Do we have a name for the Shadow Eye In the portal?

[ZeRoboButler]

I was getting into the lore of the ancients again and I couldn't seem to find much information on the Eye or as charlie has called it "the mirror". Aside from the implications of charlie calling it a mirror or eluding to it in the play, Do we have any established name similar to how Altar is the presumed name of the "moon"?

I mean we obviously see it within the murals of the ancients how its influence seemed to lead to the destruction of the ancient civilization, but as far as I know I don't think we have a way to translate the weird text on it.

[Waywarbler]

It doesn't have an official name yet as far as I know, only being referred to as "Them" and, as you said, "The Mirror" in the stage plays.

Though somebody (forgot who) theorized "Constant" might actually be its name, since it's kind of the opposite of "Alter".

[Evelo]

Them.

[Maxposting]

I had reread the stage play right now, and I'm left pondering.

Spoiler

Is everything starting with Act 1 Scene 3 meant to be set inside the Constant, as a retelling of events after the San Francisco earthquake?
Maxwell is considered the King who can reshape the world while the Doll's mask is already cracked, however Charlie had no thematic shadow influence back then (until she was, well, in the Constant, full of shadows)
What intriques me is the confrontation in Act 2 Scene 1, which seemingly results in Charlie dying (and being revived in the next scene), so I assume she previously activated the Ancient Gateway, met the entity and Maxwell summoned the Fuelweaver to close the gateway linking to the realm where the entity is trapped (by Maxwell), sorta-not-intentionally killing her and running away?
Afterwards the entity manages to revive her, giving her their power with her becoming the Darkness killer, Maxwell protecting himself by hiding with the throne until Wilson frees him and Charlie takes his place as the Queen, yadda yadda, we know this.
My point is mainly:
Was part of the deal between the entity and Maxwell that he would help overthrow Alter, and instead he took the power for himself?
And while the entity lacked power and presence in Constant, Alter started regaining influence he lost after the Ancients strayed away from him, and after the Gateway is reactivated (aka Fuelweaver gets killed), Alter cracks his shell to continue the war of influence, the RoT arc happens and then Charlie attempts to reconnect the entity to Constant after fixing the Gateway.

I would call the entity Darkness or Them - with the Them term still including the Shadows who are a shattered part of the entity?
The parallels between Darkness (refering to the leading eye entity) with Them and Alter with his Gestalts are there!
I remember some people called it Metheus, however the connection on who Metheus is meant to be is very unclear.

[marshyds]

it should be called Michael, methinks

[Cassielu]

No. Even the mirror could be refer to another person.

1 hour ago, Maxposting said:

so I assume she previously activated the Ancient Gateway, met the entity

But Ancient Gateway was broken at that time, if the broken gateway can still link to shadow eye entity, then there's no need for Charlie to fix it.

[ZeRoboButler]

7 hours ago, Evelo said:

Them.

 

7 hours ago, Maxposting said:

I had reread the stage play right now, and I'm left pondering.

  Reveal hidden contents

Is everything starting with Act 1 Scene 3 meant to be set inside the Constant, as a retelling of events after the San Francisco earthquake?
Maxwell is considered the King who can reshape the world while the Doll's mask is already cracked, however Charlie had no thematic shadow influence back then (until she was, well, in the Constant, full of shadows)
What intriques me is the confrontation in Act 2 Scene 1, which seemingly results in Charlie dying (and being revived in the next scene), so I assume she previously activated the Ancient Gateway, met the entity and Maxwell summoned the Fuelweaver to close the gateway linking to the realm where the entity is trapped (by Maxwell), sorta-not-intentionally killing her and running away?
Afterwards the entity manages to revive her, giving her their power with her becoming the Darkness killer, Maxwell protecting himself by hiding with the throne until Wilson frees him and Charlie takes his place as the Queen, yadda yadda, we know this.
My point is mainly:
Was part of the deal between the entity and Maxwell that he would help overthrow Alter, and instead he took the power for himself?
And while the entity lacked power and presence in Constant, Alter started regaining influence he lost after the Ancients strayed away from him, and after the Gateway is reactivated (aka Fuelweaver gets killed), Alter cracks his shell to continue the war of influence, the RoT arc happens and then Charlie attempts to reconnect the entity to Constant after fixing the Gateway.

I would call the entity Darkness or Them - with the Them term still including the Shadows who are a shattered part of the entity?
The parallels between Darkness (refering to the leading eye entity) with Them and Alter with his Gestalts are there!
I remember some people called it Metheus, however the connection on who Metheus is meant to be is very unclear.

I was under the impression that "Them" was some sort of sweeping name or term for the entities of immense power within the realm of the constant, things like Alter, the Gnaw and whatever force was at play in the forge. It seems like there are various different domains that some entities have taken a liking to and it is possible that Alter and "The mirror/Shadow Entity" (Or... The dreaded Michael @marshyds) are at odds because of some obsession with the main land, or perhaps there could be another reason entirely. 

In terms of the play, I think that the cracks may be a sort of "seeds of doubt" situation. gonna go out on a very speculatory limb, but based on when they grew up and how Winona treated her sister, its possible that Charlie may have had some insecurities that the "mirror" was attempting to exploit. The cracks that came before I could say with some confidence are likely a way of portraying doubts in herself making it in the world on her own without Winona, knowing the bond between siblings and how supportive Winona was (the play possibly portraying her level of overprotectiveness with the "iron armor for the fragile doll"). The first crack was possibly her feeling that initial "others think I can't make it on my own" thought, with additional events being further cracks in the porcelain. 

Knowing that, perhaps the shadows are a lot scarier than I thought, they seem to be excellent manipulators that promise a lot, I mean heck look at maxwell... a crummy magician who wants to make a name for himself, as well as power? A person with something to prove could be just as concerning as a person with too much ego (maxwell), seems to me like charlie has a lot of ambition, like she is trying to do what those who came before her could not. 

I'm beginning to wonder, how did the codex fall into maxwells hands, and who put all of this in motion in the first place? (I'll stop myself here as if I continue to theorize I'll sound like an "always sunny" episode... my god I might just call the Shadow Eye "pepe silvia" lol )

[Maxposting]

7 hours ago, Cassielu said:

But Ancient Gateway was broken at that time, if the broken gateway can still link to shadow eye entity, then there's no need for Charlie to fix it.

I assume it gave all the power it would have used to connect to Constant to Charlie.

[Maxposting]

1 hour ago, ZeRoboButler said:

I was under the impression that "Them" was some sort of sweeping name or term for the entities of immense power within the realm of the constant, things like Alter, the Gnaw and whatever force was at play in the forge. It seems like there are various different domains that some entities have taken a liking to and it is possible that Alter and "The mirror/Shadow Entity" (Or... The dreaded Michael @marshyds) are at odds because of some obsession with the main land, or perhaps there could be another reason entirely. 

Originally (like before 2018ish), people speculated for the shadow creatures to be Them, since there was no knowledge of Darkness/Shadow Entity or Alter, and however it's unclear if this is an actual retcon or the "eldritch gods is Them" part had been written from the start.

I still think the shadows might be Them (the Shadow Entity) , or at least a part of one of Them (if They is supposed to the umbrella term for eldritch forces including Darkness, Alter, the Gnaw and other, being still part of the Darkness).

I think what's happening with shadows and Charlie having more will in the constant is due to the lack of influence Darkness has over the constant, including its own "pieces"/power left over inside the Constant gaining more influence (during the Ancients' worship), still separated from the main part of Darkness.

Right now, I don't believe Them (umbrella term) have a favourite Gate Realm, but rather they require more power to be able to fully cross between realms due to the sheer scale of Them. (Power the Darkness currently lacks.) Gnaw and Alter themselves definitely cannot physically fit through the Gateways, so I think the Darkness is utilizing its fractured-ness to cross over at least a part of itself from the Realm it was trapped in by Maxwell.

Gnaw doesn't appear to be trapped in the Elder Bog, so I assume it merely feasts in the world it has current presence in? Probably this is also a way how "power/influence" is gained. (Or he's gaining power to leave the Elder Bog if he's trapped, though I doubt it.)

I don't think The Pit (location Forge takes place in) has an actual Them entity as of now, as Pugna seems to despise Them to the point of rallying his army to kill survivors who aren't trying to bring Them to him.

I might go over the general timeline from this perspective with some headcanon-theories (i.e. Darkness is a fractured parallel to Alter) later and how it would explain some confusion surrounding it.

[Dr.Webber]

We don’t know, but I’ve gathered information  Based on skill trees and Maxwell’s Moonbound  skin and I think I figured out it’s title everybody’s been calling them the shadows But Based off the information I got

as alter us to the moon

This is too the darkness either that or the constant

[viblym]

Metheus feels most likely as it is the name that we've gotten hints at from Ancient Fuelweaver mentioning things like "curse their name!" and "metheus...". Most importantly I believe the shadow eye is "Metheus" because of the stageplay concept art for the Mirror, being named "Meth" as a shorthand for Metheus.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, viblym said:

Metheus feels most likely as it is the name that we've gotten hints at from Ancient Fuelweaver mentioning things like "curse their name!" and "metheus...". Most importantly I believe the shadow eye is "Metheus" because of the stageplay concept art for the Mirror, being named "Meth" as a shorthand for Metheus.

The thing is that the mirror doesnt need to be the eye-shadow-god but the entity that is possessing charlie, the torch bearer from the murals

[Maxposting]

14 hours ago, arubaro said:

The thing is that the mirror doesnt need to be the eye-shadow-god but the entity that is possessing charlie, the torch bearer from the murals

Except there is no confirmation the torch bearer is even alive, furthermore the shadow entity is the only being in the actual canon who fits the mirror's character, that being control over some force that got stolen by Maxwell, a clear connection to Charlie (her being shadow-y and taking the role of Darkness) and having Charlie take back the throne.

The torch bearer directly opposed the shadows before being killed, and it would be confusing why would they would want to retake the shadow throne (assuming the thulecite throne ends up becoming the shadow one) unless they were somehow revived (just like Charlie), however this still directly contradicts their original character.

This also sorta takes away from Charlie's character should the Darkness part of her somehow be the torch bearer, who, for the plot to function, would have to be completely brainwashed by the shadows to the point of it not mattering whether they were the torch bearer.

The theory ends up in the same location with just a more confusing detour and repeating of the same plot elements. It's plausible, yeah, but I don't think it's the case.

[arubaro]

23 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

Except there is no confirmation the torch bearer is even alive, furthermore the shadow entity is the only being in the actual canon who fits the mirror's character, that being control over some force that got stolen by Maxwell, a clear connection to Charlie (her being shadow-y and taking the role of Darkness) and having Charlie take back the throne.

The torch bearer directly opposed the shadows before being killed, and it would be confusing why would they would want to retake the shadow throne (assuming the thulecite throne ends up becoming the shadow one) unless they were somehow revived (just like Charlie), however this still directly contradicts their original character.

This also sorta takes away from Charlie's character should the Darkness part of her somehow be the torch bearer, who, for the plot to function, would have to be completely brainwashed by the shadows to the point of it not mattering whether they were the torch bearer.

The theory ends up in the same location with just a more confusing detour and repeating of the same plot elements. It's plausible, yeah, but I don't think it's the case.

No? The eye in the portal is in their own dimension and cant interact with the charlie... why would be them the one possesing charlie if charlie is trying to interact with them by fixing the gateway? Makes little sense

[Maxposting]

40 minutes ago, arubaro said:

No? The eye in the portal is in their own dimension and cant interact with the charlie... why would be them the one possesing charlie if charlie is trying to interact with them by fixing the gateway? Makes little sense

On 9/28/2024 at 5:27 AM, Maxposting said:

I assume she previously activated the Ancient Gateway, met the entity and Maxwell summoned the Fuelweaver to close the gateway linking to the realm where the entity is trapped (by Maxwell), sorta-not-intentionally killing her and running away?
Afterwards the entity manages to revive her, giving her their power with her becoming the Darkness killer, Maxwell protecting himself by hiding with the throne until Wilson frees him and Charlie takes his place as the Queen, yadda yadda

There is no evidence the entity is completely unable to influence the constant and be in contact with Charlie, actually contrary with how the Ancients were decimated while the entity was only temporarily connected through the gateway, while Shadows still control the ruins without its presence to this day. I think it can communicate and influence Constant via Shadows even if said gateway is closed, and Charlie is partially the entity herself (because Shadows are, so by extension she is).

Charlie is trying to "fix" the mirror, I assume this means allowing more contact with the Constant (and the Shadows, who are probably part or carry power of the entity), it matches with her attempts at fixing the gateway.

Furthermore I don't think the shadow entity is overriding her will, her current Queen form is a mix of both of shadow and Charlie, and I believe she would have cooperated out of her free will, as she was defensive of the mirror even before her death. There were differences between the two parts before she merged (see: A new reign cinematic where the shadow part tortures Wilson), however the human part still took the throne before finally merging.

[Echsrick]

its they/them
the moon/shadows

[Szczuku]

Good to know that the 'crucial' lore reveal placed in a yt trailer description Klei did in 2021 to save face after their 'Return of Them' content/story arc had a suspicious lack of Them in it is still causing problems with the dst lore.

The shadow entity is called Them, the lunar entity is called Alter and I'm refusing to accept the 'They were here all along!' bs the eye of the storm tried to pull off.

[Well-met]

meteus? idk lol

klei is taking so long with their lore that people are just gonna forget / not care eventually.

 

[Echsrick]

3 hours ago, Well-met said:

meteus? idk lol

klei is taking so long with their lore that people are just gonna forget / not care eventually.

 

i honestly forgot about meteus, and i dit that weird puzzle thing and got the cane skin...like who was that again? i know hes the final boss of fire emblem 1 and 3 but i dont think he got anything to do with dontstarve, unless it turns out that the dontstarve meteus is alsol a shadow dragon...in wich case the eye lid we saw on that gateway is the eye of a dragon.....reaching for lore in a game like this were its honestly in game not realy alot been told of lore like at all....like what lore can we realy get from ingame without those mini movies?