." → "Edit" in the upper right corner of the post.

I recommend that you list your points on Wendy's skill tree in your first post.

 

[gugakuta]

In Don't Starve, combat is a very important aspect, but Wendy hardly gains any combat-related improvements from her skill tree, and her quality of life has not noticeably improved. Many skills in the skill tree have inconsistent logic, and I can't imagine how you designed a skill tree of this quality.

[WenericMember]

There's a difference between "balance better" and "redo from the ground up."

This is my current opinion on Wendy's Skill tree. There's a few other Perks I'd like, such as Haunt, a potion belt, multi potions and  improved light radius.

Red is Unsalvagable, Orange is weak/needs a rework, green is solid, blue is I love. I'd say the only skills that are designed without an understanding of Wendy are the Potions & Pipspook Quest 2. Admittedly, a fair number of her skills are underpowered, but I don't think its anything particularly to do with design. I'd say

• Add a couple of additional perks I listed above
• Rework the potion skills
• Buff the Shadow Alignment & Dark Petals Skills

And I'd say its a pretty good skill tree.

8 minutes ago, gugakuta said:

What does the designer think Wendy is? A little girl landscaping in the graveyard?

I mean... Objectively... Yes? Her two key characteristics is her Love for her sister and her obsession with the dead. Focusing more on the graveyard aspect is good because her base kit was almost exclusively Abigail.

8 minutes ago, gugakuta said:

In Don't Starve, combat is a very important aspect, but Wendy hardly gains any combat-related improvements from her skill tree, and her quality of life has not noticeably improved. Many skills in the skill tree have inconsistent logic, and I can't imagine how you designed a skill tree of this quality.

The skill tree's actually pretty well designed to feed back into itself. The grave skils produce evil flowers, used in the dark Petals skills & nightmare fuel, as well as spawning pipspooks for the pipspook quest skills.

Wendy gets better control over Abigail via the Team Spirit Skills, while the Blessed Sisturn is just general QOL. Shadow alignments underpowered and potion duration has no real use, but that's about it.

[gugakuta]

9 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

@gugakuta

您可以通过单击“...”来编辑已发布的帖子中的内容。→帖子右上角的“编辑”。

我建议你在第一篇文章中列出你在 Wendy 的技能树上的观点。

 

Sorry, this is my first time using the Klei forums, and I'm not very familiar with it yet. I hope I expressed my meaning clearly.

6 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

There's a difference between "balance better" and "redo from the ground up."

This is my current opinion on Wendy's Skill tree. There's a few other Perks I'd like, such as Haunt, a potion belt, multi potions and  improved light radius.

Red is Unsalvagable, Orange is weak/needs a rework, green is solid, blue is I love. I'd say the only skills that are designed without an understanding of Wendy are the Potions & Pipspook Quest 2. Admittedly, a fair number of her skills are underpowered, but I don't think its anything particularly to do with design. I'd say

• Add a couple of additional perks I listed above
• Rework the potion skills
• Buff the Shadow Alignment & Dark Petals Skills

And I'd say its a pretty good skill tree.

I mean... Objectively... Yes? Her two key characteristics is her Love for her sister and her obsession with the dead. Focusing more on the graveyard aspect is good because her base kit was almost exclusively Abigail.

The skill tree's actually pretty well designed to feed back into itself. The grave skils produce evil flowers, used in the dark Petals skills & nightmare fuel, as well as spawning pipspooks for the pipspook quest skills.

Wendy gets better control over Abigail via the Team Spirit Skills, while the Blessed Sisturn is just general QOL. Shadow alignments underpowered and potion duration has no real use, but that's about it.

Sorry, my native language is not English, so there may be some issues in my expression.

I agree “There's a difference between "balance better" and "redo from the ground up.”

I think some skills need balancing, while others need to be completely reworked.

[SilverSpoon]

6 minutes ago, gugakuta said:

Sorry, this is my first time using the Klei forums, and I'm not very familiar with it yet. I hope I expressed my meaning clearly.

由于日语比英语更接近中文，我将尝试使用Google翻译从日语翻译。
您可以通过点击帖子右上角的“...”→“编辑”来编辑已发布的帖子内容。
我们建议您在本页的第一篇文章中写下您的所有意见，而不是多次发表您的意见。

中国語は英語よりも日本語のほうが近いため、Google翻訳ですが、日本語からの翻訳を試してみます。
投稿の右上にある「…」→「編集」をクリックすることで、すでに投稿した投稿の内容を編集することができます。
あなたの意見を分けて何度も投稿するのではなく、このページの一番最初の投稿にあなたの意見をすべて書き込むことをお勧めします。

Since Japanese is closer to Chinese than English, I will try translating from Japanese using Google Translate.
You can edit the content of a post you have already posted by clicking "..." → "Edit" in the top right of the post.
I recommend that you write all of your opinions in the very first post on this page, rather than posting multiple times with separate  your opinions.

[WenericMember]

9 minutes ago, gugakuta said:

Sorry, this is my first time using the Klei forums, and I'm not very familiar with it yet. I hope I expressed my meaning clearly.

Sorry, my native language is not English, so there may be some issues in my expression.

I agree “There's a difference between "balance better" and "redo from the ground up.”

I think some skills need balancing, while others need to be completely reworked.

Fair enough. Typically "Redo" (which you used in your title) means start over, which probably got lost in translation.

Also "It seems the person who designed Wendy’s skill tree has never played Wendy and doesn’t know what she needs." feels dismissive too, but I guess that's also an issue with translation.

[shengrufuyou]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

由于日语比英语更接近中文，我将尝试使用Google翻译日语从翻译。
您可以通过点击我们右上角的“...”→“编辑”来编辑已发布的帖子内容。
建议您在本页的第一篇文章中写下您的所有意见，而不是多次发表您的意见。

中国语は英语よりも日本语のほうが近いため、Google翻訳ですが、日本语からの翻訳を试してみます。
投稿の右上にある「…」→「编集」をクritikkuすることで、すでに投稿した稿投の内容を编集することができます。
あなたの意见を分けて何度も投稿するのではなく、このページの最初的投稿にあなたの意见をすべて书き込むことをお勧めします。

由于日语比英语更接近中文，我将尝试使用谷歌翻译从日语翻译。
您可以通过点击帖子右上角的“...”→“编辑”来编辑已发布帖子的内容。
我建议您在本页面的第一篇帖子中写下您的所有观点，而不是多次发布单独的观点。

This is their job, if they do it badly they will be scolded.

[robberrice]

An up named "快乐的蜥蜴已经安息" from bilibili designs much better in his video about Wendy's skill tree.

[Peasant]

6 hours ago, Sacco said:

Please give contructive criticism. It's not the first post which i see after the beta which just says "wendy skill bad ):!!!11!!1111!!!1!!"

I understand wendy is a very played character, but please be mindful of what you write

edit: thanks Op for clarifying his opinione.

Have you considered that the reason why people keeps simply posting "wendy skill bad ):!!!11!!1111!!!1!!" is because her skilltree is so lame to a point that you dont even need to bother which point exactly people dislike?

Just to clearify, I myself think that though possessing several useful points, windy's skilltree is if looked wholy an undoubted failure

[Bumber64]

1 hour ago, YXukun said:

Have you considered that the reason why people keeps simply posting "wendy skill bad ):!!!11!!1111!!!1!!" is because her skilltree is so lame to a point that you dont even need to bother which point exactly people dislike?

Don't expect to receive the fixes you never suggest. Unconstructive criticism is easily ignored.

[Cruvimaster]

She is already the most used character in the game.

Is she really that bad?
 

 

[Cheggf]

7 hours ago, Swiyss said:

saying "wendy skill is bad" without pointing out exactly what's bad about it because of language barrier is not a bad thing to do.

Yes it is. 

[MarkStein]

Imo Wendy skilltree pretty good and i like it.
Flower armor very strong and change rules of Wendy usual gameplay (like beefalo perks change Wigfrid from tank to support character).
Also it's interesting that for getting dark flowers and placing new graves Wendy should do some sacrifices (even herself). That works really good with her quotes about death.

Elixirs upgrades... it's okay. Not good, not bad. 
Urn upgrades are cool, i wanted something like this.

[isilvers]

On 11/22/2024 at 4:29 PM, Swiyss said:

saying "wendy skill is bad" without pointing out exactly what's bad about it because of language barrier is not a bad thing to do. The op is just expressing their feelings about the skill tree.
And btw I agree completely, her skill tree sound soooo underwhelming, I was hoping for so so much more.

wendy's skill tree met expectations,in't that enough

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

10小时前，isilvers说：

温迪的技能树符合预期，这还不够吗

符合谁的预期了？你玩过温蒂吗？你才是那个黑子是吧？

[ZeRoboButler]

On 11/22/2024 at 3:17 AM, shengrufuyou said:

This is their job, if they do it badly they will be scolded.

yeah... i'm not sure people are more inclined to change something due to being yelled at rather than accurate explanation as to why something isn't good or effective. 

kinda goes like this... 

perk is not received well? consideration of adjustment based on dev decision, they try to fit a theme and decide if they did what they wanted. 

obviously the player base is considered in this, but it is usually about what they are happy to deliver, again this is a beta so nothing is truly final. Just chill out, and perhaps ease up on the aggression.

I would be upset if I felt my character was not delivered upon thematically or wasn't satisfying to play with, but try to find good solutions and effective ways of conveying that argument. Believe me when my characters roll around, I will be very vocal, but not a tornado of unhelpful statements.  

[MarcoReverie]

On 11/22/2024 at 2:47 AM, WenericMember said:

There's a difference between "balance better" and "redo from the ground up."

This is my current opinion on Wendy's Skill tree. There's a few other Perks I'd like, such as Haunt, a potion belt, multi potions and  improved light radius.

Red is Unsalvagable, Orange is weak/needs a rework, green is solid, blue is I love. I'd say the only skills that are designed without an understanding of Wendy are the Potions & Pipspook Quest 2. Admittedly, a fair number of her skills are underpowered, but I don't think its anything particularly to do with design. I'd say

• Add a couple of additional perks I listed above
• Rework the potion skills
• Buff the Shadow Alignment & Dark Petals Skills

And I'd say its a pretty good skill tree.

I mean... Objectively... Yes? Her two key characteristics is her Love for her sister and her obsession with the dead. Focusing more on the graveyard aspect is good because her base kit was almost exclusively Abigail.

The skill tree's actually pretty well designed to feed back into itself. The grave skils produce evil flowers, used in the dark Petals skills & nightmare fuel, as well as spawning pipspooks for the pipspook quest skills.

Wendy gets better control over Abigail via the Team Spirit Skills, while the Blessed Sisturn is just general QOL. Shadow alignments underpowered and potion duration has no real use, but that's about it.

First of all, I’m happy Wendy finally get her skill tree.

But, I’am agree that this need to be balance better. Regarding some ideas I already shared in this forum, and attending to some great advices from @WenericMember, I suggest this:

 

GRAVES

The two initial skills related to graves are good, but the last one could be enhanced adding an upgrade use for telltale heart, like burying it in a special grave crafted by Wendy to unlock a new way for resurrection. Besides, maybe a new use for the dug up graves to make them renewable. Any suggestions:

1.  Grave keeper. Wendy can bury Bone Shards in open graves on new moon to make them renewable on the next new moon or after this. The renewable resources will have the already setting chance and randomness for graves.
2. Green burial. Craft a green grave site able for resurrection to any character. Requires a telltale heart bury inside by one player. Resurrection is activated by haunting the green grave. Only for one use. These graves will spawn a randomized number of Evil Flowers growing near them.

• Materials: Living Logs, Mourning Glories, Shovel.
• Resources after use. Log, Nightmare fuel.

 DARK PETALS

About dark petals, I strongly believe that this skill must exploit the Wendy’s ectoherbology knowledge. For this, I suggest new potions based on Wendy’s interaction with plants and using dark petals or nightmare fuel as a main ingredient. Those potions should be only for survivors use. Also, maybe have a skill related to magic herbology. 

1. Dark soul. Pick or be near to Evil flowers does not lose Wendy’s sanity. Wendy can turn petals to dark petals (5 health cost) because “they are painted with the colors of her soul”.
2. Magic herbology. Unlock known tier 1 magic recipes related with plants. Wendy can prototype nightmare fuel from dark petals and the shadow manipulator with out the prestihatitator.
3. Ectoherbology lab. Unlock new potions (for Wendy and other player’s use) created from DST plants based on Wendy examining. Some suggestions: 
   1. Joy potion. Petals, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = +15 Sanity
   2. Artic potion. Foliage, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = Temporarily reduce overheating.
   3. Safety potion. Succulent, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = +30 Health, +15 Sanity
   4. Burning potion. Light Bulb, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = Temporarily reduce frezzing.
   5. Fleeting potion. Lichen, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = Temporarily increase speed.
   6. Knives potion. CactusFlower, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = Temporarily increase damage 10%.
   7. Impermanent potion. Lune tree blossom, Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Rocks = Reduce enlightened.
   8. Prickly potion. Use Nightmare fuel over a Rose to create a potion for temporary shield.

 

VENGEFUL GHOST

I love these skills, but I think those needs a next level, maybe based on a new elixir created by Wendy that can be used only on ghost characters (not for Abigail) to activate and enhance the vengeful ghost skill. My suggestions:

1. Combat ghost. Craft an Elixir to convert a Ghost character into a combat Ghost (same combat stats of a ghost MOB) controlled by the player for 2 min. Just for one use per dead. Materials: Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Cactus Flesh, Mourning Glory.
2. Army ghost. Enhance the Combat ghost elixir with doubles of the combat stats of a ghost MOB an the duration effect (4 min). Just for one use per dead. Materials: Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Cactus Flesh, Mourning Glories.

 

STRONG BREW

I believe it is enough with just one skill that duplicate the temporary effect, and adding new skills to craft new ghostly elixirs with elemental effects (fire, ice, lightning, shadow, bright). Furthermore, I think it is a good idea to have 2 elixirs active on Abigail.

1.  Twinxirs. Abigail can use 2 elixirs.
2. Elemental elixirs. Unlock new elixirs for Abigail with temporary elemental efects. Their effects are activated in the foes by attacking Abigail. Some suggestions:
   1. Incinerate corpse. Burn the foes. Mourning Glory x3, Red Gem x1.
   2. Fear Freezing. Freez the foes. Mourning Glory x3, Blue Gem x1.
   3. Spectral scintillation. Electrocute the foes (by lightning strikes). Mourning Glory x3, Volt Goat Horn x1.
   4. Shadow Hunter. Abigail can fight against shadows temporary. Mourning Glory x3, Hound’s tooth x1.
   5. Bright Guardian. Abigail can fight against Gestalts temporary. Mourning Glory x3, Glow Berry x1.

 

PIPSPOOK QUEST

Also, 2 skills related to pipspooks are enough. Maybe merging the Pipspook quest I and II on one could be a solution. Not sure about this, but maybe a third skill to summoning a pipspook just to satisfy the demand for mourning glories required by the new craft objets. 

1. Pipspook calling. Craft a flower to summon (cost of 15 sanity) a pipspook. Requires to be near a Headstone.
   •  Nightmare fuel/dark petals, Mourning Glories, a Butterfly.

 

TEAM SPIRIT

Team spirit have great skills, and I also believe the Dark Petals II skill should be in this branch. But, the Team Spirit III can be enhanced by activating the haunt skill on Abigail. Haunting is a useful skill that also includes scare things and panicking. Besides, maybe a new skill for exploring through Abigail. 

1. Haunting. Abigail can haunt objets / MOBS.
2. Medium sister. An astral projection from Wendy to Abigail. Abigail can be controlled in vanishing mode just to fly around while Wendy stays immobilized. The link will break if Wendy is attacked and Abigail will return to her flower.

 

BLESSED SISTURN

The blessed sisturn skills are solid, but I am just feeling like adding to the third skill a healing (AOE) aura able for the survivors.

1. Everlasting light. Sisturn emits light and an AOE healing aura (+5/min) when full.

 

 LUNAR AND SHADOW ALIGNED

Maybe I don’t have enough experience on lunar and shadow skills, but I insist on exploit Wendy’s ectoherbology skills. Maybe adding new potions for the survivors to buff planar damage (lunar/shadow). On the other hand, Abigail could have inherent skills on lunar and shadow aligned, like a freezing aura to slowing foes and a terror aura to produce panic on foes while attacking, respectively.

1.  Night terror: Wendy can craft a new potion that will give its user (Wendy or another character) a temporary 30% extra damage agains Gestalts o lunar aligned creatures.
   • Materials. Pure terror, Dark petals, Empty bottle.
2.  Shadow Abigail. Can fight against Gestalts. Abigail attunes with the shadows and earns some Planar Defense and gives a Terror aura that produce panic on foes when attacking.
3.  Bright cold: Wendy can craft a new potion that will give its user (Wendy or another character) a temporary 30% extra damage agains Shadow creatures.
   • Materials. Pure Brilliance, Lune Tree Blossom, Empty bottle.
4.  Lunar Abigail. Can fight against Shadows. Abigail attunes with lunar energies and earns some Planar Defense and gives a freezing aura, that slowing foes when attacking.

 

I'm happy to share this and help to Wendy's skill tree.

Marco from México.