Dragonfly rework is necessary

[Porkus]

5 hours ago, HellHeater said:

or just make lavae not have ludicrous amount of hp

100 or 200 is more than enough what the hell is 500

zingus

[Mike23Ua]

There’s a lot of “late game” items that I rarely if ever use in this game at all, and the gems especially go under-used.

I still even all these years later don’t understand what’s so important about green and orange gems.

They can’t even be placed in Winona’s Gem-er-rator to power them longer than Red, Blue or Purples- Which THOSE you can get at any time from hound waves.

Theres some “late game” crap I don’t even use in my single player worlds like the lazy explorer or whatever- But I need people to understand very clearly that teleportation with an Xbox controller is bad.. it’s one of the reasons Wortox is superior to play on PC vs Xbox..

And using orange gems on a staff that is hardly functional, isn’t worth the time or effort repeatedly fighting a 27,500 hp dragonfly boss.

In fact.. hilariously the few times I actually HAVE fought it, was to exclusively get the Broodling pet to follow me around.

Scales?? Yeah those pretty much don’t exist for single player unless your playing as Wolfgang or something.

Which brings me to Dragonfly’s dumbest mechanic of ALL (and there’s no debating against it…)

WHY the more players are fighting her and doing damage does she have a “faint” phase to allow them to get even more cheap free hits on?

This boss is pure hell for solo players, not because it’s too hard- but because without the fainting phase, reliable way of getting scales to drop and it’s high health- it just becomes a tedious fight that unless your after the scaled furnace- Isn’t worth it in my opinion.

Now if Scalemail armor actually did something.. like allow you to explore a currently nonexistent molten hot volcano biome… I could maybe understand fighting this boss…

But as she stands right now, she’s programmed to be EASIER to fight in groups, and the loot she drops clearly ain’t worth engaging in the fight to begin with.

Unlike say… Deerclops who’s Eye is Useful for Eyebrella & Houndious turrets.

[Ridley]

27 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

There’s a lot of “late game” items that I rarely if ever use in this game at all, and the gems especially go under-used.

I still even all these years later don’t understand what’s so important about green and orange gems...

Orange gem crafts are really more of a luxury, but the Lazy Deserter was probably the sink for orange gems. Except we have many options for mobility/transportation/teleportation now so the Lazy Deserter isn't as unique. Orange gems do pile up overtime.

Green gems make the deconstruction staff/construction amulet which allows easy material duping. I don't enjoy fighting bishops for crumbs of Thulecite, so I have a real appreciation  for green gems.

As for the Dragonfly, I think it is pretty clear it was the first raid boss and was the testing grounds for new ideas. Some of those ideas just didn't work out like the stun mechanic or the scales.

[douan33]

On 8/25/2024 at 11:33 PM, Mike23Ua said:

There’s a lot of “late game” items that I rarely if ever use in this game at all, and the gems especially go under-used.

I still even all these years later don’t understand what’s so important about green and orange gems.......

 

I wish even more people talked about it. Why does dragonfly even drop green and orange gems? Why are her drops so out of place? There's no difference between 1 and 0 orange/green gems. You either have none or have lots.

Why is her dropping meat better than her dropping gems or lavae egg? Why do I use more dragonfly statues than furnaces? She's so outdated and I'm kind of obsessed with it. Just by giving it a thought for a few minutes people replied with amazing ideas.

A dragonfly rework would bring a lot more to the table than the cave beta we got 2 days ago. I really like the update but when I think of one of the most boring and useless bosses in the game that even has its own biome, I'd take a rework for it over any update to be honest. 

[Mike23Ua]

22 minutes ago, douan33 said:

I wish even more people talked about it. Why does dragonfly even drop green and orange gems? Why are her drops so out of place? There's no difference between 1 and 0 orange/green gems. You either have none or have lots.

Why is her dropping meat better than her dropping gems or lavae egg? Why do I use more dragonfly statues than furnaces? She's so outdated and I'm kind of obsessed with it. Just by giving it a thought for a few minutes people replied with amazing ideas.

A dragonfly rework would bring a lot more to the table than the cave beta we got 2 days ago. I really like the update but when I think of one of the most boring and useless bosses in the game that even has its own biome, I'd take a rework for it over any update to be honest. 

Gems were in its loot pool to simulate it being a dragon sitting on a pile of shiny jewels and loot… but, over the years Klei has added cool new stuff like actual sunken treasure chests.

I personally have very little use for green and orange gems, I’m literally throwing them on the ground as base decorations… 

But that also boils down to a persons playstyle and playing preferences.

If I never use any of the weapons that need green or orange gems then they are pretty pointless.

What I would “like” added to her loot pool as a guaranteed drop every time you kill her is a “Dragons Egg” which would be about like a Tallbird egg.. you can cook it for nice stats. And also an obvious actual treasure chest (still with gems and other stuff inside)

people made such a huge stink over this boss getting changes back in the day because if she was made easier- they felt it would be too easy to farm green, yellow and orange gems.

But… now we have trees where gems literally grow from trees.

Its time this boss got a proper re-looking at.

[ChintzyGnat]

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Gems were in its loot pool to simulate it being a dragon sitting on a pile of shiny jewels and loot… but, over the years Klei has added cool new stuff like actual sunken treasure chests.

I personally have very little use for green and orange gems, I’m literally throwing them on the ground as base decorations… 

But that also boils down to a persons playstyle and playing preferences.

If I never use any of the weapons that need green or orange gems then they are pretty pointless.

What I would “like” added to her loot pool as a guaranteed drop every time you kill her is a “Dragons Egg” which would be about like a Tallbird egg.. you can cook it for nice stats. And also an obvious actual treasure chest (still with gems and other stuff inside)

people made such a huge stink over this boss getting changes back in the day because if she was made easier- they felt it would be too easy to farm green, yellow and orange gems.

But… now we have trees where gems literally grow from trees.

Its time this boss got a proper re-looking at.

Greens are invaluable for mushlights, glowcaps, and scaled turf. That's why I usally need alot. Otherwise they would pile up over time. 

[Echsrick]

why cant we not just leave dragonfly drops of green, yellow, orange gems? i mean just because you can get gem tree dont mean instandly dragonfly sould not give gems aswell, nothing wrong with multiple sources of gettin the same items

[douan33]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

What I would “like” added to her loot pool as a guaranteed drop every time you kill her is a “Dragons Egg” which would be about like a Tallbird egg.. you can cook it for nice stats. And also an obvious actual treasure chest (still with gems and other stuff inside)

people made such a huge stink over this boss getting changes back in the day because if she was made easier- they felt it would be too easy to farm green, yellow and orange gems.

But… now we have trees where gems literally grow from trees.

Its time this boss got a proper re-looking at.

She could drop a new type of treasure chest for sure. Imagine a big dragon egg similiar to moose/goose, upon breaking it she could drop loot. EVEN if she just drops the same gem loots she does now with a little buff it would still be a thing. Or imagine if you didn't break the egg it would just hatch in 2 days, so you could kill her again? With just a little drop change it would really work. Honestly Klei is just missing something amazing here.

2 hours ago, Echsrick said:

why cant we not just leave dragonfly drops of green, yellow, orange gems? i mean just because you can get gem tree dont mean instandly dragonfly sould not give gems aswell, nothing wrong with multiple sources of gettin the same items

The loot is not wrong, it is just straight up useless. Can you recall a time you were grateful just because you killed dragonfly you have the gems needed for something? I can't. Again, the gem drops are basically pointless, the scales are useless outside of scaled chest and furnace, which you can duplicate so you don't even need to kill dragonfly more than once for any reason at all.

I know I keep repeating this, but this boss has its own biome, this boss has been untouched for a while, no different than a beefalo with 27500 health (just like @Mike23Ua said "glorified beefalo" before.) so it holds an amazing potential. And honestly a rework for it with improved AND maybe a new type of loot would bring new content as the last beta if not more.

Also I believe this thread still being active after 23 days it was posted really says something.

[Echsrick]

13 hours ago, douan33 said:

 

The loot is not wrong, it is just straight up useless. Can you recall a time you were grateful just because you killed dragonfly you have the gems needed for something? I can't. Again, the gem drops are basically pointless, the scales are useless outside of scaled chest and furnace, which you can duplicate so you don't even need to kill dragonfly more than once for any reason at all.

ok....i guess you dont like green staff and amulets, orange staff and amulets, or yellow staff and amulets

[DegenerateFurry]

On 8/26/2024 at 5:17 PM, douan33 said:

She could drop a new type of treasure chest for sure. Imagine a big dragon egg similiar to moose/goose, upon breaking it she could drop loot. EVEN if she just drops the same gem loots she does now with a little buff it would still be a thing. Or imagine if you didn't break the egg it would just hatch in 2 days, so you could kill her again? With just a little drop change it would really work. Honestly Klei is just missing something amazing here.

The loot is not wrong, it is just straight up useless. Can you recall a time you were grateful just because you killed dragonfly you have the gems needed for something? I can't. Again, the gem drops are basically pointless, the scales are useless outside of scaled chest and furnace, which you can duplicate so you don't even need to kill dragonfly more than once for any reason at all. 

The gems are unironically great. DST's ruins are sometimes way too small for the number of players and I occasionally find myself needing the gems from Dragonfly to make up for that fact. Also, you need two red gems for a scaled furnace. 
Wilson can make an iridescent gem and skip the moonstone event if he kills Dragonfly once, which is pretty cool for speedrunning CC. 
More important than that, though: the blue gems you get from Dragonfly can let you make salt boxes if some prick is hoarding all the ones the graveyard dropped/if the graveyard didn't drop any (or it can just be more salt boxes!), and that's important to making a really good kitchen. I actually killed Dragonfly just for salt boxes in a Klei server the other day.

[Mike23Ua]

18 hours ago, Echsrick said:

ok....i guess you dont like green staff and amulets, orange staff and amulets, or yellow staff and amulets

I don’t use any of these, and there’s never any tutorials that explains why I would need them, OR what they even do..

And in all Honesty? If the boss instead dropped Blue, Red or especially Purple Gems they would see more use from Day to Day play (those others are for late game base enjoyers) 

But Reds, Blues and especially Purples are used for a large variety of things- Making the Shadow Manipulator, Creating Ice & Fire Staffs, Fuel for the Teleporter Staff & Teleport Pad (forget what that one’s called Atm)

Point is: Dragonfly shouldn’t be such a tanky health sponge with an uninteresting boss fight because her holy grail is a couple Green/Yellow/Orange Jewels.

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

don’t use any of these, and there’s never any tutorials that explains why I would need them, OR what they even do.

That is what uncompromising means

 

In the new ingame wiki is explained

[Echsrick]

6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t use any of these, and there’s never any tutorials that explains why I would need them, OR what they even do..

....then maybe do use them? i mean its not dragonflys fault if you never use those gems....i mean i dont think there is a tutorial how to use a spear, do you alsol not make and use a spear?

[douan33]

On 8/27/2024 at 4:30 PM, Echsrick said:

ok....i guess you dont like green staff and amulets, orange staff and amulets, or yellow staff and amulets

How is that related to dragonfly? Noone fights with dragonfly for one green gem. You go to ruins, clear the ruins, then craft whatever you want with the gems you find. Dragonfly's drops have little to no effect on what you craft, that's one of the entire points of this post. You either have tons of green gems or you don't- and you don't fight dragonfly for the gems.

Also no, I only use star caller staff, I don't use the rest since I am a Wurt main.

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, douan33 said:

How is that related to dragonfly? Noone fights with dragonfly for one green gem. You go to ruins, clear the ruins, then craft whatever you want with the gems you find. Dragonfly's drops have little to no effect on what you craft, that's one of the entire points of this post. You either have tons of green gems or you don't- and you don't fight dragonfly for the gems.

Also no, I only use star caller staff, I don't use the rest since I am a Wurt main.

renewability its why

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, Echsrick said:

renewability its why

I’m sorry but somehow I don’t think getting one or at most TWO green gems every 20 or so game days after fighting a 27,500hp raid boss Resource Sink should be considered as “Renewability”

Furthermore, If someone has ever played the game long enough to unlock WintersFeast, you can obtain these same gems just by sleeping under a fully decorated Christmas tree each night.

This boss is really bad, and aside from the scaled furnace which has been replaced by much better new items by now.

Or MAYBE the Scaled Chest & Scaled Flooring…? 

Dragonfly doesn’t really offer much. It is far too difficult for the loot it offers.

Eye of Terror drops an infinitely repairable football helmet you can literally feed redcaps to to keep from ever breaking.. and it’s got significantly less health than Dragonfly.

This boss needs changing…

[Jakepeng99]

Make it drop a recipe for scaled walls. It will be ironic.

[youwillfly]

DragonFly is a very interesting hero with quite a few strategies. And it's also very challenging, such as the Furious DragonFly. In terms of gameplay, I personally think it is comparable to the Weaver, obviously there is less developer about the DragonFly gameplay.

At the same time, the dragonfly is obviously more independent in the game, and it is difficult to be interested in fighting again during a game.

[Anis5240]

On 8/27/2024 at 8:17 AM, douan33 said:

this thread still being active after 23 days

hey my thread bout Wilson needing a better skill tree was up to almost 5 months before it got archived lel (which is barely anything but still)

Anyway, in my opinion Dragonfly should be reworked to have 17500 hp, but with more battle mechanics to make the fight challenging. The enraged part is somewhat ok, but it could be improved on since after a while/pan flute (WHICH IS NOT A CHEESE SINCE IT WAS MEANT TO SERENADE/CALM MOBS IN THE FIRST PLACE) she's just back to her normal form.

[W0l0l0]

On 8/4/2024 at 9:36 AM, Reiko24 said:

Ah alright. Did it deal 1000 dmg years ago or something? Or was this just my imagination lmao

I think you're thinking of the Old Bell.

[Megaerra]

I only believe that Lavae Egg is a necessary item for rework, and I have never seen any record of them using it from anyone else. I think the most failed design is when a prop has no practical value at any time. It cannot serve anyone at any time, and even as an ornamental prop, it still needs ash/charcoal maintenance. I think his rework is very necessary. I look forward to him making changes and upgrades. If his burning and hunger shortcomings can be compensated for, even if he becomes a unique prop like Eye Bone/Glommer's Flower, I think this is the best rework

[Ratituee]

honestly, i really like dragonfly. i like how viable it is in the first fall. it's a fun challenge that i do sometimes to keep things interesting. i also really like the puzzle of building a defense against the larvae, even if it is clearly not supposed to be fought this way.

the one thing i would change is scale drops. scaled furnaces don't need a buff, but scaled chests, floors, and scalemale absolutely do.

chests cost 3 boards and have 9 slots. scaled chests cost 4 boards, 10 gold nuggets, and a scale, and have 12 slots. they objectively are worse value than chests if you look at it purely as cost-per-slot. obviously having extra slots in 1 chest is also convenient, and i don't think they are awful by any means, just not worth going after most of the time. i only make them because i have extra scales left over after making the furnace.

the floors and scalemale are much worse, though. i don't have a problem with them existing, but i have yet to see much of an application for either. i remember people used to make automatic bunnyman farms with scaled floors, but that is obviously no longer a thing anyone does. and the scalemale sets everything on fire unless you use an ice flingomatic, and if you do that, what's the point?

 

overall, i like dragonfly. i think the fight definitely has issues but beequeen needs much more attention

 

 

[dst_lover]

5 hours ago, Ratituee said:

honestly, i really like dragonfly. i like how viable it is in the first fall. it's a fun challenge that i do sometimes to keep things interesting. i also really like the puzzle of building a defense against the larvae, even if it is clearly not supposed to be fought this way.

the one thing i would change is scale drops. scaled furnaces don't need a buff, but scaled chests, floors, and scalemale absolutely do.

chests cost 3 boards and have 9 slots. scaled chests cost 4 boards, 10 gold nuggets, and a scale, and have 12 slots. they objectively are worse value than chests if you look at it purely as cost-per-slot. obviously having extra slots in 1 chest is also convenient, and i don't think they are awful by any means, just not worth going after most of the time. i only make them because i have extra scales left over after making the furnace.

 

 

Yes they have less value but it’s actually way batter to use the Elastispacer on them then normal chest