the giant worm is a completely broken nonsence for showing somebody's malice.

[Steorra]

All video & gif below are based on a world without cave, mods, net lag. And lag compensation is OFF.

The giant worm is just a thing for showing how ppl do enjoy gloating. Because most ppl don't care about how other players feel about this worm when they have different play-style.

In fact we all know it's easy to completely avoid this "boss" with many method. You could just run out of this boss fight then nothing could do bad influence to you. But this cannot prove that the giant worm is a good designed mob.

Now please check my video. It shows that you could kill the giant worm with only 1 speed-boost item (eg. cane) + 1 weapon THEORETICALLY, just like how I did in the video before 14s. But for most ppl the game has generally lag - My video is based on a world without CAVE and MODs (only T mod for testing). In most generally game play, you can't do same thing as my video to fight the giant worm with "avoiding, go close the boss and hit 3 times, avoiding, loop" because of the cave lag, the server lag and others.

And when there's generally lag, The AOE effect - that "wave" of the giant worm when it head in/out of the ground - would be not able to dealt with. That "wave" AOE would hit you by its unreasonable range and slow your next action. 

Even you are enough lucky to avoided those ground wave AOE, when you switch your weapon/cane, there's a randomly delay which would makes you frequently  failed to get close to the worm head in time - then you loss the chance to hit the worm head safely.

 

Ofc I know there's an officially method to dealt with this giant worm by feeding it many items. But this method SHOULD NOT be the only method to kill the worm with your own character. As an early game boss, it SHOULD have a method to kill without massive item loss. Also there's another fact that the giant worm would appear in every area (including the ancient orchestrina room), and not every area has enough items for current giant worm fight.

 

Besides, the whole AOE hitbox effect of the giant worm is broken as well. Let us highlight this period of my video - 

Could any "giant worm lover" can explain this gif for telling us why giant worm is a good reasonally boss?

Also the giant worm is a boss which has chance to appear at day 26 (very early game) but could easily one-shot log-suit Wilson. Considering Charlie would attack you when there's no light while you are moving "under" the giant worm (the swallowing would have chance to make you out of your light), the swallow combo would dealt more ridiculous damage to a full-armed character on early game.

 

 

Is all of these things reasonable?

[arubaro]

Knowing how to position is key to fight this boss...you are kitting it by moving near their parts, ofc it will throw you near their spikes. Next time try to go more straight 

[Steorra]

Just for show how to kill giant worm without feeding it in no lag world (1st is main world, 2nd is cave) - here's my video.

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Knowing how to position is key to fight this boss...you are kitting it by moving near their parts, ofc it will throw you near their spikes. Next time try to go more straight 

I don't want this thread become another place for some ppl showing how they better than other players.

This thread is talking about the giant worm design, how it is unreasonable for current early game, not talking about how to deal with a broken design boss.

broken design is not mean "hard core".

[SilverSpoon]

The Giant worm really needs work I think too.

- It has a chance of stunlocking the player (rumor has it that it's 80% on hit). If you're unlucky, one hit can stunlock you until you die.

- It knockback the player back outside the worm when it hits, but it doesn't take into account whether there are other worm segments at the knockback destination, so another stunlock-knockback loop may start without you being able to do anything. In the worst case scenario, you will be swallowed without being able to move.

- It deals 392 damage when swallowed. This is the strongest single-hit damage in the game, and poop out doesn't take into account whether there are worm segments at the destination, so you may be instantly killed without being able to do anything.
Also, while swallowed, you lost your sanity will drain by about 50-70, and in some cases, after being swallowed and your health drops to 1, you will be get pursuit and instantly killed by shadow creatures.

-It destroy structures, so when a wave occurs, you must leave your base within 30 seconds as if your life depended on it. Which is not easy in Megabase.

- It destroys most items. Say good bye Level 4 Shadow Maul, Polar Bearger Bin, Enlightened Crown, Brush exc.

-Assuming the table on wiki.gg is correct, The Giant worm drops about 50 of items, but the probability of dropping a glowberry is 0.2%, so the expected drop value of glowberries is about 1.1, which means that the number of glowberries you can get decreases as the days go by (In testing in game, I killed 10 giant worms, but only dropped 13 glowberries in total.). And also, the chance of a single Giant worm dropping a fossil is about only 6%. 

I think the Giant worm is too "Player punisher", so I choose to just ignore it or turn it off in the server settings. And no one on our Discord even takes on the Giant worm anymore. I wish they could at least do something about destroying player's stuff.
 

[nimzowitsch10]

i've been telling everyone how hard this boss is but there's always that one or two people that say "haha it's ez" and the thread just becomes derailed at that point. 

You get eaten once by the worm and there's a chance of losing all your items for the opportunity to gain some non useful resources you get from everywhere.

If the worm actually dropped something useful, that would excuse its difficulty and make players actually try to fight it but for now it is the most avoided boss and actually noone fights it.

[Steorra]

33 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

The Giant worm really needs work I think too.

- It has a chance of stunlocking the player (rumor has it that it's 80% on hit). If you're unlucky, one hit can stunlock you until you die.

- It knockback the player back outside the worm when it hits, but it doesn't take into account whether there are other worm segments at the knockback destination, so another stunlock-knockback loop may start without you being able to do anything. In the worst case scenario, you will be swallowed without being able to move.

- It deals 392 damage when swallowed. This is the strongest single-hit damage in the game, and poop out doesn't take into account whether there are worm segments at the destination, so you may be instantly killed without being able to do anything.
Also, while swallowed, you lost your sanity will drain by about 50-70, and in some cases, after being swallowed and your health drops to 1, you will be get pursuit and instantly killed by shadow creatures.

-It destroy structures, so when a wave occurs, you must leave your base within 30 seconds as if your life depended on it. Which is not easy in Megabase.

- It destroys most items. Say good bye Level 4 Shadow Maul, Polar Bearger Bin, Enlightened Crown, Brush exc.

-Assuming the table on wiki.gg is correct, The Giant worm drops about 50 of items, but the probability of dropping a glowberry is 0.2%, so the expected drop value of glowberries is about 1.1, which means that the number of glowberries you can get decreases as the days go by (In testing in game, I killed 10 giant worms, but only dropped 13 glowberries in total.). And also, the chance of a single Giant worm dropping a fossil is about only 6%. 

I think the Giant worm is too "Player punisher", so I choose to just ignore it or turn it off in the server settings. And no one on our Discord even takes on the Giant worm anymore. I wish they could at least do something about destroying player's stuff.
 

Yes, the most broken point of the giant worm is for current drop list - fighting difficulty of this boss, it does not encourage ppl to study "how to fight this boss", it just encourage ppl to "how to ignore this boss".

I personally don't mind to fight giant worm, and I would like to always kill it at every wave of it by every method because of hatred. But "I could fight it" don't prove the giant worm could hit "OK level" on mob designing perspective. It's a completely "Wow, we have a cool boss idea, let us show it to you with broken/unfinished form."

10 minutes ago, nimzowitsch10 said:

i've been telling everyone how hard this boss is but there's always that one or two people that say "haha it's ez" and the thread just becomes derailed at that point. 

You get eaten once by the worm and there's a chance of losing all your items for the opportunity to gain some non useful resources you get from everywhere.

If the worm actually dropped something useful, that would excuse its difficulty and make players actually try to fight it but for now it is the most avoided boss and actually noone fights it.

I'm glad to see any evidence for proving how the giant boss is "ez" or "good design", but it seems it's impossible to get any video from those ppl who say "giant boss is ez, if you think it is not good that's your own problem". This is how internet to make trolls become "giant" haha.

[Crimson Hollow]

Judging by the difficulty of this giant boi I feel like he should be tied to something, e.g. a buildable altar players can pray at to summon the giant worm in the next worm attack, rather than letting him come randomly and force players to either fight a hard battle with trash loot or letting him sabotage a couple hundred days of progress.

[Steorra]

17 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

Judging by the difficulty of this giant boi I feel like he should be tied to something, e.g. a buildable altar players can pray at to summon the giant worm in the next worm attack, rather than letting him come randomly and force players to either fight a hard battle with trash loot or letting him sabotage a couple hundred days of progress.

Agreed.

Also I personally think the giant worm 1st generate should be relative with "Cave days of character" but not the whole server days. And 25 days is still too fast, it should at least be doubled. (the bearger of main world would generate at day 70+...)

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Steorra said:

So, could you upload your video about how you fight the giant worm here, for sharing your "tips" to everyone? Let us compare our comprehension about the giant worm here, and let us show more tips for other ppl by upload out giant worm fighting video shall we? I'm glad to share and learn, so does to improve. But for you keep ignoring my response, I start to curious about your philosophy when you sharing your "tips" without any evidence of video.

Sorry but no, i wont waste that much time.

Simply dont kite making circles arround the worm, go straight in one direction so the body makes a straight line.  Ofc is harder to accomplish in small rooms in the ruins but your video was recorded in a wide space

With your previous response clearly you simply want to nerf an easy enemy

The only unfair mechanic is the worm destroying player items. The damage if fair considering how slow are their only dangerous atack 

 

People asking to make this enemy the 473626th optional encounter is sad, seems like ~8Years without receiving a threat that looks after the player has make a lot of damage in the mind set

[Echsrick]

it is a bad game design that was only added because the update needed for some reasons a big boss like fight because every update needs one of those i guess....thankfully you can disable bad game design in the server settings

[SilverSpoon]

37 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Simply dont kite making circles arround the worm, go straight in one direction so the body makes a straight line.

37 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Ofc is harder to accomplish in small rooms in the ruins

Why do you think the above sentence is right even though you yourself have given the answer in the following sentence? Are you ok?

In tight place in caverns,  especially if Ickers are blocking your path, it is nearly impossible to move in a straight line away from the Great Depths Worm. That has already been noted.

5 hours ago, Steorra said:

Also there's another fact that the giant worm would appear in every area (including the ancient orchestrina room), and not every area has enough items for current giant worm fight.

Furthermore, while I agree that kiting making circles around the worm is wrong, but dealing enough damage to InstaKill a full health and armored player is way too punishing and broken. Plus he destroys items? Just NO.

 

37 minutes ago, arubaro said:

but your video was recorded in a wide space

That is just nitpicking. Even if it was shoot a wide area because it's reenactment video, but if the Great Depths Worm also appears in tight areas in the actual game, then that's a not balanced, Right?

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Sorry but no, i wont waste that much time.

Simply dont kite making circles arround the worm, go straight in one direction so the body makes a straight line.  Ofc is harder to accomplish in small rooms in the ruins but your video was recorded in a wide space

With your previous response clearly you simply want to nerf an easy enemy

The only unfair mechanic is the worm destroying player items. The damage if fair considering how slow are their only dangerous atack 

 

People asking to make this enemy the 473626th optional encounter is sad, seems like ~8Years without receiving a threat that looks after the player has make a lot of damage in the mind set

Classic "I won't waste my time" as an excuse for evidence haha.

You already wasted many times on teaching philosophy, "sharing tips", judging people, arguing and insulting, but you only have no option on "waste time for evidence", we all know what the fact hiding here 

 

Also be blind of my second video which battled in ruin room, another fun thing shows that you don't like to "waste time" to see any evidence which would hurts your ego

[DegenerateFurry]

I don't know how you're getting grabbed by it when you're not directly in the landing zone of its head. If that's a thing, it should indeed be fixed, because that seems like a bug. I've never had that happen to me, though.

However, the rest of the boss isn't nearly as much of a problem as you're making it out to be. You can fight the Great Depths Worm with only lightbulbs, which you can literally get hundreds of before day 5 (it's one of the ways I amass rot for fertilizing large quantities tufts and bushes early on, by getting hundreds of lightbulbs and making Toadstool rot them). There's no "mass item loss" requirement. Lightbulbs are free in the caves and you won't even need a stack. I believe this is the intended method of fighting it. 

If a player who's too inexperienced to know how to fight this thing takes on Deerclops with only a logsuit and a ham bat or spear, they're gonna die to that too, and it comes at around the same time. It also destroys your base if you stay in it when it arrives.

The fact that getting vored will almost instakill you is fine since that's an extremely easy attack to avoid (literally just run away from it, maybe after dropping a lightbulb or two to distract it) and very obvious that it should be avoided. It could maybe use a little tweaking to be less punishing as Wanda, and the thing you showed where it'll grab you when you're not directly under/over its mouth should be fixed, but the core concept of the miniboss is fine and is fun to fight. I do dislike that it destroys non-food items, too, but anything with a spoilage timer should indeed be gone if it eats them.

This is just another new challenge people are gonna have to learn. People want more interesting gameplay than "hold F, run away, repeat"? New stuff brings new difficulties. 

[Echsrick]

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Classic "I won't waste my time" as an excuse for evidence haha.

You already wasted many times on teaching philosophy, "sharing tips", judging people, arguing and insulting, but you only have no option on "waste time for evidence", we all know what the fact hiding here 

 

Also be blind of my second video which battled in ruin room, another fun thing shows that you don't like to "waste time" to see any evidence which would hurts your ego

alsol heres another thing...wich is kind of a pitty...he uses the "laught" emote every time but in a way it feels more so in a way of "trolling" or "your stupid" kind of look wich just...makes it even worse in a way

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Ok, seems like "dont make circles" is such a complex tip for someone who wants nerfs

Any of your words just shows that you have no evidence to show how you good or "you could" at dealt with those broken design, but you only have a mouth and a great heart which leads you always win after arguing / insulting ppl in your mind

Just now, Echsrick said:

alsol heres another thing...wich is kind of a pitty...he uses the "laught" emote every time but in a way it feels more so in a way of "trolling" or "your stupid" kind of look wich just...makes it even worse in a way

I have never see aruboros use any emotion, but here's a fact I have to clarify - "trolling" is not defined by what emotion a sentence used, but defined by how many evidence a sentence gave. 

Sharing evidence with opinions = discussion

Posting opinions with judgement, insulting and broken ego but without any evidence = trolling

[Echsrick]

5 minutes ago, Steorra said:

 

I have never see aruboros use any emotion, 

 

well those reactions you can use on a comment down left, he seems to allways use the laugth emote lookin thing for when he dont aggre to anyone when you try to counter his words

in a way he is laugthing at your counter of what ever he says...at least thats how i see it

[Steorra]

14 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I don't know how you're getting grabbed by it when you're not directly in the landing zone of its head. If that's a thing, it should indeed be fixed, because that seems like a bug. I've never had that happen to me, though.

However, the rest of the boss isn't nearly as much of a problem as you're making it out to be. You can fight the Great Depths Worm with only lightbulbs, which you can literally get hundreds of before day 5 (it's one of the ways I amass rot for fertilizing large quantities tufts and bushes early on, by getting hundreds of lightbulbs and making Toadstool rot them). There's no "mass item loss" requirement. Lightbulbs are free in the caves and you won't even need a stack. I believe this is the intended method of fighting it. 

If a player who's too inexperienced to know how to fight this thing takes on Deerclops with only a logsuit and a ham bat or spear, they're gonna die to that too, and it comes at around the same time. It also destroys your base if you stay in it when it arrives.

The fact that getting vored will almost instakill you is fine since that's an extremely easy attack to avoid (literally just run away from it, maybe after dropping a lightbulb or two to distract it) and very obvious that it should be avoided. It could maybe use a little tweaking to be less punishing as Wanda, and the thing you showed where it'll grab you when you're not directly under/over its mouth should be fixed, but the core concept of the miniboss is fine and is fun to fight. I do dislike that it destroys non-food items, too, but anything with a spoilage timer should indeed be gone if it eats them.

This is just another new challenge people are gonna have to learn. People want more interesting gameplay than "hold F, run away, repeat"? New stuff brings new difficulties. 

"The fact that getting vored will almost instakill you is fine since that's an extremely easy attack to avoid"

What about to adjust bearger and deerclops damage from currently to 1k if you think this design is ok? Bearger and deerclops is more easier to avoid than giant worm voring for me. Let us make old giant be more "challenge" please, that would be more fun!

[ADM]

To be upset about someone laughing at them but not showing any form of civism yourself in discussions… is laughable.

[DegenerateFurry]

12 minutes ago, Steorra said:

"The fact that getting vored will almost instakill you is fine since that's an extremely easy attack to avoid"

What about to adjust bearger and deerclops damage from currently to 1k if you think this design is ok? Bearger and deerclops is more easier to avoid than giant worm voring for me. Let us make old giant be more "challenge" please, that would be more fun!

Let's not change old bosses for no reason when players are generally fine with how they are. 

Do you have a problem with the fact that if you kill Klaus's deer (which can easily be done by mistake as Wendy or certain other characters), he'll enrage, become nigh impossible to kill, and will easily delete you? I'm gonna guess not. 

Do you have an issue with the fact that every stage 3 Shadow Chesspiece will absolutely shred a player who only has a single logsuit, some of them with attacks that are nearly impossible to avoid? No? Good, you shouldn't, because you shouldn't be fighting bosses so woefully underprepared. 

In terms of difficulty, the Great Depths Worm is about on varg level. I bet you that a new player would die far more easily to a varg than to it or Deerclops if they were to encounter one.

Unless, y'know, they did the sensible thing and just ran away in the open-world survival game instead of fighting an unrecognized threat when completely unprepared, which is an option for vargs, seasonal bosses, and the Great Depths Worm.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Let's not change old bosses for no reason when players are generally fine with how they are. 

Do you have a problem with the fact that if you kill Klaus's deer (which can easily be done by mistake as Wendy or certain other characters), he'll enrage, become nigh impossible to kill, and will easily delete you? I'm gonna guess not. 

Do you have an issue with the fact that every stage 3 Shadow Chesspiece will absolutely shred a player who only has a single logsuit, some of them with attacks that are nearly impossible to avoid? No? Good, you shouldn't, because you shouldn't be fighting bosses so woefully underprepared. 

In terms of difficulty, the Great Depths Worm is about on varg level. I bet you that a new player would die far more easily to a varg than to it or Deerclops if they were to encounter one.

Unless, y'know, they did the sensible thing and just ran away in the open-world survival game instead of fighting an unrecognized threat when completely unprepared, which is an option for vargs, seasonal bosses, and the Great Depths Worm.

I also have no problem with only 1 log-suit when I facing day 26 giant worm. 
We should know "it's ok for me" is not an evidence to prove the boss design is OK.

[SilverSpoon]

54 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I don't know how you're getting grabbed by it when you're not directly in the landing zone of its head. If that's a thing, it should indeed be fixed, because that seems like a bug. I've never had that happen to me, though.

However, the rest of the boss isn't nearly as much of a problem as you're making it out to be. You can fight the Great Depths Worm with only lightbulbs, which you can literally get hundreds of before day 5 (it's one of the ways I amass rot for fertilizing large quantities tufts and bushes early on, by getting hundreds of lightbulbs and making Toadstool rot them). There's no "mass item loss" requirement. Lightbulbs are free in the caves and you won't even need a stack. I believe this is the intended method of fighting it. 

As you can see from the video, the Great Depths Worm's swallowing collision is ambiguous. In my experiment, I also had an InstaKill combo where I was swallowed while I was knockback and unable to move.
Apart from swallowing, when fighting this boss, you can receive a ton of damage which is incomparable to Deerclops at once due to stun lock and knockback combos.

And as you already know, this Big boi will destroy any item, no matter how valuable it is.

I would argue that these are too heavy and broken as "punishment for mistake" just once. No matter how good a player you are, if you never make a mistake when playing, what's the point of playing the game? Even if you're used to the Great Depths Worm, it would be a tragedy if your pals died unreasonably and your items were destroyed, and it would cause cracks in multiplayer.

54 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

f a player who's too inexperienced to know how to fight this thing takes on Deerclops with only a logsuit and a ham bat or spear, they're gonna die to that too, and it comes at around the same time. It also destroys your base if you stay in it when it arrives.

The Great Depths Worm is far more troublesome than Deerclops or previous mobs when it comes to destroying bases.

Deerclops
+ Only comes once per season
+ Spawning can be controlled with hostile flares
+ Only destroys one structure per attack, she leaves after 5-6 structures are destroyed
+ Has 1 minute to spawn
+ Player character has unique warning quote
+ Can leave base at any time by using Telelocator Staff
- Spawns away from player character

Great Depths Worm
- Finally comes randomly every 6-11 per days
- Spawning cannot be controlled
- Destroys wide range of structures endlessly just by moving, even swallowing and destroying dropped items
- Has 30 seconds to spawn
- Cannot use Telelocator Staff underground, can't move away from base except by walking away
+ Always spawns at player character's feet

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, Steorra said:

I also have no problem with only 1 log-suit when I facing day 26 giant worm. 
We should know "it's ok for me" is not an evidence to prove the boss design is OK.

There are only three genuine problems with this boss.

1. It shouldn't delete non-food items.

2. It should give Wandas an opportunity to quickly use an Ageless Watch before dying since it leaves other characters at a tiny amount of HP.

3. That glitch your video showed.

Only the first two are balance issues. The second only applies to one character.

Everything else about the boss is absolutely fine, and no, I don't care that players who do asinine things like trying to circle it as if it's Plantera from Terraria are struggling. That is simply a skill issue: a need on their behalf to adjust their strategy to deal with a challenge. 

[SilverSpoon]

As an additional note, for Asians people like me and Steorra (I guess from the video), there is almost always lag when playing with players or server on far away foreign.

Under those conditions, there is currently no option to fight the Great Depths Worm. It is more like griefing, where you feed the Great Depths Worm with the resources in server.

Don't starve together has had some instakills in the past, but there were ways to deal with them even under lag. FireRing of Dragonfly prevents it from raging. Toadstool prevents Sporecap from being left unattended. Spin of Celestial Champion 2 and Gestalts of Celestial Champion 3 have a set interval between moves. But for Great Depths Worm, there is currently no answer other than "don't fight under lag."

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

There are only three genuine problems with this boss.

1. It shouldn't delete non-food items.

2. It should give Wandas an opportunity to quickly use an Ageless Watch before dying since it leaves other characters at a tiny amount of HP.

3. That glitch your video showed.

Only the first two are balance issues. The second only applies to one character.

Everything else about the boss is absolutely fine, and no, I don't care that players who do asinine things like trying to circle it as if it's Plantera from Terraria are struggling. That is simply a skill issue: a need on their behalf to adjust their strategy to deal with a challenge. 

We all have different balance idea about the boss. I won't argue with you because you have your reason. But I still don't agree that the giant worm is balance and "good design" for current game even I could fight with it with only 1 log-suit and without any feeding.

Especially the AOE effect when the worm head in/out of the ground. That's a huge balance problem when you trying to no-feeding method to fight it. 

Not every area has enough items to feed it.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

-

Yeah, deleting items is bad except for food ones, and they ought to fix the swallowing hitbox if it's really that bad (I've never noticed it doing that myself, though). 

The rest of it is fine and is actually cool, though. Getting punished for bad positioning and movement by getting knocked around like a pingpong ball? I like it, and the damage from it isn't that high. A pack of hounds plus a Varg will shred you faster if you move and position yourself wrong, and you'll have a harder time against an Ewecus solo without a beefalo than you ever would against this thing.