Does anyone know why where the devs got the inspiration for wigfrids Beefalo skills

[Dr.Webber]

Any idea also pun not intended 

[NPCMaxwell]

I was kind of wondering the same thing when I first heard of her having beefalo specific skills. I would have rather expected her to have boating related skills.

But maybe they focused on the beefalo riding because of either it having a "warrior" theme or give it a "ride of the valkyr" flavour to have a music playing when she's riding a beefalo without directly using the ride of the valkyr melody.

[Dr.Webber]

12 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

a "ride of the valkyr" flavour to have a music playing when she's riding a beefalo without directly using the ride of the valkyr melody.

You know what this is exceptable 

[NPCMaxwell]

5 hours ago, Dr.Webber said:

You know what this is exceptable 

At least it was the first thing that came into my mind when I heard that there was an exclusive melody for her beefalo riding.

[DegenerateFurry]

I still think the one big mistake they made with that update was giving Wigfrid beefalo-related skills. Her character perks just don't have any synchronicity with beefalo riding. 

[Dr.Webber]

40 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I still think the one big mistake they made with that update was giving Wigfrid beefalo-related skills. Her character perks just don't have any synchronicity with beefalo riding. 

True, but at least the valkyrie ride theory makes it easier to cope

[readkey]

My guess is Klei tried to provide an alternative way to play Wigfrid, for those who love her as a character but also like riding a beefalo. 

Similar to Wolfgang rarely really needs his whistle since he is a one-man army, but for some players, maybe newbies, need to use followers to deal with some threats and/or bosses. 

[Gashzer]

 

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I still think the one big mistake they made with that update was giving Wigfrid beefalo-related skills. Her character perks just don't have any synchronicity with beefalo riding. 

I got to disagree here. An ornery beefalo does synergise with wigfrid's other skills. 

Let's say I'm fighting dragonfly, I gain inspiration before the fight with battle saddle ornery beefalo and have heart rending ballet going. Then i can straight up tank dragonfly for a while with the commanders helm plus battle spear on foot. When my helm takes too much damage or my health is getting low, I can mount ornery beefalo and continue tanking to heal both my health and my helm. When tanking with a battle saddle beefalo you can take 17 hits from dragonfly before the beef goes in the red which is insane 

Once beefalo is hurt too much ill dismount with full hp and helm somewhat regenerated and continue tanking as wigfrid until dfly is dead.

Battle saddle ornery simply adds to the already tanky nature of wigfrid allowing you to quite literally stand still and press f to win. It's very satisfying.

Plus tank fighting hound waves, nightmares or basic mobs on ornery allows you to passively restore commander helm durability without needing to kite.

Tank to win all the way!

Embrace the tank, tame a beefalo as wigfrid today!

[cybers2001]

9 hours ago, readkey said:

My guess is Klei tried to provide an alternative way to play Wigfrid, for those who love her as a character but also like riding a beefalo. 

Similar to Wolfgang rarely really needs his whistle since he is a one-man army, but for some players, maybe newbies, need to use followers to deal with some threats and/or bosses. 

Exactly this. If you give her the beefalo skills, she basically becomes a tank bard that can keep playing her songs and frontline with her beefalo. It's a pretty neat idea by Klei, honestly.

My biggest complaint is that the faster beefalo taming should be combined with the longer riding perks, because faster taming becomes completely useless once the beefalo is tamed.

[HowlVoid]

The real question is why don't the songs work when mounting a beefalo.

You would think that adding these skills would prompt them to ensure there's more synergy between the two. 

At least last time I checked the healing song doesn't work on a beef.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Gashzer said:

 

I got to disagree here. An ornery beefalo does synergise with wigfrid's other skills. 

Let's say I'm fighting dragonfly, I gain inspiration before the fight with battle saddle ornery beefalo and have heart rending ballet going. Then i can straight up tank dragonfly for a while with the commanders helm plus battle spear on foot. When my helm takes too much damage or my health is getting low, I can mount ornery beefalo and continue tanking to heal both my health and my helm. When tanking with a battle saddle beefalo you can take 17 hits from dragonfly before the beef goes in the red which is insane 

Once beefalo is hurt too much ill dismount with full hp and helm somewhat regenerated and continue tanking as wigfrid until dfly is dead.

Battle saddle ornery simply adds to the already tanky nature of wigfrid allowing you to quite literally stand still and press f to win. It's very satisfying.

Plus tank fighting hound waves, nightmares or basic mobs on ornery allows you to passively restore commander helm durability without needing to kite.

Tank to win all the way!

Embrace the tank, tame a beefalo as wigfrid today!

She has a damage multiplier. Using a beefalo negates character damage multipliers - it doesn't matter if you're Wendy, Wigfrid, Wes, or Wolfgang, you'll be doing the same damage by attacking with a beefalo. The only exception is Warly: you can feed it a chili powder steamed twigs and eat a voltgoat jelly yourself and both multipliers will be applied.

You get more effective HP (especially as Wigfrid with her healing via combat) by wearing a marble suit with one of her helms (since the damage is split between their durabilities) than you do by riding a beefalo. 

Her heal-on-attack does not heal the beefalo, so you still have to dismount to heal it like anyone else.

She's generally excellent for fighting and is literally better off doing it herself, from an objective standpoint, than riding a beefalo to take and dish out hits for her. The raw numbers (66 for an ornery war saddle beef versus 74 for a fresh hambat wielded by Wigfrid) plus the faster attack speed you get with an unmounted character means you're just doing less in the fight than you could be. 

The only small bit of synchronicity that exists in the Wigfrid Beefalo playstyle is that she can't eat blue caps, so it makes even more sense to feed those to a beefalo as her, but everyone who uses combat beefalos should be keeping a bunch of those on them just for healing the beefalo anyway.

Not only is all of this true, but it's also cheaper in terms of time and resource investment to get to the point where you can just tank as Wigfrid normally using a marble suit and one or two of her default helms.

Since there's no real advantage to using a combat beefalo as Wigfrid early-game (since it won't be tamed early-game and you won't have a war saddle, further crippling your DPS) and no advantage to using it mid-to-late-game (where you'll have plenty of marble and/or better repairable armor options, like dreadstone, brightshade/void armor, or the eye mask), there is literally no reason to do it as Wigfrid. It's characters who struggle with combat, like Wormwood with his more difficult healing or Wendy with her damage reduction (since Abigail's damage received buff to things she attacks still applies to damage you deal via beefalo), who benefit from ornery + war saddle.  

Now, a rider beefalo? Very different story, she doesn't have any mobility perks and could absolutely benefit from being faster, and the inspiration gain while riding means that you can dismount to get straight into a fight, say to help your friends or to fend off hounds, with the advantage of being able to use a song or two right away. Her battle saddle's existence is pointless for her to use herself, though, being a worse option than either non-basic saddle that encourages an ineffective playstyle for Wigfrid.

[cybers2001]

9 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Since there's no real advantage to using a combat beefalo as Wigfrid early-game (since it won't be tamed early-game and you won't have a war saddle, further crippling your DPS) and no advantage to using it mid-to-late-game (where you'll have plenty of marble and/or better repairable armor options, like dreadstone, brightshade/void armor, or the eye mask), there is literally no reason to do it as Wigfrid. It's characters who struggle with combat, like Wormwood with his more difficult healing or Wendy with her damage reduction (since Abigail's damage received buff to things she attacks still applies to damage you deal via beefalo), who benefit from ornery + war saddle. 

Well it's a good thing that's the case, because then people who want to min/max Wigfrid will use her other skills while people prefer to just be tanks on a beefalo can do so with her beefalo perks.

[DegenerateFurry]

15 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Well it's a good thing that's the case, because then people who want to min/max Wigfrid will use her other skills while people prefer to just be tanks on a beefalo can do so with her beefalo perks.

I mean, yes, you can do that, but you can also just fight exclusively using her battle spears and helms. Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to call equipment you can literally make on day one or two (the limiting factor on a ham bat and a marble suit is how fast you can craft an alchemy engine) "min-maxing"?

The comparison here isn't just ornery war saddle beefalo vs spicy volt goat chaud-froid Wigfrid with brightshade gear, it's also ornery war saddle beefalo vs Wigfrid with a ham bat, the helm she spawned with, and a marble suit. It loses the latter in DPS by a wide margin and slightly loses it in terms of effective HP, and it takes way, way more time and effort, even if you invest your skill tree perks in beefalo taming. 

Honestly, it takes substantially more "min-maxing" to tame a beefalo to be ornery and to make a war saddle in the first place. You have to be careful about how much you fight versus how much you ride, you have to go out of your way to hunt and kill an Ewecus (good luck doing that before day 30, the RNG is not in your favor - I know from experience), and you're going to need to either go to the ruins for a construction amulet or kill more than one Ewecus since they only drop up to three wool and you need four. 

[Mike23Ua]

13 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I still think the one big mistake they made with that update was giving Wigfrid beefalo-related skills. Her character perks just don't have any synchronicity with beefalo riding. 

I hated the Beefalo perks too until they allowed inspiration to build up on its own while riding a Beefalo.

Wigfrids problem particularly when it comes to her song scrolls is that there not enough (hostile) mobs in the game to keep her inspiration meter built up outside of boss fights and maybe huge swarms of spiders.

But at least the Beefalo prevents it from draining as you go in between battles.

This is basic day to day mob fights (spiders, hounds, bees from bee hive etc..) the Beefalo gives the song scrolls more usage outside of big bad boss fights.

[cybers2001]

6 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I mean, yes, you can do that, but you can also just fight exclusively using her battle spears and helms. Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to call equipment you can literally make on day one or two (the limiting factor on a ham bat and a marble suit is how fast you can craft an alchemy engine) "min-maxing"?

When did I say that?

My point was if all her perks directly worked towards a singular playstyle, then there would be no variety in skill tree loadouts. Everyone would just use whatever is the strongest.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

When did I say that?

 

8 hours ago, cybers2001 said:

Well it's a good thing that's the case, because then people who want to min/max Wigfrid will use her other skills while people prefer to just be tanks on a beefalo can do so with her beefalo perks.

You said this in response to a post where I did an objective comparison of an idealized beefalo setup (war saddle + ornery) to the simple, easy-and-very-fast-to-obtain ham bat + marble suit combo. So, the part I've underlined, that's when.

 

1 hour ago, cybers2001 said:

My point was if all her perks directly worked towards a singular playstyle, then there would be no variety in skill tree loadouts. Everyone would just use whatever is the strongest.

And my point is that these perks are wasted on Wigfrid since her using a beefalo for combat purposes is an active detriment to her. She's literally better off just taming beefalos for other players who'd stand something to gain from using one, like Maxwell, Wormwood, Walter, Wendy, Wes, Warly (who can't just spam the same healing food 50 times in a row like everyone else and can buff the beefalo), and Wickerbottom (who does have a little less max HP). 

The thing that absolutely needs to be understood here: there is no Wigfrid combat beefalo playstyle. There is only the combat beefalo playstyle.
It's the exact same for every single character, it's just that some are better off doing it than not doing it (such as the ones I mentioned) for various reasons, like lower damage, difficulty healing themselves, or lower HP.
Others are better off not doing it, such as Wolfgang, Wanda, and Wigfrid: they are characters who, by fighting with a beefalo, negate the advantages of playing them over another character. Despite this, Klei saw fit to give the perks to one of the characters who, objectively, is among the least out of the cast to benefit from taming a beefalo. 

[cybers2001]

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

You said this in response to a post where I did an objective comparison of an idealized beefalo setup (war saddle + ornery) to the simple, easy-and-very-fast-to-obtain ham bat + marble suit combo. So, the part I've underlined, that's when.

I'm sorry, I don't see the connection here. How does a hambat + marble suit being easy to obtain invalidate a strategy where you domesticate a beefalo to use as a tank bard? None of her skill tree has anything to do with hambats and marble suits in the first place (?) Beefalo are regenerative, which means you don't need to keep crafting marble suits, and you don't have to go the ornery route if your goal is to tank, so instead of being slow and tanky with a marble suit, you can be fast and tanky with a rider beefalo. Or you can still go the ornery route, and still be faster because the battle saddle gives 30% bonus movement speed. One of the beefalo perks also lets her build up inspiration outside of combat, so she can start casting buffs immediately. She can prioritize support instead of combat since she never drops below half inspiration, and can use healing and resurrection spells to keep teammates alive. It's a different playstyle, like I said.

 

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

The thing that absolutely needs to be understood here: there is no Wigfrid combat beefalo playstyle. There is only the combat beefalo playstyle.
It's the exact same for every single character, it's just that some are better off doing it than not doing it (such as the ones I mentioned) for various reasons, like lower damage, difficulty healing themselves, or lower HP.
Others are better off not doing it, such as Wolfgang, Wanda, and Wigfrid: they are characters who, by fighting with a beefalo, negate the advantages of playing them over another character. Despite this, Klei saw fit to give the perks to one of the characters who, objectively, is among the least out of the cast to benefit from taming a beefalo. 

Except only Wigfrid can craft a saddle to make beefalo into better tanks, and only Wigfrid can generate inspiration passively while riding on a beefalo.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you take Battle Rond, considering Elding Spear is pretty much meta? Or are the Battle Rond perks basically dead perks to you?

[DegenerateFurry]

24 minutes ago, cybers2001 said:

Let me ask you this. Do you take Battle Rond, considering Elding Spear is pretty much meta? Or are the Battle Rond perks basically dead perks to you?

I don't play Wigfrid much, I'm a Warly main. That said, I have tried it out, and there is a difference here: the Battle Rond actually is variety. It might not be the most effective option, but it's something only Wigfrid can really do and shakes up the age-old combat loop this game has. It's quite a cool perk for Wigfrid to have. Most importantly, it suits her role as a combat character who's meant to be taking hits (because otherwise, why can she heal by fighting?) while letting her negate some of the damage she'd otherwise take if she uses it well. 

Wigfrid on an ornery beefalo, however, is, as stated numerous times, objectively no better than any other character on an ornery beefalo. It goes against her role as a combat character who's meant to be taking hits because now she's not fighting herself, which means her damage multiplier, damage reduction, and healing from combat mechanics aren't being utilized. It's a gameplay style unsuitable for Wigfrid because it negates her purpose and perks as a character. Her songs don't even affect the beefalo, so there's no synchronicity there either. 

You know who'd be better off getting beefalo-related perks? Warly. Give him a branch that gives him the ability to make butter from milk, lets him milk beefalo to get non-electric milk, and lets him tame beefalo faster. That'd have synchronicity with the fact that he can buff their damage and damage reduction with crock pot foods and by using volt goat chaud-froid, and it'd also work with the fact that Warly players tend to farm giant crops (which a beefalo helps with moving) for food variety and for garlic and peppers. He has more reason to use a beefalo, too, since it's harder for him to heal himself than someone like Wigfrid (literally has the easiest healing in the game) and at least lacks any innate bonus to his own base damage or damage reduction. 
But, no, since Wigfrid got beefalo taming perks, we now can't have them on a character who actually has a good reason to have them. 

[lowercase skye]

14 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Let's say I'm fighting dragonfly, I gain inspiration before the fight with battle saddle ornery beefalo and have heart rending ballet going. Then i can straight up tank dragonfly for a while with the commanders helm plus battle spear on foot. When my helm takes too much damage or my health is getting low, I can mount ornery beefalo and continue tanking to heal both my health and my helm. When tanking with a battle saddle beefalo you can take 17 hits from dragonfly before the beef goes in the red which is insane 

Once beefalo is hurt too much ill dismount with full hp and helm somewhat regenerated and continue tanking as wigfrid until dfly is dead.

I used to do this a lot too! The commander's helm is practically made for attacking on a Beefalo, since it's the only scenario where you'll really be evading hits with such consistency to heal more durability than you lose. It's a very fun and satisfying use of a Beefalo for Wigfrid, and I'm surprised that all of these long replies entirely avoid mentioning it, while slinging words like "objectively" around.

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, finn from human said:

I used to do this a lot too! The commander's helm is practically made for attacking on a Beefalo, since it's the only scenario where you'll really be evading hits with such consistency to heal more durability than you lose. It's a very fun and satisfying use of a Beefalo for Wigfrid, and I'm surprised that all of these long replies entirely avoid mentioning it, while slinging words like "objectively" around.

If you're gonna throw shade at me, quote me so I get notified. That said, I'm using "objectively" correctly: the math simply checks out for the fact that Wigfrid does less damage whilst riding atop a beefalo. Math is as objective as you can get and she'll be doing less with an ornery war saddle beefalo than she will with a ham bat. Don't believe me? Go test it yourself or check the wiki. 

As for why I didn't mention the commander helm regenning while on beefalo quirk: I frankly haven't used it in that way, and it seems niche enough that you should be able to fathom the concept that not everyone knows about it, sort of like how not everyone knows that you can use water balloons or a watering can on a farm plot to make Dragonfly wet so voltgoat jelly is maximally effective against it regardless of rain.

[Lovens]

19 hours ago, Gashzer said:

 

I got to disagree here. An ornery beefalo does synergise with wigfrid's other skills. 

Let's say I'm fighting dragonfly, I gain inspiration before the fight with battle saddle ornery beefalo and have heart rending ballet going. Then i can straight up tank dragonfly for a while with the commanders helm plus battle spear on foot. When my helm takes too much damage or my health is getting low, I can mount ornery beefalo and continue tanking to heal both my health and my helm. When tanking with a battle saddle beefalo you can take 17 hits from dragonfly before the beef goes in the red which is insane 

Once beefalo is hurt too much ill dismount with full hp and helm somewhat regenerated and continue tanking as wigfrid until dfly is dead.

Battle saddle ornery simply adds to the already tanky nature of wigfrid allowing you to quite literally stand still and press f to win. It's very satisfying.

Plus tank fighting hound waves, nightmares or basic mobs on ornery allows you to passively restore commander helm durability without needing to kite.

Tank to win all the way!

Embrace the tank, tame a beefalo as wigfrid today!

Or you can tame a rider beefalo, get an elding spear and a watering can, and absolutely shred dfly without even tanking much (apart from lavae). Just replace every time you would have tanked her with a spear dash and you dodge the hit, get free damage on her, repair your gear and don't risk your cow. Also it's super fun and satisfying to charge through her. 

[cybers2001]

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I don't play Wigfrid much, I'm a Warly main.

Maaaaan. The people who talk the most about what skills a character should not have are always the ones who don’t even play the character.

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

That said, I have tried it out, and there is a difference here: the Battle Rond actually is variety. It might not be the most effective option, but it's something only Wigfrid can really do and shakes up the age-old combat loop this game has. It's quite a cool perk for Wigfrid to have. 

Some people think beefalo combat is cool, too. It’s nice having choices :)

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Most importantly, it suits her role as a combat character who's meant to be taking hits (because otherwise, why can she heal by fighting?) while letting her negate some of the damage she'd otherwise take if she uses it well. 

Wigfrid is a top 3 most picked character. Do you suppose that is because there’s an extremely high demand for tactical face tanking? If as many people cared about combat efficiency as you say, they’d all be Wolfgang/Wendy/Wanda mains.

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Wigfrid on an ornery beefalo, however, is, as stated numerous times, objectively no better than any other character on an ornery beefalo.

Stated numerous times, yet still not addressing my arguments.

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

But, no, since Wigfrid got beefalo taming perks, we now can't have them on a character who actually has a good reason to have them. 

Finally, a statement from you that addresses my argument. So the reason you want to deny this playstyle option from Wigfrids (besides min/maxing), is because you want it on your main. Got it.

5 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

That said, I'm using "objectively" correctly: the math simply checks out for the fact that Wigfrid does less damage whilst riding atop a beefalo. Math is as objective as you can get and she'll be doing less with an ornery war saddle beefalo than she will with a ham bat. Don't believe me? Go test it yourself or check the wiki. 

I dunno, sounds like min/maxer speak to me.

[abrocator]

I’m an intermediate player. I have played Wigfrid with an ornery beefalo in a server with at least 3–7 people. I did end up using the ornery a lot.

• Clearing the ruins with Wolfgang: beefalo inspiration means he’s always buffed and I don’t have to worry about losing inspiration. His damage output is enough to carry but I help as well.
• Killing raid bosses with a lot of people: I at least have one song active so people are buffed all the time. Yes you can dismount right before the fight. But Wigfrid has that problem (like @Mike23Ua mentioned) that you quickly get starved for inspiration, like in the pauses when fighting DF with walls.
• Helping kill CC many times for crown farming: I am unsure of myself in this fight so I chose to fight it in the two first stages on the beefalo and the last one on foot. I don’t know if that was really great? The two first phases are easy and you can get enough hits in to maintain inspiration I guess.
• Just fighting stray creatures when out and about: having an ornery beefalo is much more versatile than a rider beefalo since you always have at least tentacle spike damage (you never get tentacle spike+ damage with a rider unless buffed with chili or something fringe like that… right?). So that’s why I tamed an ornery one.
• Yes I did fight a lot of foot and I did have a charged elding spear (someone gave me the restrained static lol)
• I really, really like her battle saddle. It makes the beefalo so much tankier and I don’t miss the extra damage from the war saddle. And it’s easier to make (the war saddle recipe is hilarious). There’s just so many fights you can take with this saddle with some sloppy half-arsed “kiting” playstyle where you don’t even have to worry about bringing healing items since you’ll regenerate until the next fight. Meanwhile with the free (in terms of resources) dreadstone set even Wigfrid the war maniac can easily have insane sessions just to regenerate them. Too bad really that the Buff Beefalo saddle is now character-exclusive.
• I didn’t play like this but I really like @Gashzer’s idea of swapping between foot soldiering and mounted battle; this makes Wigfrid even more of a nomad character! Now players at a lower skill level can go longer as Wigfrid out in the wild while not having to worry about restocking on armor and healing.

Now as far as reasons for why she has beefalo perks… the synergies are there (inspiration and nomad) but they certainly are not as pronounced as Wendy and Maxwell. I haven’t played Maxwell since his beta but I already like beefalo gameplay so rushing  beefalo as him would be mandatory.

I really, really hope it is not for “lore” reasons. That’s lame. This is an adventure video game not an, I don’t know, some sort of cosplay simulator (lol what am I talking about)

[Gashzer]

23 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

The real question is why don't the songs work when mounting a beefalo.

You would think that adding these skills would prompt them to ensure there's more synergy between the two. 

At least last time I checked the healing song doesn't work on a beef.

Healing song works to heal wigfrid while on the beefalo or her commander helm.

Hence that's why tanking first on foot, then mounting an ornery beefalo to continue tanking is the best way to avoid using any healing items or having to make new commander helms (i make two helms and alter between them to avoid them breaking during a boss fight) 

 

[Dr.Webber]

10 minutes ago, abrocator said:

 

I really, really hope it is not for “lore” reasons. That’s lame. This is an adventure video game not an, I don’t know, some sort of cosplay simulator (lol what am I talking about)

TF you say about lore