Can't wait for Klei to announce character re-re-reworks after skilltrees are done by year 2028

[Gashzer]

Character reworks and skilltrees have been far better than any content updates.

Different characters fundamentally change how you approach the same gameplay content. Creating a fresh experience with the same content, character reworks and skilltree are a win for klei.

[RozeMeteor]

8 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

By several trillion miles, the most frequent "criticism" of skill trees is - and I don't know how you can even pretend this isn't the case, because doing so is like pretending the sky is chartreuse - that Klei is doing character updates (refreshes/skill trees) "when they could be doing <insert something else>". That translates to "I want Klei to be making things I want!".

Sometimes ignorance is a blessing or a curse isn't ? Pal look at your words, you are defending nosense there, Klei has a lot of good point's and bad ones and it's alright but wanting to claim that every argument thrown here is in favor to add what we want is just being ignorant and shallow, you can't deny the powercreep even if YOU want to, they made skill trees and the betas arrived one after another, they received feedback and a lot of things could been made better in terms of balance and fun yet the final product was just alright, now the question is.. Those will be adressed in future ? or they will just keep tunning updates without adressing said powercreep because forumdudes with 1000 hours+ keep soaping the problem cuz they like the game, if you can't bear reading those type of arguments just go touch some grass, forums are made to discuss and argue, we can make the game better together and DST is a fun game on my view, one of the few that i play for long periods of time yet not all of it are roses. I'm really curious to see what you opnion will be after Warly gain his skill tree, after all people only want their will to be made by your own words.

[Mysterious box]

11 hours ago, Jorvalt said:

Personally I think Wurt's skill tree was kind of mid. Not bad, but just kind of boring. Most of it is just numbers increases, and none of it actually changes the way you play the game in any kind of meaningful way.

And then we have the real stinkers:

• Slippery Hide, which actually could be good (at 2 points 50 extra health for 100 wetness? hell yeah) but there's not any great ways to just get a lot of wetness. You can jump off a boat a couple times in prep for a boss but then how do you get more wetness mid-fight? A water balloon gives you 20 which is effectively 10 health, so you're really just better off chugging potatoes or something.
• Hydrous Healing is an absolute joke. 1 hp/8s at 100 wetness (at rank 2). Even if you doubled that it'd be underpowered.
• Sensible Swamp Fighter is entirely pointless. Merms are expendable, you don't care if they die. Especially if you're running Shadow affinity, where you want them to die. It's like no one at Klei actually considered how the character they designed plays.
• Swamp Pathfinder is equally pointless. Cobblestone is not very hard to make. Investing a point in this for sort of cheaper cobblestone roads is not worth it.
• Sated sovereign seems okay but is just not worth the point investment. Making the king's hunger meter bigger doesn't really do much, and you only get a 15% hunger reduction at 3 points.

This means a good like 1/3 of her skills are just DoA and you never bother actually using them. And the remaining skills feel mandatory but also don't really change how you play Wurt at all.

That's a fair opinion on it but that comes from the fact her skill tree wasn't trying to fix a problem with her it just tried to add additions to her without altering how you play her too much since she's already a complete package whereas something like Woodie's tree is almost entirely dedicated to fixing him leaving little room for customization.

[Mike23Ua]

11 hours ago, Uedo said:

I think this is the problem. Dst is a game you play, that's it. It's nothing else. No 'fan service' here. It's not a part of your identity and it's telling how much this impacts your life :/

I don’t really have much of a “life” I don’t have a girlfriend, I don’t go out anywhere, I sit at home playing video games most the day while taking care of my 60 yr old disabled father who was hit by a truck when I was a little boy. There’s a lot of father & son type of activities (like sports) that me and my father only got to enjoy through playing video games because his body was physically unable to get out and do them in real life.

So before you judge someone because you feel they play too many video games you should know that for me the iconic “EA Sports: It’s in the Game!” Scream means just as much to me and my dad as you doing really well in a physical sport.

With that said- I meant that Klei spent far too much time on “fan service” for Wormwood players, while the rest of the games content felt like it desired more. Wormwoods skill tree is a perk blend mess of I don’t even know what to call all this- While Woodies only really fixed problems he had with his core character and gave a tiny addition or two with his cane and helmet.

But… years after Woodies skill tree we get new content where characters can craft furniture, and… I’m pretty sure base builders would’ve enjoyed being able to use Woodie to earlier craft wooden structures.

His perk to need 1 less log to craft a plank is so absolutely horrid..

And don’t even get me started on how much I hate Wilson’s skill tree.

Wilsons Funko pop doll comes with an exclusive Tesla coil lantern skin… and yet instead of letting Wilson’s Torch skill tree extend to lanterns like it probably should have or allowing him to make Tesla Trees (a scrapped tree type from the earlier days of DS) 

They squander that by making his skill tree as boring and as basic as it possibly can be.

[Gi-Go]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t really have much of a “life” I don’t have a girlfriend, I don’t go out anywhere, I sit at home playing video games most the day while taking care of my 60 yr old disabled father who was hit by a disease truck when I was a little boy. There’s a lot of father & son type of activities (like sports) that me and my father only got to enjoy through playing video games because his body was physically unable to get out and do them in real life.

So before you judge someone because you feel they play too many video games you should know that for me the iconic “EA Sports: It’s in the Game!” Scream means just as much to me and my dad as you doing really well in a physical sport.

Who asked? 

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, RozeMeteor said:

Sometimes ignorance is a blessing or a curse isn't ? Pal look at your words, you are defending nonsense there, Klei has a lot of good point's and bad ones and it's alright but wanting to claim that every argument thrown here is in favor to add what we want is just being ignorant and shallow, you can't deny the powercreep even if YOU want to, they made skill trees and the betas arrived one after another, they received feedback and a lot of things could been made better in terms of balance and fun yet the final product was just alright, now the question is.. Those will be addressed in future ? or they will just keep tuning updates without addressing said powercreep because forumdudes with 1000 hours+ keep soaping the problem cuz they like the game, if you can't bear reading those type of arguments just go touch some grass, forums are made to discuss and argue, we can make the game better together and DST is a fun game on my view, one of the few that i play for long periods of time yet not all of it are roses. I'm really curious to see what you opinion will be after Warly gain his skill tree, after all people only want their will to be made by your own words.

I might be a Warly main, but I regularly play most characters. Let's take a look at what the skill trees have added.

Wormwood's another one that I play, and I've always played him in unusual ways, which is why I'm so fond of his skill tree. It makes combat Wormwood a much more viable playstyle, and if you take the mushroom planter perks, you don't even need to farm to provide veggies for a whole server! You can just speedrun setting up twelve mushroom planters in a cave (I've done that by day six) and regularly harvest them, allowing you to go much further from the base and letting you focus on stuff other than trying to make as many giant crops as possible.

Woodie's skill tree made the weremoose much more useful for combat. He used to seriously struggle against the level 3 Shadow Rook because of how you had to abuse ocean borders to cancel your charge, but now that he can just freely control his charges, he's actually one of the best for speedrunning the Shadow Pieces - you just have your Wolfgang or Walter get the pieces together before night 1 while you get the materials for a weremoose idol and you're good (as long as you don't get hit too much). The longer timers mean you're also far less likely to run into the issue of turning back into Woodie while a boss is chasing you (which is a good way to get one-shot against the Shadow Rook since you have no armor equipped when you transform back and transforming takes long enough that it's almost certain to hit you before you can do anything). Also, he now has the option of, with a lot of set-up and resource gathering, using Treeguards offensively against certain bosses (such as Toadstool/Misery Toadstool). 

Wigfrid's new spear dash gives her the ability to counteract a good portion of Fuelweaver's BS for relatively cheap, which I certainly appreciate, and her battle rond gives us a whole new way to do combat instead of just kiting everything. She also has more crowd control capability than she had before due to that spear dash, making her a more well-rounded combat character. She also can use beefalo effectively now, although I do still feel we should've gotten a beefalo taming character rather than just giving Wigfrid of all people perks related to it. I feel like they did a pretty good job on her overall.

Then there's Willow, who went from something mostly picked by people who wanted to grief Klei servers to a character worth playing due to her powerful fire magic and the buffs to Bernie. I'll admit I don't play her very often, but I certainly see her picked and seriously played far more than I used to. 

Winona, as well, got a lot from her skill tree. The ability to move around her contraptions saves her a ton on resources and makes using them in day-to-day situations something you can actually do without oodles of prep time, and then there's the fact that she literally got Wagstaff's telebrella. Being able to manually target your catapults is nice, too - it means you don't need a big, complicated setup and a Wickerbottom to farm feathers, and you also don't have to fake attacks to start farming mobs with catapults anymore. 

Wilson, despite what a lot of people like to pretend, has always been the "basic character", and it's not necessarily bad that he stays basic. Even so, he got some meaningful things out of his skill tree. The best are his refinement perks, like the ability to craft an iridescent gem (which lets you completely skip the moonstone event if you just rush Dragonfly instead and get a head start on the lunar questline). The torch toss one is also nice if you want to rush the ruins scienceless since it means you have a budget lantern. He's basically a speedrun character if you're into that sort of thing and still a good one to learn the game with if you're not.

Wurt's skill tree adds some nice quality-of-life stuff, but it does also give her a tankier playstyle than she'd normally have with her wetness armor. By using a fashion melon, you can get around the fact that wetness drops way too quickly for those perks to otherwise be worth it - a fashion melon keeps your wetness at about 80 or so, which means you actually do get use out of the perks, and she can just abandon ship a couple times to get her wetness up to full. Wear a marble or thulecite suit and your wetness armor will let you take close to enough hits from Deerclops to break your armor before your HP even starts taking damage. 

Then there's Wolfgang, who's the only one I feel they didn't really get creative enough with. Even now, nobody uses the gym because its increase to the mightiness meter isn't enough to make it worth using instead of just lifting a gembell or marbell before fighting. Throwing dumbbells is convenient, but the fire and ice bells are kind of a waste to make (it's just way easier to use an ice staff if you're doing something like Crab King). The work-related critical hit chance perks are actually pretty nice. His planar perks are kind of boring, but they serve the purpose of keeping him in his place as the easy mode double damage character. 

Also, there's no such thing as powercreep because Wolfgang has existed since the early days of Don't Starve and originated as the easy mode character who had double damage for basically free, and while they've nerfed him since then, he's kept that cheap double damage the whole time. Willow's fire witch skill tree doesn't even bring her up to Wolfgang's level, and none of the other skill tree characters surpass him in terms of ease of use even now - while some like Winona or Wurt might be able to out-DPS him, they have to spend a lot more time getting to that point than he does.

[RozeMeteor]

19 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I might be a Warly main, but I regularly play most characters. Let's take a look at what the skill trees have added.

Wormwood's another one that I play, and I've always played him in unusual ways, which is why I'm so fond of his skill tree. It makes combat Wormwood a much more viable playstyle, and if you take the mushroom planter perks, you don't even need to farm to provide veggies for a whole server! You can just speedrun setting up twelve mushroom planters in a cave (I've done that by day six) and regularly harvest them, allowing you to go much further from the base and letting you focus on stuff other than trying to make as many giant crops as possible.

Woodie's skill tree made the weremoose much more useful for combat. He used to seriously struggle against the level 3 Shadow Rook because of how you had to abuse ocean borders to cancel your charge, but now that he can just freely control his charges, he's actually one of the best for speedrunning the Shadow Pieces - you just have your Wolfgang or Walter get the pieces together before night 1 while you get the materials for a weremoose idol and you're good (as long as you don't get hit too much). The longer timers mean you're also far less likely to run into the issue of turning back into Woodie while a boss is chasing you (which is a good way to get one-shot against the Shadow Rook since you have no armor equipped when you transform back and transforming takes long enough that it's almost certain to hit you before you can do anything). Also, he now has the option of, with a lot of set-up and resource gathering, using Treeguards offensively against certain bosses (such as Toadstool/Misery Toadstool). 

Wigfrid's new spear dash gives her the ability to counteract a good portion of Fuelweaver's BS for relatively cheap, which I certainly appreciate, and her battle rond gives us a whole new way to do combat instead of just kiting everything. She also has more crowd control capability than she had before due to that spear dash, making her a more well-rounded combat character. She also can use beefalo effectively now, although I do still feel we should've gotten a beefalo taming character rather than just giving Wigfrid of all people perks related to it. I feel like they did a pretty good job on her overall.

Then there's Willow, who went from something mostly picked by people who wanted to grief Klei servers to a character worth playing due to her powerful fire magic and the buffs to Bernie. I'll admit I don't play her very often, but I certainly see her picked and seriously played far more than I used to. 

Winona, as well, got a lot from her skill tree. The ability to move around her contraptions saves her a ton on resources and makes using them in day-to-day situations something you can actually do without oodles of prep time, and then there's the fact that she literally got Wagstaff's telebrella. Being able to manually target your catapults is nice, too - it means you don't need a big, complicated setup and a Wickerbottom to farm feathers, and you also don't have to fake attacks to start farming mobs with catapults anymore. 

Wilson, despite what a lot of people like to pretend, has always been the "basic character", and it's not necessarily bad that he stays basic. Even so, he got some meaningful things out of his skill tree. The best are his refinement perks, like the ability to craft an iridescent gem (which lets you completely skip the moonstone event if you just rush Dragonfly instead and get a head start on the lunar questline). The torch toss one is also nice if you want to rush the ruins scienceless since it means you have a budget lantern. He's basically a speedrun character if you're into that sort of thing and still a good one to learn the game with if you're not.

Wurt's skill tree adds some nice quality-of-life stuff, but it does also give her a tankier playstyle than she'd normally have with her wetness armor. By using a fashion melon, you can get around the fact that wetness drops way too quickly for those perks to otherwise be worth it - a fashion melon keeps your wetness at about 80 or so, which means you actually do get use out of the perks, and she can just abandon ship a couple times to get her wetness up to full. Wear a marble or thulecite suit and your wetness armor will let you take close to enough hits from Deerclops to break your armor before your HP even starts taking damage. 

Then there's Wolfgang, who's the only one I feel they didn't really get creative enough with. Even now, nobody uses the gym because its increase to the mightiness meter isn't enough to make it worth using instead of just lifting a gembell or marbell before fighting. Throwing dumbbells is convenient, but the fire and ice bells are kind of a waste to make (it's just way easier to use an ice staff if you're doing something like Crab King). The work-related critical hit chance perks are actually pretty nice. His planar perks are kind of boring, but they serve the purpose of keeping him in his place as the easy mode double damage character. 

Also, there's no such thing as powercreep because Wolfgang has existed since the early days of Don't Starve and originated as the easy mode character who had double damage for basically free, and while they've nerfed him since then, he's kept that cheap double damage the whole time. Willow's fire witch skill tree doesn't even bring her up to Wolfgang's level, and none of the other skill tree characters surpass him in terms of ease of use even now - while some like Winona or Wurt might be able to out-DPS him, they have to spend a lot more time getting to that point than he does.

I alredy knew all of these points and apreciate some of them, i don't think many of these points justify some characters being less thinked out than others, the band aid idea remains, but you know what ? i'm happy other people can have fun with them, i will not push this discursion futher cuz i guess we are just punching knives at that point, still hats out to you to argue well.

[Jorvalt]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

That's a fair opinion on it but that comes from the fact her skill tree wasn't trying to fix a problem with her it just tried to add additions to her without altering how you play her too much since she's already a complete package whereas something like Woodie's tree is almost entirely dedicated to fixing him leaving little room for customization.

Yeah, but I would've liked more skilltrees that actually give you options that change a character's playstyle. So that way even if you have two of the same survivor you might play a different way from each other.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Jorvalt said:

Yeah, but I would've liked more skilltrees that actually give you options that change a character's playstyle. So that way even if you have two of the same survivor you might play a different way from each other.

This was only really going to be possible if they did this pre refresh since giving such meaningful changes would have made characters far too good.

[Echsrick]

skill trees i actualy like, like they mostly feel good...wich is funny given the rift update stuff sure dont feel so good and finished

[Jorvalt]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

This was only really going to be possible if they did this pre refresh since giving such meaningful changes would have made characters far too good.

It doesn't have to be things that make a character more powerful necessarily, just something that changes the way you might approach things. Like, the only thing that kind of does that for Wurt is the itchcraft skills, which is alright but it pretty much becomes a mandatory pick anyway because everything else is so basic.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Jorvalt said:

It doesn't have to be things that make a character more powerful necessarily, just something that changes the way you might approach things. Like, the only thing that kind of does that for Wurt is the itchcraft skills, which is alright but it pretty much becomes a mandatory pick anyway because everything else is so basic.

If you feel that way about itchy crafts I feel like the amphibian branch did the same regardless of how we feel about the effectiveness of it the branch does change how we interact with wetness and meaningfully impacts how we experience spring for example our wetness becomes a shield against thunderbolts.

[Uedo]

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t really have much of a “life” I don’t have a girlfriend, I don’t go out anywhere, I sit at home playing video games most the day while taking care of my 60 yr old disabled father who was hit by a truck when I was a little boy. There’s a lot of father & son type of activities (like sports) that me and my father only got to enjoy through playing video games because his body was physically unable to get out and do them in real life.

So before you judge someone because you feel they play too many video games you should know that for me the iconic “EA Sports: It’s in the Game!” Scream means just as much to me and my dad as you doing really well in a physical sport.

With that said- I meant that Klei spent far too much time on “fan service” for Wormwood players, while the rest of the games content felt like it desired more. Wormwoods skill tree is a perk blend mess of I don’t even know what to call all this- While Woodies only really fixed problems he had with his core character and gave a tiny addition or two with his cane and helmet.

But… years after Woodies skill tree we get new content where characters can craft furniture, and… I’m pretty sure base builders would’ve enjoyed being able to use Woodie to earlier craft wooden structures.

His perk to need 1 less log to craft a plank is so absolutely horrid..

And don’t even get me started on how much I hate Wilson’s skill tree.

Wilsons Funko pop doll comes with an exclusive Tesla coil lantern skin… and yet instead of letting Wilson’s Torch skill tree extend to lanterns like it probably should have or allowing him to make Tesla Trees (a scrapped tree type from the earlier days of DS) 

They squander that by making his skill tree as boring and as basic as it possibly can be.

That sounds sad but trauma-dumping on someone out of the blue is a bit much. Sorry for your situation but with the greatest of respect; Not cool.

[_zwb]

On 9/12/2024 at 6:56 AM, DegenerateFurry said:

that Klei is doing character updates (refreshes/skill trees) "when they could be doing <insert something else>". That translates to "I want Klei to be making things I want!".

This would sound like a bad argument if you simply ignore the character rework that dragged on for years. Idk about you but it's getting boring for me, I'd rather get something new.

[DegenerateFurry]

Just now, _zwb said:

This would sound like a bad argument if you simply ignore the character rework that dragged on for years before they start a second round of it. Idk about you but it's getting boring for me, I'd rather get something new.

But we have been getting something new. The rifts have added several new bosses and major changes to the world postgame.

[_zwb]

2 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

But we have been getting something new. The rifts have added several new bosses and major changes to the world postgame.

they still feel incomplete...

[DegenerateFurry]

53 minutes ago, _zwb said:

they still feel incomplete...

That's because they're not done yet. 

[Jakepeng99]

I cant wait till they are over so we can get more world updates.

 

Need more stuff for the caves and ocean.

On 9/12/2024 at 6:56 AM, DegenerateFurry said:

By several trillion miles, the most frequent "criticism" of skill trees is - and I don't know how you can even pretend this isn't the case, because doing so is like pretending the sky is chartreuse - that Klei is doing character updates (refreshes/skill trees) "when they could be doing <insert something else>". That translates to "I want Klei to be making things I want!".

Bad argument, because thats still a valid reason to critisise them. Lots of people believe places like the caves and ocean feel very fininished, and have been wanting them to have focus for ages. Same as smaller things like the moon quay stuff. Quite a lot of things pilling up on their to do list, without much being checked off due to character updates being somewhat prominent for around 5 years now.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I cant wait till they are over so we can get more world updates.

 

Need more stuff for the caves and ocean.

Introducing character refreshes version 3 where what character you play will update the world accordingly.

Spoiler

I'm joking hopefully

 

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Introducing character refreshes version 3 where what character you play will update the world accordingly.

  Hide contents

I'm joking hopefully

 

Walani will get a rework before the Moon quay or caves.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

Walani will get a rework before the Moon quay or caves.

That has some dangerous implications...

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

That has some dangerous implications...

I feel like ocean characters should only he added once the ocean and sailing is finished for everyone.

Woodlegs might come.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

I feel like ocean characters should only he added once the ocean and sailing is finished for everyone.

Woodlegs might come.

I don't think they will add anymore playable ds characters at best they might become npcs like wagstaff since they don't fit in dst

[mkemal23]

8 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Walani will get a rework before the Moon quay or caves.

Walani will get a rework before Wilson.

Mark my words.

[Jorvalt]

On 9/12/2024 at 3:41 PM, Mysterious box said:

If you feel that way about itchy crafts I feel like the amphibian branch did the same regardless of how we feel about the effectiveness of it the branch does change how we interact with wetness and meaningfully impacts how we experience spring for example our wetness becomes a shield against thunderbolts.

Mental Fluidity is OK. It's really just a two point sink to get to All-Weather Scales, which is a singular decent skill. Hydrous healing is ******* awful, and not even worth spending any points into. Slippery hide only gives you 50 more health at 100 wetness, and there's generally not a lot of ways to actively gain wetness. Jumping off a boat takes forever and requires a boat to be nearby and water balloons only give 20 wetness which equates to 10 healing. A Blood Shot literally gives more effective health per mosquito sack. So overall you have only one skill in that entire tree that I'd consider to significantly impact gameplay, and none actually change how you play the character at all.

And thunderbolts? Really? I can't tell you the last time my character actually got struck by lightning. Most of the time it's either hitting my boat or something near me.