The bat bat doesn't deserve this nerf

[HowlVoid]

"Consistency" shouldn't come at the cost of removing established use cases. Please bring back healing from clockworks and shadow creatures.

The bat bat holds a special place in my heart and I've used it waaaaaay before Wormwood got all the changes he did. It was one of the few items that made him easy to use without having to commit to an area to farm healing items. An extraordinary synergy that saved early wormwood from being too tedious solo and relying on healing items tied to farms.

Why is this changed bad?

It completely removes one of Wormwood's play styles from being as fluid as before. 

Early Ruins (No, not rushing)

Back before Skill trees and even reap what you sow there was an established Wormwood strat. There was no 80% defence husk, no resetting traps, and no many types of seeds and self plowing machines. So Wormwood players found ways to make as much use out one of Wormwood's unique abilities, living logs. To craft a star caller before winter was not easy for the average player and for a casual player as myself there was only one item that made it possible, the bat bat.

The strat

The strat was simple, effective, and rewarded those who had skill and knowledge of the character. You could camp deep the ruins for as long as you had monster meat, and the ability to dodge the infinite amount of nightmares. With a single bat bat you could kill shadows, get living logs (also for dark swords!), collect nightmare fuel and craft staffs to your hearts content. All of this assuming you had the skill to survive it. He was a one stop shop, completely self sustaining and that's what made it fun. The more you pushed yourself, the more you learned, the more you gained, the more you had fun.

What does this change?

Wormwood can't be as self reliant, he isn't as consistent nor as fluid. It's easy to make a change that only affects a single character, and only a few players using this style of playing besides. In a world where characters can kill bosses in seconds with catapults, read books to get infinite gems, and other overpowered nonsense. 

He wouldn't be able to stay in the clockwork infested ruins. Having to spend time and resources looking for things to hit. It's possible to hit hutch only to risk him to shadow monkeys or have his items stolen (not to mention having to find him). Such a small thing that has such a big impact long term.

I know it's only a few of use affected by this change... But please reconsider.

Edit: I also don't see why this one item has to follow the rules of Wortox. This item has nothing to do with Wortox not to mention there aren't even enough items to consider it "category" that need to start following arbitrary rules that came out of left field. For what, one item + a character?

[Mysterious box]

27 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Edit: I also don't see why this one item has to follow the rules of Wortox. This item has nothing to do with Wortox not to mention there aren't even enough items to consider it "category" that need to start following arbitrary rules that came out of left field. For what, one item + a character?

Tbf I imagine this is a hint that more interactions like this might be coming so this change may have been made for retroactive consistency.

[HowlVoid]

21 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Tbf I imagine this is a hint that more interactions like this might be coming so this change may have been made for retroactive consistency.

If they make something to replace it I'd be fine with it. But idk if it can be trusted to be as easily obtainable.... Or as sustainable for wormwood. It really is such a niche synergy.

[Gashzer]

Well wormwood has gained so much power in recent times that i dont feel like this is a big nerf.

Even just the buff to bramble husk to have 80% damage resist and increased durability means wormwood can just tank kill hoards of spiders for crafting healing salves... 

Plus bat bat can still be used on dangling spiders which can act as a healing station before entering the clockwork zone of the ruins and after when you reach labyrinth.

[Mysterious box]

4 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

If they make something to replace it I'd be fine with it. But idk if it can be trusted to be as easily obtainable.... Or as sustainable for wormwood. It really is such a niche synergy.

not what I meant I mean they may be adding content that will apply the same logic

[Mike23Ua]

As a Wendy Main who used to heavily Rely on Abigail to help easily destroy hordes of Hounds in Hound Waves or Spiders from Spider Dens, I’ve been a bit bitter salty when those things were made Significantly harder to do in the form of Varglets & Spider Queens With Nurse Spiders.

So maybe I’m being a bit biased when I say this, but I originally bought Wormwood to be a character who had harder time healing.

Now with his skill tree rework he can get perks for passive healing, so maybe I’m the minority, but if Klei can add mobs that indirectly nerfs Wendy..

They can nerf items that indirectly nerf Wormwood.

[HowlVoid]

26 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Now with his skill tree rework he can get perks for passive healing

Passive healing doesn't work underground unless you have a star caller. And being stuck next to a star caller isn't something anyone but a noob is going to do. But someone who's noob enough to do that probably wouldn't be able to get a starcaller in the first place.

His passive healing doesn't factor here. More of a reason why the bat bat works wonders in a place with no sunlight. 

[Echsrick]

ok, but askin this here, dit wx alsol got this immunity in pvp that no one plays anyways? i mean they made were beaver ignore wood armor so wondering if they dit something about that aswell, and if webber is taken more health from because he is 2, if not, then it allready is not consistend and sould be back as before

[Gameplayer143]

I've seen people unironically suggest to just go back to the wilds to kill enemies with the batbat when the misses the point of rushing ruins. You're supposed to rush AG and get what you need fast, the nerf for the batbat complicates things for characters who need the healing from the batbat. You get the batbat naturally from chests in the labyrinth which can potentially be away from the wilds. And on top of that, it can potentially be wild phase where there's a bunch of enemies that want to kill you in the wilds.

[Mike23Ua]

19 minutes ago, Gameplayer143 said:

I've seen people unironically suggest to just go back to the wilds to kill enemies with the batbat when the misses the point of rushing ruins. You're supposed to rush AG and get what you need fast, the nerf for the batbat complicates things for characters who need the healing from the batbat. You get the batbat naturally from chests in the labyrinth which can potentially be away from the wilds. And on top of that, it can potentially be wild phase where there's a bunch of enemies that want to kill you in the wilds.

Don’t regular and shadow Splumonkey still give life steal?

And Bunnyman & Beard Overlord Bunnyman?

Unless I’m missing something super important… the Nerf to this item isnt as deep as you’re making it out. Yeah it means Wormwood Mains can’t exclusively rely on it but… I honestly think the entire point of WW was to have a difficult time healing anyway..?

The Bat-Bat still works, and that’ll only become more or less effective the more variety of enemy mobs Klei adds to the caves shard.

For example, The Lunar Grotto Exists now when prior to forgotten knowledges it did not, Lunar Grotto added Mushgnomes and Molebats as new Cave mobs you can smack for health Restoration with Bat-Bat.

People need to start being more logical, and less dramatic over changes.

Only Klei knows what will be added to the game 3 months from now..

[arubaro]

44 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

People need to start being more logical, and less dramatic over changes.

Ajá, logical. Oh the irony

[Cyrefy]

I think it's funny that it's a labyrinth drop and the ruins are now the worst place to use this item. 

I mean we can use it against the AG, right? if you do the prowess of taking damage from him. 

[Mr Giggio]

Justice for BatBat T__T

[Gameplayer143]

9 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Don’t regular and shadow Splumonkey still give life steal?

And Bunnyman & Beard Overlord Bunnyman?

Unless I’m missing something super important… the Nerf to this item isnt as deep as you’re making it out. Yeah it means Wormwood Mains can’t exclusively rely on it but… I honestly think the entire point of WW was to have a difficult time healing anyway..?

The Bat-Bat still works, and that’ll only become more or less effective the more variety of enemy mobs Klei adds to the caves shard.

For example, The Lunar Grotto Exists now when prior to forgotten knowledges it did not, Lunar Grotto added Mushgnomes and Molebats as new Cave mobs you can smack for health Restoration with Bat-Bat.

People need to start being more logical, and less dramatic over changes.

Only Klei knows what will be added to the game 3 months from now..

It's not like you can't just simply use the Batbat for free, it costs sanity and deals lesser damage than a tentacle spike. Currently right now the most common enemy in ruins are clockworks and shadow creatures which outnumber spiders, so currently right now it's an issue, of course I'm going to complain about it.

I don't know why you even brought up the lunar grotto when again like the wilds, requires you to backtrack away from ruins rushing, but this example is worse because generally lunar grotto is going to be the opposite side of a map from ruins.

[Mr Giggio]

16 hours ago, Gameplayer143 said:

you can't just simply use the Batbat for free

Not only those examples u gave, the fact that the craft is behind shadow manipulator, with livin logs and bats that are specific itens to have around, so after all the effort it doesnt pay off cuz honestly the place this item matters the most is exactly in ruins rush/cleaning IMO and then u have nothing there to benefit from it so u just dump the item in base like old times once is not necessary anymore. Rather jellybeans or blue caps.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Mr Giggio said:

Not only those examples u gave, the fact that the craft is behind shadow manipulator, with livin logs and bats that are specific itens to have around, so after all the effort it doesnt pay off cuz honestly the place this item matters the most is exactly in ruins rush/cleaning IMO and then u have nothing there to benefit from it so u just dump the item in base like old times once is not necessary anymore. Rather jellybeans or blue caps.

And dont forget planar entities receiving less damage from it... im waiting lazy the band aid fix for it to end up running the pleasure of using batbats