What the hell is wrong with the Wortox skill tree? (OUTDATED)

[ApoIIo]

The lunar affinity sucks.

The panflute upgrades, suck.
Knapsack is nice to have for picking things up, I guess

The map teleport skill (IS GOOD LOL)

Pretty much the only bad parts are the panflute and the lunar affinity

I like how the skill tree is turning out now

[Dextops]

Same, this skill tree just has me confused, other than the double echo and soul jars there's nothing i'd really seek out or really care about which sucks because the concept of the tree is really really cool. it feels like the tree was hit with a massive nerf hammer before it was even released and im quite confused why because i fail to see how something like the soul pierce and decoy doing more damage would break anything seeing as how niche they are.

[arubaro]

Just now, Dextops said:

Same, this skill tree just has me confused, other than the double echo and soul jars there's nothing i'd really seek out or really care about which sucks because the concept of the tree is really really cool. it feels like the tree was hit with a massive nerf hammer before it was even released and im quite confused why because i fail to see how something like the soul pierce and decoy doing more damage would break anything seeing as how niche they are.

I think is better to release something underpowered than needing to nerf op stuff while a bunch of forumiters that want to feel god in a videogame complain about a game being balanced like it was a bad thing

[Dextops]

Just now, arubaro said:

I think is better to release something underpowered than needing to nerf op stuff while a bunch of forumiters that want to feel god in a videogame complain about a game being balanced like it was a bad thing

yeah but im just scared the buffs may just never come or not be substantial enough to change things, it's still early in the beta so maybe im just worrying over nothing. But as it stands the wortox tree ain't more than a double echo and soul jars to me.

[Hollow soul 3]

Is the knabsacker a backpack? I feel like it would make sense if it was a backpack that delt damage based on how much was in it

[ApoIIo]

27 minutes ago, arubaro said:

I think is better to release something underpowered than needing to nerf op stuff while a bunch of forumiters that want to feel god in a videogame complain about a game being balanced like it was a bad thing

At least OP things can have enjoyment derived out of them. Whenever I look at this skill tree three of my dopamine receptors cease to function.

24 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Is the knabsacker a backpack? I feel like it would make sense if it was a backpack that delt damage based on how much was in it

No it's a weapon that requires
; Five soul jars, with 200 souls inside that you cannot draw from or it loses damage again
; A filled inventory
to deal dark sword damage.

Also none of the naughtiness extra damage souls skills actually benefit from the shadow reaper, so you choose between very, very clunky singular aoe per soul hop or slightly buffing your stray souls so they take like 5 kills to kill one bee instead of 10 or something. The damage is hopelessly low anyway.

[Baark0]

fun fact: apparently the free panflute use will go away after a little while if you dont use it

 

[ApoIIo]

Just now, Baark0 said:

fun fact: apparently the free panflute use will go away after a little while if you dont use it

 

Nevermind, I take back what I said about the free panflute. The entire neutral branch is ass.

[Hollow soul 3]

7 minutes ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

No it's a weapon that requires

; Five soul jars, with 100 souls inside that you cannot draw from or it loses damage again
; A filled inventory
to deal dark sword damage.

That feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. I thought they would do something rechargable like Wanda's weapon. With the access to more souls, it would be cool to utilize them more. Maybe if it were a backpack or something you could store stuff in, dealing damage based on the soul jars its holding, but the souls leak out as if it weren't in your pocket I guess?

1 minute ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

Nevermind, I take back what I said about the free panflute. The entire neutral branch is ass.

Wow that's bad! Can we get an alt crafting option for the panflute? If he's so musically inclined, please don't stifle his need to play by locking it behind such a limited resource 

[ApoIIo]

5 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

Wow that's bad! Can we get an alt crafting option for the panflute? If he's so musically inclined, please don't stifle his need to play by locking it behind such a limited resource 

Wormwood has multiple unique crafts from his skill tree with unique animations, Wortox could at least get a special flute and a proper "reaping" animation.

[Hollow soul 3]

1 minute ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

Wormwood has multiple unique crafts from his skill tree with unique animations, Wortox could at least get a special flute and a proper "reaping" animation.

For real, swap that first skill out for a recipe 

[ApoIIo]

Never mind, I forgot we did get special crafts.

[IAmAFurrz]

wow, i did not realize the skill tree was this dog water holy hell

[Hollow soul 3]

It looks like it should be able to hold stuff

[ApoIIo]

2 minutes ago, Hollow soul 3 said:

It looks like it should be able to hold stuff

Its appearance reflects how many items you are holding dealing 34 damage with a full inventory without the jar skill.

Also I mistyped, my bad. This crapsack needs 200 souls left untouched to be a passable weapon.

[Hollow soul 3]

It feels weird that it's based on the souls and inventory too. Kind of feels bad for the Wortox that likes to pick stuff up though. Like we hope you like picking stuff up, because we're going to want you to fill up your inventory, limiting how much you're going to pick up.

2 minutes ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

Also I mistyped, my bad. This crapsack needs 200 souls left untouched to be a passable weapon.

That's way too many souls to hit full damage. Man, I was excited for this for years XD I was expected it to catch him up way more. While we're at it, can we up the iframes after the teleport on console? Feels like it loses the dodge potential when you can't stay in one spot

[Hollow soul 3]

Is it based on your pockets and your backpack, or just pockets? If it's the backpack, can you up it more with a krampus sack? Really hoping it's just pockets tbh.

[twitchgabo]

I can't help it but say it is a really unappealing Skill tree:

 

Kanbsacker forces you to have full slots which is a nuisance for the benefit of a dark sword damage (why make it if we can just craft a dark sword lol). They should make the item with slots like a backpack so we can fill it. that would be MUCH better and much more appealing.

Soul Jar is another item that forces you to stack 5 of them in order to benefit from the skill tree...filling our slots while we already have SO MANY items to gather in the game

Soul Thief and Soul Pierce are kinda okish

 

The Panflute section is really underwhelming

Reaching souls and Soul Bastion look like filler skill tree points

Shadow Harvester and Lunar Swindler are also really boring.

Lifted Spirits is the only section that I think is good/interesting

 

 

They could explore so much more his Mechanics: 

Maybe having an increased chance of getting Krampus Sack drops (since he is related to Krampus), getting the ability to disguise himself to make pigs/bunnyman not hostile to you...

Overall a pretty underwhelming skill tree. I feel so sad for Wortox. He deserves much better.

I really hope Klei reworks his entire ST set.

[Hollow soul 3]

12 minutes ago, twitchgabo said:

Hope Klei reworks his entire ST set.

Making his nerfs worse is bad too. He's so heavily nerfed for such a mediocre character. I thought the skill trees would balance the characters. Can't believe they want you to pay extra for him.

The power defence between Wanda is only going to get wider when she gets a skill tree. Man, I'm actually upset at myself for how disappointed I am right now. The more I think about it, the less I like it

[Gabepelegrini]

I think some people a missing the point of his character. He is not supposed to deal a lot of damage, he's a support character. He will also perform poorly in solo compared to other characters because he works best in a team. The damage gimmicks are in there to help you farm souls, not deal increased dps.
Just having access to the soul jars makes him such a versatile character that makes him able to be anywhere in the map at any instant. He is also extremely dodgy, while being to provide incredible amounts of healing to his teammates.

The knabsack is an utility item, so you can gather all the stinger mess you're gonna make after killing bees. I think it wasn't supposed to be used as a weapon but they added the damage later as a way of giving him a way of having planar damage. Maybe they should make it a whip so we can kill birds with it too.

The affinities are a bit underwhelming, i'm not gonna lie. The shadow reaper should allow wortox to do the reap animation and deal damage in an area. The lunar affinity just makes him have a shadowbone armor resist against nightmare creatures... if it didn't reset the timer or instead decreased the timer by an amount per hit, it could be very useful against bosses with big negative sanity auras.

All you are choosing on the scale is weather you want to heal more with less souls or farm souls easier but heal less. Nice makes him a better boss killing support by giving him more healing and revive potential, while naughty makes him a fetch support by making him have a large pool of souls to teleport.

The pan flute... i really don't understand why it's there but i guess it's there. Too insconsistent to use it when needed, but i think the idea was to give a moment of respite during battle, sorta like the healing staff in the forge. Maybe Cloudy Carmen should make the buff not go away until the panflute is played.

I really like wortox because i can assist anyone in my team, no matter where they are in the map, and I'll i have to do is a little bit of bee or spider farming. I'm not saying the tree is perfect, i'm just saying some people are looking at it from the wrong point of view.

[mima_]

i agree wortox skill tree is the worst out of three.
what with carrying 4/5 fulljar of soul for mere darksword damage. if its need to be that annoying then better make the knabsack have no durability instead ..
the rest of skill tree need to be rework really .

[asdsaax]

48 minutes ago, Gabepelegrini said:

I think some people a missing the point of his character. He is not supposed to deal a lot of damage, he's a support character.

Your point is incorrect... for you see:
Wigfrid has supporting capabilities that are superior in different situations like toadstool, following your logic, I think we gotta ask a question:
why Wigfrid is allowed to support teammates and have built in support stuff for herself as damage character with progression that gives her unholy synergies?
Following that principle she should have good damage, but also be brittle so supports have a point, but no

Wortox is the only character that gets bitter balance treatment, when others have multitools of mass destruction, utility, progression and synergies
So that idea of balancing characters doesn't really check out in this game, because characters get a little bit of everything, but Wortox got overbuffed where he didn't need to be and his personal stuff demands crazy commitment to achieve average damage from base items

and Wortox mains are upset because instead of cool stuff like other characters, he gets robbed from his own premise (Look at Wanda with her revive clock and improved teleportation with dodge blinks) and he is balanced around Wilson, when everyone else goes crazy
+He already excells at being healing slave, we don't need to buff that

[Hollow soul 3]

We could be using wormwood as an example here. Hes still a support character, but he got cool new stuff, and his combat perks are no strings attached. Jason said in the Wendy tree discussion that the skill trees are meant to balance the characters. I think they overvalued wortox's strengths. Teleporting isnt really unique to him, it's been given to other survivors with greater costs, but the huge benefit of bringing others. Weird that the teleporting support character can't support with teleporting when others can. He doesn't have anything unique to him. He can't do new cool things that others can't. He's redundant, without the power to support it. Just nerfs and hoops. The telltale too, who's that for? What wortox main is missing spider glands or health? Thanks for saving me on grass I guess? I have to keep my inventory full, so I have some grass, and save I should save 200 souls for the damage of a dark sword, but... Or if I didn't have the souls to heal them, I should craft a telltale with these souls I must have ran out of? Low synergy with self, no new synergy with others, no new abilities, no way new way to use the souls that you can now horde unless you drop this container designed to hold them from your inventory, then it leaks. So many stipulations and fringe cases, and setup for such low rewards. We couldn't even get a new hat for the final part of the tree, they just threw two hats together without even adding a new skin. Who else has a skill based on a limited item that only works for a little bit randomly? So much recycled content on a character that doesn't have anything unique going for him. Sorry if I'm repeating anything, this skill tree gets worse every time I look at it. 

2 hours ago, Gabepelegrini said:

the knabsack is an utility item, so you can gather all the stinger mess you're gonna make after killing bees. I think it wasn't supposed to be used as a weapon but they added the damage later as a way of giving him a way of having planar damage. Maybe they should make it a whip so we can kill birds with it too.

From what I hear, that's not correct. It's only a weapon, not a utility item. The recharging idea for Wanda's weapon, or crafting a weapon out of the souls could have been fun, but instead we get a hobo bag that doesn't hold things.

[ShadowDuelist]

Maybe the knabsack should hold souls itself once you are full, up to dunno, 20? and instead of consuming durability it should consume the souls that are inside of it, upon using it.
When empty it could deal some crappy damage with no durability (something like 20). And to make it different from Wanda's whip it could:
- Deal dark sword damage when full of souls (Probably something like 20 max, and as long as you keep collecting souls, it would have no durability)
- Act as a souls reserve for Wortox if you reach 0 souls yourself but the weapon still has them, or for very long map teleports.
- Act like a better bug net? Perhaps making a vacuum effect to capture 2-3 bees/mosquitos/butterflies with each swing, in a small AOE

[Hollow soul 3]

A auto bug net would fit the characters needs a lot more than what he got.

Maybe it catches the bugs or small critters and just converts them to souls