[Game Update] - 642632

[arubaro]

14 minutes ago, Keknutui said:

KLEI, could you redo the design of Woody and Wolfgang's skill tree?

And the perks too...

[justSmoczy]

Some of my thoughts after having tested the skill trees for about 3 hrs:

Wendy:
-Lots of uninteresting skills, just an overall meh
-...except the gestalt form and flower vest which are both great for given bossfights
-Shadow affinity s u c k s, it feels like you just removed Wortox's problem of having to collect animals for souls on the go and moved that problem to Wendy. 80 damage AoE for killing a bee? I don't think Abby needs it given that she's already amazing at AoE and can even scare enemies now to tank less health in a fight.
Wortox:
-Amazing idea for skilltree; having him choose balance between nice and naughty
-Knabsack is a cool concept for a powerful yet cheap weapon, but having to collect 200 souls and then clutter up 7 inventory slots specifically for it to reach max dmg (78?) is a bit ridiculous imo. And if you for some reason want to not use it, leaving your soul jars by themselves depletes them over time. I know it's a lot of power for a lot of grind but I'm just saying it's very tedious and I see myself using just a hambat instead of cluttering up so much inventory space. Another thing: if its a sack why doesn't it have an inventory? Couldn't it level up based on souls and brilliance/pure horror gathered within it?; and then soul jars would instead be the stationary form of soul collection, given that currently you cant even easily access souls from them.
-Shadow affinity seems crap- soul hop for 1 AoE attack? The lunar one blocks damage so it can have actual use in bossfights.
Walter:
-As someone said previously, the tree is a nothing burger, most of it is just "Walter learns to craft something" ;and as such, it's underwhelming, but I also think that Walter as a character is just a stereotype scout made into a character with random perks and no well thought out design I think he should be completely reworked. While Woodie suffers from the same deisgn problem, his skilltree made him really interesting and have different fun choices. Walter has just been made Woby and catapult, nothing else.
 

Edited November 22, 2024 by justSmoczy
grammar

[Vampyre77]

I feel like Walter could use some more skills that aren't slingshot related, maybe combine some of the pellet perks into one and give him a few different perks

[_mylilsunshine_]

If Walter is still subject to change, I'd like for his slingshot to interact with the endgame rift armour in some way, like how Brightshade Sword gets a boost when using the Bright Helm. I like the endgame item, it'd be such a shame if I have to abandon my trusty slingshot because things overly outclass it.

[the adir842]

when it comes to Wendy's skill tree it's generally good.
i only have two problems with it:

1. the gravestones Wendy can place and make should be destructible by hammer, without summoning an angry ghost.
doing this will help at least mitigate trolling.
2. the branch regarding the tonics is very underwhelming and unnecessary as a branch, you can have a longer tonic duration 1 that increases duration by 50% instead of 3 that fully doubles the duration, this would free up the other two skills for better ideas then longer tonic duration 2 and 3 (which do the same thing as longer tonic duration 1 but they stack)

there could be a skill that improves the tonic's effects, maybe a new haunting tonic that allows a single use to make Abigale haunt something without Wendy dying, a skill that Abigale can handle two tonics at once for less of the time, if you want to get extra creative with these idea do all of them but make it a split path so you can only pick one or the other.

[HansimUnglueck]

On 11/22/2024 at 7:58 PM, justSmoczy said:

Walter:
-As someone said previously, the tree is a nothing burger, most of it is just "Walter learns to craft something" ;and as such, it's underwhelming, but I also think that Walter as a character is just a stereotype scout made into a character with random perks and no well thought out design I think he should be completely reworked. While Woodie suffers from the same deisgn problem, his skilltree made him really interesting and have different fun choices. Walter has just been made Woby and catapult, nothing else.
 

On 11/22/2024 at 1:19 PM, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Yep. gonna echo this sentiment right here which I believe captures the truth very well:

Klei, Walter is so, so much more than just Sling & Woby. He's a boy scout, he loves nature, he's a pacifist (kind of), he's allergic to bees, he can craft camping items, he can tell campfire story, he's blissfully fearless, he's indifferent to clothes, etc. You gave him all of these flavorful characteristics and lore, just to discard them all in the skill tree. This is just like when the British colonies for spices, and then give the world toast sandwiches (look it up). I don't want to spend points on ammo 1, ammo 1.5, ammo A, ammo B, etc.

When I first saw that Walter was getting a skill tree I was kinda surprised because the character falls very flat when compared to the kinds of Wolfgang, Wickerbottom or even Willow.

After logging into the beta myself and looking at the skill tree I also had issues with how little Walter's character was included. Currently, this skill tree is not enough to fix the underlying issues the character is suffering from. I don't want to start raging or rambling here, I simply want to point out my idea of Walter as balanced addition to DST.

That's why I also want to emphazise the idea of Walter as a boy scout. Someone that follows the Scout Law. To get a better idea of Walter as a character I want to sum up what his qualities are right now in DST. Walter is capable of crafting different tools to contribute, nothing too substantial though. His portable Tent Roll / Camper's Tent is somewhat nice if you lack the materials for the default tent. The Pinetree Pioneer Hat which is supposed to serve as a jack of all trades regarding environmental conditions as protection from rain or heat falls very flat, even early game on. Health loss which translates into double the sanity loss is best combated by more protective armor instead of a sanity drain reduction. Less health drain equals less sanity drain. Especially because Walter suffers from some perk that gives the player an even bigger disadventage using the Pinetree Pioneer Hat: Health loss becomes a permanent sanity drain that is best avoided by taking less damage which is easily done by better protective headgear as a Football Helmet or Dreadstone Helm. The problem here is not the sanity drain per se but the percentage of armor aka total damage taken. After all, the extra stats on the hat are nice but fail their purpose especially in the course of progressing the game.

Walter as the only character that is capable of telling stories at the fire to give a small sanity aura is a cute idea that I really appreciate. It adds to the idea of a boys scout. Sadly, this feature has very little usage, because you're not able to move or do anything else while Walter is performing, same goes for the captive audience that has to be close to gain some sanity. The skill falls off quite fast especially after having access to Starcaller's sanity aura. The only usage I see here is for sailing on the ocean to keep Wavey Jones at bay which is very situational (the automatic reset of perspective/zoom is very annoying and should be fixed immediately, by the way).

Overall, these items and perks add some layers to his character but fail to give much on a gameplay level, progressing from early to mid game. Commonly, Walter is only used by people to either rush the Shadow Pieces and locate or should I say... scout for the Suspicious Marbles or to farm birds for a Krampus Sack. He is neither good at fighting like Wigfrid or Wolfgang even when fighting with a ranged weapon, nor does he contribute to the base building aspect with unique structures like Wendy or Winona. His identity is made up of many smalls perks that ultimately falls flat. I would like to present some changes, that would improve these flaws.

On 11/22/2024 at 9:40 PM, Vampyre77 said:

I feel like Walter could use some more skills that aren't slingshot related, maybe combine some of the pellet perks into one and give him a few different perks

Firstly, I would add some abilities to his kit that represent him as a fearless and curious boy scout. One of these abilites would include Suspicious Dirt Piles. With the addition of Volt Goats being added as a reneable mob during spring I want to advocate for the addition of Beefalos as a renewable mob in either Summer or Autumn as well. It always bugged me why Beefalos can go extinct but Goats should be treated differently. Walter, for example, could be able to track said beefalos but wouldn't stop there. In additon to beefalos I would add a broader variety of different set pieces that have a low chance of spawning at the end of the track making track scouting one of the most prominent and rewarding activities playing Walter. Pig houses, pig torches, berry bushes or treeguards, small graveyards or failed survivors, there is many options to choose from. This would be easily comparable to Wendy assisting Pipspooks mechanic wise and just add depth to an already existing feature (Suspicous Dirt Piles).

Secondly, I would change some of the penalties Walter is currently suffering the most from. While some character have hight risk high reward inbuilt abilities, Walter just suffers from high risk, low reward. I would strongly advise to remove the sanity drain from depleted health. This penalty doesn't add any meaningful perk to his identity, neither does any of his abilites justify such an overwhelming downside. It's just not fun to play (any survival game) when you're constantly focussed on keeping your health bar full at all times, especially when Walter is aimed at less experienced players that want to experiment with different characters.

Thirdly, I would add some improved versions of his craftable items. An improved version of his Tent Roll / Camper's Tent would be beneficial not just for Walter but for all players, same goes for his ability to read stories at a fire. I really like the idea of adding new stories that unlock while progressing the story (killing seasonal bosses, activating the archives, and Wild Rift Cycles) to spice of this perk. Here, I would also incorporate a small buff to his sanity aura with each accomplishment. 

Adding new types of ammoniton might make him more viable as a ranged fighter but overall his character is not a fearless fighter but a scout. I like the idea of an improved version of the Slingshot which desperately needs some attack speed modification but adding 3 new modules is not exactly something I had in mind.

I'm willing to test how good these modules will serve their purpose though I expect some changes. I will update this after testing these features.

Lastly, I want to address my issues with Woby. While I strongly believe that the idea of a duo that came to happen by accident is an intriguing idea, this idea hasn't been thought through. Woby as a permanent follower serving as a fusion of a personal Chester and beefalo gives some benefits, both Chester and a fully tamed beefalo contribute more in the long run. Because Woby is always afraid of fights and buckles Walter after getting hit, the risk is much higher than the reward. From my personal experience, I have seen a lot of Walters taming beefalos instead of using Woby as a ridable follower. The new patch system might change that and I'm very happy about the idea of adding more weight and usage to Woby.

Quote

The Woby training skills are also a work in progress. Here are some things we're working on:

Making the training progress and badge effects more engaging and easier to understand.

Adjusting numbers and possibly adding features that would make Big Woby a competitive alternative to beefalos. The goal is to have features that set them apart, instead of trying to replace beefalos.

I'm not quite sure about the second paragraph, adding Woby as a competitive alternative to beefalos. The only difference right now is that a beefalo is harder to tame early on + the crafting cost of the Saddle (maybe) but has a far bigger pay-off (after taming) that Woby never reaches: speed, stat or power wise. The other differences I can think of are food types you can offer with Woby exclusively eating Moster Meat and Beefalos being vegans and maybe the slot of a Beefalo Bell that Walter doesn't have to keep with Woby. Other than that, Woby is just a worse beefalo at the moment that one has access to from day one to scout for Suspicous Marbles.

I haven't tested the changes myself but reworking how Woby interacts with the player seems to be a good thing. I like the idea of patches Walter can earn to increase Woby's stats and showcase their improving relationship. That's a great way to showcase their story.

 

To sum up the main points of my post:

Walter needs more features that add depth into his boy scout identity. Adding a refined tracking perk with randomly generated loot that would be otherwise non-nenewable would add a lot of appeal.

His perks need some rebalance to make his gameplay more enjoyable and somewhat more forgiving/rewarding.

Woby needs some unique characterics that allow her to become a follower that people desire to have instead of using a Chester hybrid while simultaneously taming a beefalo.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by HansimUnglueck

[wisko]

I also think Walter should have more scout inspiration:

• Map expert: Walter gains experience in this as he uncovers more % of the world map.
  • lvl one: walters map reveal radius is increased by 25%
  • lvl two map reveal radius is increased by 50%
  • lvl three: walter can craft a map that shares his map with other players.
• Trailblazer: walter travels faster on roads and paths, when he steps off a path or road, he leaves behind a temporary path for 20 seconds, these temporary paths last for x minutes
• Trail snacks
  • Walter receives more hunger (+sanity?) from things like roasted birch nuts, berries, etc.
• Woby tracking: when interacted with, Woby can automatically pathfind to the next suspicious dirt pile.
  • Woby tracking lvl 2: special tracks can be found that lead to different encounters. Some ideas could be, Beefalo, special material to craft treats for Woby similar to abigail potions).
• Story telling could be buffed to provide certain buffs, maybe you can pick a theme for the story and if someone sticks around for long enough they will gain a buff for 1 day, some ideas could be 20% reduced sanity drain, 5% movement speed buff, +25% increased sanity from eating foods, 10% increased damage.
• Efficient firemaker: logs give more fuel, Walter can "tend to" the fire pit buffing its light radius, and increasing its fuel efficiency.
• Badges: Walter can create a badge kit using silk and a sewing kit. when using it, you can select a quest that when completed changes to a special badge that gives a buff when it's in your inventory, can only have one in your inventory and they are destroyed if you try to drop them. These badges last for 10 days before falling apart
  • e.g. collect 20 berries -> foragables occasionally give extra, build 5 camp fires -> logs give more fuel, take x amount of steps around the map -> travel 15% faster on roads and paths, befriend 5 allies -> duration of friendship increased by 30%, defeat 10 hostile creatures -> 10% reduced damage.

[wisko]

I also think Walter should have more scout inspiration:

• Map expert: Walter gains experience in this as he uncovers more % of the world map.
  • lvl one: walters map reveal radius is increased by 25%
  • lvl two map reveal radius is increased by 50%
  • lvl three: walter can craft a map that shares his map with other players.
• Trailblazer: walter travels faster on roads and paths, when he steps off a path or road, he leaves behind a temporary path for 20 seconds, these temporary paths last for x minutes
• Trail snacks
  • Walter receives increased hunger restoration (and possibly sanity restoration) from simple foraged foods, such as roasted birch nuts, berries, and carrots.
• Woby tracking:
  • Level 1: When interacted with, Woby can automatically pathfind to the next suspicious dirt pile.
  • Level 2: Walter gains access to special tracks that lead to unique encounters:
    • Encounters: Tracks could lead to creatures like Beefalo or yield special materials used to craft Woby treats (similar to Abigail's potions).
• Campfire stories buff:
  • Walter’s campfire stories can now be themed, providing buffs to listeners who stay for long enough. Buffs last for 1 in-game day. (P.S. I always thought it was kind of funny/wierd that sppoky stories gave sanity)
    • Buff Themes:
      • Whispering Shadows: Reduces sanity drain by 20%.
      • The Phantom Hiker: Increases movement speed by 5%.
      • Curse of the Hollow tree: Boosts sanity gained from eating foods by 25%.
      • The man with the hook!: Increases damage dealt by 10%.
• Efficient firemaker
  • Improved Fuel Efficiency: Logs used in campfires and fire pits burn for longer.
  • Fire Tending: Walter can “tend to” fire pits, temporarily increasing their light radius and further boosting their fuel efficiency.
• Badges:
  • Walter can craft a Badge Kit (requires silk and a sewing kit) to create quests for players. Completing a quest awards a Scout Badge that provides buffs.

  • Badge Mechanics:

    • Badges last for 10 in-game days before falling apart.
    • Players can only carry one badge at a time, and badges are destroyed if dropped.

  • Badge Examples:

    • Forager Badge: Quest: Collect 20 berries.
      • Buff: Forageables occasionally yield extra items.
    • Firestarter Badge: Quest: Build 5 campfires.
      • Buff: Logs provide more fuel when used in campfires.
    • Pathfinder Badge: Quest: Take a certain number of steps.
      • Buff: Travel 15% faster on roads and paths.
    • Friendship Badge: Quest: Befriend 5 allies (e.g., pigs or beefalo).
      • Buff: Duration of friendships is increased by 30%.
    • Defender Badge: Quest: Defeat 10 hostile creatures.
      • Buff: Reduces incoming damage by 10%.

[Nneyk]

On 11/22/2024 at 5:32 PM, arubaro said:

What is the problem with that? Opens more gameplay possibilities 

Mostly i was just annoyed with every character having the same ui for their abilities.

And that old abigale controlls are gone.

I really loved how much you could do with a single item and how you just need to press one button to get it done.

[JJ0264]

I think Klei was trying to recorrect Walter's soup of random perks, people were complaining about it so Klei made Walter's skill-tree is more focus on two perks to make him more defined as a character. That's my guess.

[Mike23Ua]

On 12/18/2024 at 12:30 PM, Nneyk said:

Mostly i was just annoyed with every character having the same ui for their abilities.

And that old abigale controlls are gone.

I really loved how much you could do with a single item and how you just need to press one button to get it done.

So… worse for controller players? yeah I figure as much lol