The panflute skills are just kind of bad?

[Hollow soul 3]

I don't really think the free souls are worth it, with the faster farming methods and increased capacity. With that being said, now if there were any kind of better crafting options, it would have to take a ton of souls to craft.

[Dingle]

I'd really like Cloudy Carmine to get replaced with anything else, really.

Anything else.

The idea I had near start of beta was being able to craft something like Dripple Pipes for an insight point. Make a brief rain or stop current rain.

[crushcircuit]

i really enjoy all of the pan flute perks and think theyre currently in an extremely good spot personally. if youre having issues getting your hands on the pan flute in a pub (which are known to be fickle and wild for things like this) i think that is different than the perk just being bad. if you can't get the pan flute then don't pick the perks made for the pan flute. theyre pretty easy to skip if you're in that situation.

also, you guys resurrected a thread from literally day 1 of the beta. the op was talking about the launch version of the perks, which have been basically completely changed and make the thread currently irrelevant :'D

On 11/22/2024 at 3:06 AM, Maxil20 said:

Wortox directly admits the pan flute is his (it’s shown in his verdant set, even!), so Wortox having skills befitting to it and being the only non-alignment skills that are “neutral” fit perfectly for him. The only problem is the skills are situational/underpowered (I would personally merge the increased sleep + special no aggro effect into one skill and make the “free” pan flute use permanent when you get it).

for instance, this suggestion from this very thread was already implemented several updates ago.

i don't think wortox needs his own worse version of the pan flute as a craft. i really like that the pan flute can actually see consistent use outside of the dragonfly fight now, i think it is very cool ^_^

[ColdHeaven]

wait i had no idea it was from november

[Echsrick]

i mean even if it was from back then...the panflute skills still are feeling more like....well....i dont know not too worth the investmend? like sure, gettin some souls on play is a nice bonus but like....thinkin about it, do you realy need it? given how many souls you could possible carry thanks to the soul jars? easy just farming them for a day or 2 in safer areas before goin down into the ruins with like 60 souls

[crushcircuit]

16 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i mean even if it was from back then...the panflute skills still are feeling more like....well....i dont know not too worth the investmend? like sure, gettin some souls on play is a nice bonus but like....thinkin about it, do you realy need it? given how many souls you could possible carry thanks to the soul jars? easy just farming them for a day or 2 in safer areas before goin down into the ruins with like 60 souls

i don't want his entire skilltree to be balanced around an optional skill. i do not use soul jars, i would like to keep my alternatives.

i find the perk useful to have on-the-go souls, plus it's just plain nice to have. it also stacks with soul pierce. i just think it's nice for my playstyle - maybe it's not for yours.

[IAmAFurrz]

15 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i mean even if it was from back then...the panflute skills still are feeling more like....well....i dont know not too worth the investmend? like sure, gettin some souls on play is a nice bonus but like....thinkin about it, do you realy need it? given how many souls you could possible carry thanks to the soul jars?

early souls are good even without the free uses, if you plan on rushing stuff (heavily used in fw rush by amesralii). overall i use it often, 6 souls every now and then, a small sanity boost, is great because it can be used even in soul-deprived areas like ruins, or on the ocean. not to mention just free uses are nice enough that i can stomach it for the 6 soul skill (biiiig plus on them being counted for skill locks on nice/naughty sides)

18 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

 given how many souls you could possible carry thanks to the soul jars? easy just farming them for a day or 2 in safer areas before goin down into the ruins with like 60 souls

i often use pan as i rush stuff without jars, theyre not that essential with a panflute and good management, it doesnt work well with soul pierce but decoy works decently for early aoe

i think the skill tree has good stuff, if ppl can both think some skills are bad and great id say thats more up to playstyle preference/finding out how useful something is to themself (which i feel is a pretty nice balance)

[marshyds]

this post... was made... BEFORE the panflute changes and neutral skill points, i think they're fine now.

[Dingle]

8 hours ago, marshyds said:

this post... was made... BEFORE the panflute changes and neutral skill points, i think they're fine now.

I'm mostly confused that people like Cloudy Carmine. What do you use it for? Any good stories about the best uses for it?

[Nikki Darks]

I honestly love all 3 panflute skills. 

6 free souls a day is great.

Full deaggro after using a panflute (mobs won't fight back for a couple of seconds after waking up even if you hit them) is great.

Longer sleep duration is okay.

Overall love the skills and always put points into all 3.

[Dingle]

3 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

Full deaggro after using a panflute (mobs won't fight back for a couple of seconds after waking up even if you hit them) is great.

Longer sleep duration is okay.

That sounds really bad to me, as a use for a full insight point.

I'll check it out again soon and give it another chance, after I'm back on Wortox playthroughs.

[crushcircuit]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

That sounds really bad to me, as a use for a full insight point.

I'll check it out again soon and give it another chance, after I'm back on Wortox playthroughs.

i do also use cloudy carmen and i find it situationally helpful (still dealing with that spider queen issue...) but i wouldn't mind seeing them replace cloudy carmen personally. i simply had an issue with people saying they should remove all of the pan flute skills entirely.

i think the main issue with cloudy carmen is that it doesn't make things aggro off of allies, meaning that if a mob wakes up from its slumber it will aggro on anybody BUT wortox, which is rather unfair and makes it have much less actual use outside of solo situations (bad, for a game called don't starve together). if they made it so that mobs couldnt aggro on wortox or his allies, i think it would be more flexible.

it's also worthwhile to note that it does work on bosses as well. sometimes this lets you get more hits in, sometimes it can just end up interrupting the kiting pattern or make the boss start trying to flee, it depends on how and when you use it.

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, crushcircuit said:

it's also worthwhile to note that it does work on bosses as well. sometimes this lets you get more hits in, sometimes it can just end up interrupting the kiting pattern or make the boss start trying to flee, it depends on how and when you use it.

I heard bad results on bosses, overall. Like it just is annoying on Dragonfly.

Though I do wonder if you could use it to chain stun the Twins of Terror as a group, with a panflute.

[crushcircuit]

Just now, Dingle said:

I heard bad results on bosses, overall. Like it just is annoying on Dragonfly.

Though I do wonder if you could use it to chain stun the Twins of Terror as a group, with a panflute.

i agree, it's incredibly annoying with dragonfly which is the pan flute's main use case, so it would be nice if they could look into that one.

i know it lets you get extra hits in against klaus after dealing with the krampii, but i'm not sure how much that'd actually affect things. i am quite interested in that twins of terror one though... i'd love to see some people test that

[Hollow soul 3]

16 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

 

i think the skill tree has good stuff, if ppl can both think some skills are bad and great id say thats more up to playstyle preference/finding out how useful something is to themself (which i feel is a pretty nice balance)

I think it makes sense if you're skipping the jar, but skipping the jar only makes sense in speed runs. Even if you use it all at once for 66 souls, it makes more sense to just grind a tiny bit every once in a while with his damage perks. I'll still pick up the free use over decoy, but it's mostly to keep myself neutral.

[Dingle]

16 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

I think it makes sense if you're skipping the jar, but skipping the jar only makes sense in speed runs.

Only really one type of speed run: the "get a shadow piece going on day 1 for as early as possible fuelweaver, then quit playing" type.

In any other speedrun, I think you really still want to get a jar, even if its just one.

[Hollow soul 3]

3 hours ago, Dingle said:

Only really one type of speed run: the "get a shadow piece going on day 1 for as early as possible fuelweaver, then quit playing" type.

In any other speedrun, I think you really still want to get a jar, even if its just one.

That's it really. Kind of sounds like in most situations, it's still not good enough to grab when considering the other options.

[Mike23Ua]

On 12/31/2024 at 4:09 PM, This14Real said:

Dude a carrot flute sounds awesome.

@salty_cookie

I think it would be better if Wortox could craft panflutes out of thin air, sort of like a “Soul Flute” made purely out of Souls. A Carrot Flute sounds Silly enough to be a Wes Thing.

[efgi]

Cloudy Carmen doesn't do it for me, but I mostly use the pan flute souls with soul piercer specifically to gain aggro against mobs that are hard to melee.

I do like picking up six free souls a day so that I don't have to dip into my soul jars and undermine covetous collector.

I also like that the neutral skills help me pick up teleporting friends with twintail hearts without having to sink more points into Nice.

[ShadowDuelist]

On 11/22/2024 at 7:00 AM, Kwaik said:

The sleep thing already belongs to wormwood 

Wicker had her own sleep tool even before Wormwood existed. I think it's fair that all three characters get some unique version/use of it.

As others already pointed it out, I agree that wortox's panflute perks needs a bit of a buff though, not necessarily to be as strong as Wormwood's, just having slightly better numbers than what they currently do.

 

[IAmAFurrz]

16 hours ago, Dingle said:

Only really one type of speed run: the "get a shadow piece going on day 1 for as early as possible fuelweaver, then quit playing" type.

In any other speedrun, I think you really still want to get a jar, even if its just one.

not really, i still find the pan to be useful even without speedrunning. its also good as alternatives with points to spare

[Dingle]

44 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

not really, i still find the pan to be useful even without speedrunning. its also good as alternatives with points to spare

Do you get the panflute, but skip soul jar? That was the context.

[IAmAFurrz]

11 hours ago, Dingle said:

Do you get the panflute, but skip soul jar? That was the context.

nono, i get both, both is good. jars and echo upgrades are basically must picks, since they are big QoLs

[cyjs]

You can use the pan flute and the decomposition staff to get unlimited souls at a negligible cost.

In my opinion this skill is very good and does not need to be changed

[Koomin]

1 hour ago, cyjs said:

You can use the pan flute and the decomposition staff to get unlimited souls at a negligible cost.

In my opinion this skill is very good and does not need to be changed

While I do think that the pan flute skills besides Cloudy Carmen are in a good spot, using a deconstruction staff to get more souls from a pan flute is not a good plan, and would be quite the bad use of a deconstruction staff.  This statement is actually somehow convincing me the skills are not in a good spot and should be made stronger.