Hardmode is not the way to go.

[ChintzyGnat]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Everything being “Optional” in a survival game is in fact not actually good.

And if you need any further proof of that, please go play Minecraft or Lego Fortnite- New Mobs are added all the time into those games, and a good bit of them even into old biomes or just in general- New hostile mobs to spawn at night and hunt after you period..

 

Second paragraph has no point at all.

The game is already damn hard for new players. Mega bases will just clown on anything you add to get them uncomfortable and at somepoint they will stop playing the game because of poor game choices, like opening a black hole because "its An UnCoMPrAmisIng survival GaME so you shouldn't be able to MaKE a BasE". 

Also much of the content is not enjoyable for somepeople. YOU  are targeting mega bases ONLY, farmers hate combat, combaters hate farming, resource gathers don't want to fight a boss when they want to chill out. Or vice versa...

 

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 

Are you just intentionally trying to be an annoying troll at this point? You don’t need an end game boss to spawn in your base to get new early game/mid-game/and early late game challenges.

See my previous RogueLike example where World 4 now becomes World 7.

[ChintzyGnat]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

See my previous RogueLike example where World 4 now becomes World 7.

This explains nothing at all

[Mike23Ua]

8 minutes ago, ChintzyGnat said:

Also much of the content is not enjoyable for somepeople. YOU  are targeting mega bases ONLY, farmers hate combat, combaters hate farming, resource gathers don't want to fight a boss when they want to chill out. Or vice versa...

 

This is interesting considering that resource gathers are likely going to be the only ones triggering hostile Treeguards (hey I’m looking at you Woodie!) Farmers are the only ones who can ever even SPAWN into the world at all Binding Weeds and Fruit Flies. If you don’t farm this is combat/content you miss out on, only players who actively fish will ever be attacked by Skittersquid.

I think it’s fair to say that Combat is involved throughout all aspects of the game.

[ChintzyGnat]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

This is interesting considering that resource gathers are likely going to be the only ones triggering hostile Treeguards (hey I’m looking at you Woodie!) Farmers are the only ones who can ever even SPAWN into the world at all Binding Weeds and Fruit Flies. If you don’t farm this is combat/content you miss out on, only players who actively fish will ever be attacked by Skittersquid.

I think it’s fair to say that Combat is involved throughout all aspects of the game.

Yeah the content has combat but it's not even that threating. 

Also this applies to any event, antlion is super damn annoying for many to either kill or feed trinkets. Lunar hail does nothing to a veteran but obliterates new players, same for acid rain. Cave boulders added nothing but were thematic.

Also are things that attack the character not already added? People just know how to avoid the consequences of leaving base when deerclops spawns or antlion attacks unless once again you are NEW.

unpreventable stuff is never fun when it destroyed your hard work that you have spent hours working on, unless you know you can prevent it. This is why everyone despises wildfires offscreen.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, abrocator said:

The game itself? Megabasing is playing the game itself.

How do you figure?

1 hour ago, Maxil20 said:

Not to make your other points moot (as you do have good ones), but I do think megabasing is a totally fair and valid reason for players to like playing the game and why they still enjoy playing it. Part of it stems from just being able to work on overkill projects you wouldn’t realistically do for practical purposes, but if you are playing for thousands of days on a given world, why not do them? 

I myself got a lot of inspiration seeing players push day counts into the thousands and seeing the bases they built with all the free time on their hands. I myself am very much a function over fashion type of person and most bases fall into the latter, but it’s still really cool to see and get inspiration for future projects/ideas.

I definitely do think other play styles are valid here (one of the main reasons I got into the game was trying to figure out how to explore and survive the ruins as they were by far the most interesting thing to me apart from the style), but I do think megabasing certainly is a big aspect for a good chunk of players to keep playing the game. However, I do feel it shouldn’t be the only incentive to keep playing and I do agree other branches of play styles should also feel enjoyable to do as well.

I don't see megabasing as a invalid way to play the game it's perfectly valid the issue is most people aren't willing to put that much effort into what megabasing requires yes it's nice to look and many will admire massive megabases but only a small minority are ever going to actually try to make them.

[abrocator]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

How do you figure?

Some people play like that. What more justification is needed?

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, abrocator said:

Some people play like that. What more justification is needed?

I think there was miscommunication somewhere I wasn't saying it wasn't a way people play.

[Mike23Ua]

48 minutes ago, ChintzyGnat said:

This explains nothing at all

I don’t understand… is DST the only game that you have ever played or something?

Here I’ll try a different example then imagine that your playing Mario Kart and your playing on a set of tracks (cup or tournament if you want to call it that..) but the developers of the game decide that they want to add more Tracks to the Tournament or Cup but the new tracks they’ve created, aren’t as hard as the last track in the current tournament cup.
 

They won’t tac these tracks on AFTER you’ve raced the hardest one, they’ll instead add them somewhere in the middle.

when it comes very specifically to DST and it’s “late-game” Rift content, Klei is trying to tac Easier Content onto something that required you to master Harder Content first.

Case in point: Anyone who can actually reach and defeat CC will never not one time will they ever have a problem with the challenges that Brightshades & Lunar Hail provide.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I disagree. Megabasing is a playstyle players were able to adapt to early on because there wasn’t enough challenges present prior to Megabasing that made Megabasing more difficult to do. And as a direct result of that- New content updates have had to well to put it nicely…

”Dance around the idea that content has to Shoe-Horn itself into fitting somewhere into the game, but also while somehow not disturbing your already established base”

This is why most content updates have felt completely optional.

and Yes I completely blame the DST Skin Economy for this, players are simply too invested in their pretty decorated up bases  to let content spawn In/Around them.

But this isn’t the same type of way we saw Klei designing their games when it came to say Solo DS or it’s two DLCs- Those added new content with very little regards to you or your base (I can just imagine the amount of complaints and nerfs people would cry for TODAY over things like Pug rummaging through their loot chests, or iron hulk parts being reanimated to life)

Hamlet is actually a pretty good dlc to bring up because you had the safety bubble of your untouchable base, while everything outside of it could become pure chaos.

Want to chop down a few trees? Sure but they may contain poisonous snakes or scorpions which if they bite you now starts bleeding your health out with poison damage over time.

Whats my point???

Imagine DS where players built bases prior to Klei adding plugged sink holes where once busted open poured bats out into your base every night.

I fear and I mean seriously fear that in “Todays” Economy of DST players that there would’ve been 1000 complaints about that and then Klei would feel pressured to make content quote “Try very hard not to spawn in your base”
*Rolls Eyes*

Im currently playing a side scrolling RogueLike game on my Xbox where the developers have issued out a statement and have said they are very much aware that it’s too easy to reach a certain “harder” map level, so they have plans to add a whole new set of levels in between Worlds 3-4.

This means that world 4 will now become world 7. and you’ll go 3 (new levels 4, 5, 6) and then return to what was previously 4 on 7.

Klei however isn’t designing DST like this… Klei is designing DST by listening to the players who are already on world 7, and then adding optional content after that.

The big problem is that some people think that protecting their 4x4 turf peasant base is a challenge and who disagrees are people that want an easy experiece but they are the 1st ones crying when they actually face true hard content

[ChintzyGnat]

32 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I don’t understand… is DST the only game that you have ever played or something?

Here I’ll try a different example then imagine that your playing Mario Kart and your playing on a set of tracks (cup or tournament if you want to call it that..) but the developers of the game decide that they want to add more Tracks to the Tournament or Cup but the new tracks they’ve created, aren’t as hard as the last track in the current tournament cup.
 

They won’t tac these tracks on AFTER you’ve raced the hardest one, they’ll instead add them somewhere in the middle.

when it comes very specifically to DST and it’s “late-game” Rift content, Klei is trying to tac Easier Content onto something that required you to master Harder Content first.

Case in point: Anyone who can actually reach and defeat CC will never not one time will they ever have a problem with the challenges that Brightshades & Lunar Hail provide.

So your argument is that klei is putting easier content after hard content. But you are also wanting content to disturb the player even though the load on a new player is already insane. You say that klei is "avoiding your base" even though it has never avoided it, you simply knew how to counter act it, which a new player has to learn.

You then complain about content being optional instead of attacking the player because "they won't go after your base", mind you something brightshades do. 

So your solution is to add more annoyance to veterans who can reach the end, while making the game infinitely tougher on the new player because you think everything is optional.

The dragonfly, while optional is very much worth the challenge as it makes the game easier for a new player and is like a gate to becoming better. There is nothing wrong with this as it creates a goal to strive for, aswell as other optional goals. Unlike adding more annoyance in "non optional content" that once conquered, just comes back again and again to annoy the player.

If content attacked the base, the game becomes repair your base for it to break again, or never place a structure until you need it. This stifles creativity in the community and annoys many players who like to relax after surpassing a challenge. 

The rifts enable both to happen, you can activate them to allow new challenging content and rewards (once things start getting more developed) or wait for the right time before your ready, or never activate it because you are fine with the current content. This also separates new challenges from noobies so they are not overwhelmed.

The only issue is the new content isn't anywhere close to being finished so you can't tell if it's gonna be easy or hard yet. But I'm sure klei will add some difficult content wether it's optional or not.

[Mike23Ua]

A new player has no business building a boat and setting sail across the sea to begin with… yet they CAN still do that, and they can get their butts handed to them once they reach Lunar Island and now have to deal with mutated shattered spiders who have Deerclops style AoE crystal attacks.

I think there’s only so much that SHOULD cater to a newer player.. but after that Good Luck.

And in a way that’s the way the games always been Day 7 hound wave = 1 or 2 hounds, Day 40+ hound wave = A lot of hounds, and probably a mini boss that endlessly spawns hounds, + Hounds with Element effects you need to be cautious and watch out for.

Im sorry but this straw-man argument that the game needs to cater to new players is falsified one.

Absolutely NOTHING stops a new player from picking Wes just cause “Oh look a cute Mime!” And then having no idea that they unintentionally choose the single worst character in the game who is purposefully designed that way.

And Catcoons, those are your friends right? Right up until you pick Webber, Wurt or Wortox and then you could be strolling through Catcoon biome in the dead of night (as newer player you’ll likely be limping around at critically low health) and get pounced unexpectedly.

But why? Why is this Catcoon chasing me? 

Why is this Rabbit screaming I’m a murderer? Why did it just change fur colors and become more horrifying looking?

Newer players don’t need to be babied into DST, they need to spawn in and figure out just like the rest of us had.. 

And even then, there’s still a very high likelihood that DST just wasn’t ever intended to be their “style” of game.

Klei is a company that SPECIALIZES in creating Niche indie games that are only EVER going to appeal to very specific target demographic, and anything more than that- would have to involve stripping the franchise of its original identity in order to casualize the holy high hades out of it.

[00petar00]

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I mean veterans are generally the ones who stick with games over the years so that's still not really accurate the goal of a dev is to convert as many new players into veterans as possible for that reason.

"Veterans" will always be the minority. The goals developers have is to make money and they will do that by selling as many copies to casuals.

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This isn't really true either veterans fight terrorbeaks more often as it's how they get nightmare fuel and same with Spider warriors as that's how they move spider dens not every action needs to overload you with rewards besides you can use a trap to instantly kill them.

How is it overloading you with rewards? This makes no sense, what I have said would basically try to even it out and make it worth killing the harder variants when currently there is no point in doing so. 

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Doesn't matter how you feel about it that's how it was intended to work besides you can bait them with more than just carrots. I'm not gonna day it's wrong to do but you should acknowledge your trying to game the system because your more experienced the game should not have to accommodate you on that it's a way for people bad at fighting to get meat 

It actually does matter what players say and it isn't me, can you find me one experienced player that is using traps with bait to get the same amount or comparable to hunger restoration like morsel? The thing is that I don't think you can find one player that is experienced that does this or maybe even If they do it is only to craft prestihatitator and have excess berries from collecting in early game but still using shovel and placing traps is better way to go about it.

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Because your arguement is illogical and based purely on your own bias.

It assumes the only player with a high day count is a megabaser.

It assumes every survival player resets their world repeatedly what is there even to gain from that?

It assumes the only people who can enjoy brightshades are people who don't interact with them.

It assumes megabasing is the only true way to play the game beyond a certain point and personally if you honestly believe that you might want to reexamine if you actually still enjoy playing the game itself.

 I get it you don't like the post rift content but much like people who don't like skill trees that doesn't make you the majority or the direction the devs should go and I don't mean this to be rude or anything it's just what it is most people simply enjoy a interactive game it's okay not to though.

The player with high daycount doen't need to be megabaser but 95-99% of them will be with 2000-5000 days. Megabasers aren't some aliens most players that play long enough can be considered megabasers even If you enjoy survival because at some point you will make it very trivial to survive and will only stay to build.

I was a survival player before I became a megabaser and I used to get bored after the first year. I don't think survival players exist that play for 1000+ days and this is a very generous estimate but to bring this point up it doesn't matter what type of player you are, if you play for thousands of days or longer you will find brightshades very boring.

I am the majority or the game wouldn't be developed in the direction that players like me want it to.

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

That fine but people want both.

I'll say it right now that won't be happening as you can see from the game development direction over the last few years.

10 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Then simply disable them in the settings or make it a ban worthy offense problem solved.

 

I don't think poorly of you but I do think a break from dst might be the best solution at least for your long term continued enjoyment.

According to what you just said following that logic that makes rifts not optional anymore. 

Telling me to take a break from DST is like telling you to do the same as game is getting easier and I don't see it becoming harder.

[ChintzyGnat]

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

A new player has no business building a boat and setting sail across the sea to begin with… yet they CAN still do that, and they can get their butts handed to them once they reach Lunar Island and now have to deal with mutated shattered spiders who have Deerclops style AoE crystal attacks.

I think there’s only so much that SHOULD cater to a newer player.. but after that Good Luck.

And in a way that’s the way the games always been Day 7 hound wave = 1 or 2 hounds, Day 40+ hound wave = A lot of hounds, and probably a mini boss that endlessly spawns hounds, + Hounds with Element effects you need to be cautious and watch out for.

Im sorry but this straw-man argument that the game needs to cater to new players is falsified one.

Absolutely NOTHING stops a new player from picking Wes just cause “Oh look a cute Mime!” And then having no idea that they unintentionally choose the single worst character in the game who is purposefully designed that way.

And Catcoons, those are your friends right? Right up until you pick Webber, Wurt or Wortox and then you could be strolling through Catcoon biome in the dead of night (as newer player you’ll likely be limping around at critically low health) and get pounced unexpectedly.

But why? Why is this Catcoon chasing me? 

Why is this Rabbit screaming I’m a murderer? Why did it just change fur colors and become more horrifying looking?

Newer players don’t need to be babied into DST, they need to spawn in and figure out just like the rest of us had.. 

And even then, there’s still a very high likelihood that DST just wasn’t ever intended to be their “style” of game.

Klei is a company that SPECIALIZES in creating Niche indie games that are only EVER going to appeal to very specific target demographic, and anything more than that- would have to involve stripping the franchise of its original identity in order to casualize the holy high hades out of it.

This is actually the worst argument I've seen yet. You go on a catcoon rant for no reason, did you die to one recently and have spite???.

My whole argument wasn't catering to new players it was about not adding more stress for them to deal with, once again something you keep wanting to do.

The early game if perfectly fine for new players. You just want to discourage megabasing for some strange reason. That was your main argument.

[grm9]

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Absolutely NOTHING stops a new player from picking Wes just cause “Oh look a cute Mime!” And then having no idea that they unintentionally choose the single worst character in the game who is purposefully designed that way

[Copyafriend]

On 7/11/2024 at 5:45 PM, Mike23Ua said:

Newer players don’t need to be babied into DST, they need to spawn in and figure out just like the rest of us had.. 

Newer players aren't being babied.

The only "babying" happening to newer players is the farming update (years old by now). none of the skilltrees make the game much easier, even if they make a character mildly stronger, newsflash: it's still the same exact game.

and most of the "strongest" skilltree content requires beating the hardest bosses in the game.

 

but ignoring all of that.

 

mike, why are you so focused on this one game and your war on it's perceived difficulty.

have you even beaten it yet? you hadn't last time I asked, and you hadn't when I've ever seen you talk about it.

 

it's a survival sandbox, yeah sure. it absolutely is.

 

but most of the endgame difficulty is in the bosses.

 

if you're not fighting the bosses, you're not playing the game, you're just re-doing the tutorial over and over.

 

to put it in a better way:

it's as if you were playing splunkey, and you got to the end of the first area, and instead of trying to continue it. you gave up and restarted the first area, and complained the game was too easy.

The rest of the game is over there, if you want the hard parts, go play the rest of the game. stop complaining about the tutorial, that's not the full game.

[Mike23Ua]

13 hours ago, ChintzyGnat said:

This is actually the worst argument I've seen yet. You go on a catcoon rant for no reason, did you die to one recently and have spite???.

My whole argument wasn't catering to new players it was about not adding more stress for them to deal with, once again something you keep wanting to do.

The early game if perfectly fine for new players. You just want to discourage megabasing for some strange reason. That was your main argument.

Why do walls and structures even take any damage at all if the game isn’t allowed to ever spawn anything that can actually damage them? This dance we’ve been doing for years is getting old.. and I’m aware I’m fighting a losing battle against the masses.

Winonas Catapults get targeted and attacked by mobs more than your actual base does these days!

At this point Klei should probably just make structures and walls indestructible because you won’t ever need to repair them anyway.

despite the fact late game it’s now raining lunar rocks from the heavens 

[Mimekoke]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Why do walls and structures even take any damage at all if the game isn’t allowed to ever spawn anything that can actually damage them? This dance we’ve been doing for years is getting old.. and I’m aware I’m fighting a losing battle against the masses.

Winonas Catapults get targeted and attacked by mobs more than your actual base does these days!

Are you aware that hound waves exist? As far as I'm aware, hounds will damage walls to get to you.

Also, comparing walls to Winona's catapults is a bad argument. Winona catapults are used for combat. They attack mobs, and mobs will target anything that has attacked them previously. That's why you can make mobs fight other mobs even though they were previously hostile towards you.

And Walls? They're usually used for base building and decorating im fairly certain they have a lower chance to have a enemy target them if a player or just about anything else is in their vision why would a hound target your walls when your right next to it unguarded? They're also probably placed away from hostile territory. You wouldn't build your base with walls around it inside a hound nest or killer bee biome, would you? I'm sure you wouldn't, because you'd get tired of using resources to constantly repair walls. The only reasons you'd want to use walls in hostile territory I can think of are for moon caller staff or dragonflys larvae. And unlike catapults, walls do not attack hostile mobs, which would lead to them getting targeted by said hostile mob for attacking it.