winona poll i guess

[zhangsheng]

17 minutes ago, adminaaassh said:

Firstly, this is an example. Secondly, please address or refute the reasons I mentioned, rather than making irrelevant remarks. What you said only pertains to the original game design.

你的意思是原先官方就想让Winona's Catapult只有Winona她自己能用吗？你的意思是官方一开始就是错的？然后这么多年了，他们不改全是在妥协？你是他们的内部人员，知道他们的内心想法？游玩的人习惯了之后都是将错就错吗？然后强行改正就一点毛病都没有？不会带来任何问题？所有都是合理的？而且那四个问题都没解决呢，会不会减少游戏性啊？会不会改变玩家的一些习惯啊？有没有提供更好的选择呀？这些你回答了吗？

I have no obligation or need to answer all your questions.

This is a post about Winona, but sadly, no one seems to take the character of Winona seriously. Rather than being the result of character collaboration, it is more about the effect of character collaboration with a tool. In fact, this character has not been very popular since it was created. After a reset, it made matters worse and directly became a tool for making catapults. Just as the official fixed this issue, a lot of people came forward to say it was unfair.

Who has cared about this character after all these years. Unfortunately, people only care about catapults, the "legacy" of this character.

还有，你在急什么？

[adminaaassh]

3 minutes ago, zhangsheng said:

I have no obligation or need to answer all your questions.

This is a post about Winona, but sadly, no one seems to take the character of Winona seriously. Rather than being the result of character collaboration, it is more about the effect of character collaboration with a tool. In fact, this character has not been very popular since it was created. After a reset, it made matters worse and directly became a tool for making catapults. Just as the official fixed this issue, a lot of people came forward to say it was unfair.

Who has cared about this character after all these years. Unfortunately, people only care about catapults, the "legacy" of this character.

还有，你在急什么？

我已经懒得再回复你了，这根本就不叫辩论，你只是在疯狂的输出一些没用的废话，既没有正视正方的问题，我现在只觉得你很无聊，这是最后一条回复
English translation:I'm too lazy to reply to you anymore. This isn't even a debate; you're just spouting useless nonsense without addressing the issues at hand. I find you very boring now. This will be my last response.

[00petar00]

1 hour ago, adminaaassh said:

Actually, the main logic is very simple. First, it's a matter of habit. Second, the changes do not offer a better option, only adding inconvenience without enhancing the gameplay. The opponents suggest explaining these issues clearly to make the reasoning convincing.

These were all translated using a machine translator. I'm not sure if the expressions are accurate, but based on the translation, they should be fine.

• Have better alternatives been provided?
• Has the playability of the original game decreased solely concerning the trebuchet? (Please do not mention other items introduced in this update)
• Is this a way of forcing players to choose a new character to play?
• Has this destroyed some of the original game's fun?

Opponents seem to engage in debates with like-minded individuals whose reasoning aligns with theirs, which in reality is an argument between extremes, lacking any logical basis. I would say this amounts to a farce and fundamentally does not solve the problem.

I completely agree with you but there is almost no good logical argument to use for catapults to be Winona only because this isn't a competitive game, why should I not be able to use it because someone else on the forum voted that I shouldn't because they don't like swap characters? There are players that detest celestial portal/character swapping so much and one of them makes a thread every few months on how it should be removed from the game but it is completely their choice If they use the portal, what is the logic there to make the game less fun for me and everyone that enjoys it?

We only have houndius shootius and it requiring horn is too expensive and very limiting but this won't help with farms and other setups that need AoE ability of catapults. 

If someone is willing to invest time to craft catapults at every single boss they want to use them for and swap to another character isn't there a big difference now that Winona has a skill tree and can move them so she needs to have much less? I am for all character perks being as universal as possible because characters have been such a big focus of the updates and players can only play one and not have access to so many cool abilities.

This change makes the game less fun for people that use catapults without playing Winona all the time and others that vote no basically want you to play DST in a way that they think DST should be played but the main point is that no one forces them to swap or build catapults on their worlds.

[zhangsheng]

The solution Klei has provided is this skill tree update, and I think there is no problem. It's just that this solution doesn't seem to meet the needs of factory players. But I don't think Klei will change their minds because of this, otherwise Lureplant cheese and Purple Gem cheese won't disappear.

[Mike23Ua]

7 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

Wanda is DLC Character and she requires very specific HP management unlike Winona. 

Also, even if I ignore the fact that Winona can operate the catapult more powerfully than other characters, she still has Fast Craft, Trusty Tape, Rose-Colored Glasses, and the Moon thing. Those are reason to play Winona.

And most importantly, Not give players something special for characters in updates and encourage them to play as specific characters, but take away what players were able to do before in updates and force them to play as specific characters, is a BIG BAD CHOICE(Grandiose voice and echo).

When you can explain to me why Walter wasn’t at the very minimal allowed to ferry other players around as a secondary passenger on Woby maybe then and only then will I understand your view point about wanting Winona’s Catapults to be useable by characters that aren’t Winona.

Hell when I’m NOT playing as Walter I can go out and bell Bond a Beefalo, then other players can ride and use it, but as long as the bell is in my inventory my smelly fur cow will always try to return to its bell owner after dismounting.

If this isn’t proof that most character perks are selfish abilities that do not encourage team work, then I honestly give up trying to prove my point..

However- and Because I actually wanted to be a game designer once let me ask THIS Question, What if.. instead of Winona’s Catapults being placeable structures (like Wurts Merm buildings)

What if instead Winona’s Catapults were more like Willows fire spells or using spells from the Codex Umbra? (As in an ability she can cast out before it goes on cooldown) 

2 hours ago, chaosmonkey said:

The reason she was considered a swap before was because she had nothing beyond being able to simply craft catapults, and everyone got the same benefit as she did. With the skill tree, that's changed dramatically. With her powers, the catapults are far stronger. There's actually an incentive to play her now if you enjoy catapult gameplay. Letting others continue using the base catapult functionality takes nothing away from her.

Except that it kinda defeats the entire purpose of playing as someone like Walter with Slingshots if Ohh hey cool what do you know, these catapults do the job better than my slingshots do!

I can even provide Wigfrid and Wolfgang examples if you like…

Wigfrids Elden Spear has a “Dash” built in so she can quickly kill landing birds or rabbits before they can run away.

Wolfgang (while mighty) has a Dumbell toss to smash these little birdies to smithereens with..

But those two abilities get outclassed and made useless the moment Catapults are brought into the equation.

[SilverSpoon]

15 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

What if.. instead of Winona’s Catapults being placeable structures (like Wurts Merm buildings)

What if instead Winona’s Catapults were more like Willows fire spells or using spells from the Codex Umbra? (As in an ability she can cast out before it goes on cooldown) 

Regarding that question, Yes.

But the point of what I am talking all about "Don't take away what players were able to do before". Unless it is a PvP game, What players were able to do before should not be made impossible without considerable good reason. Whether it is "other players around as a secondary passenger on Woby", "Willows fire spells or using spells", "Codex Umbra", or any other kind of thing that a player could do before, I don't care.

For example, I think that Maxwell can read WickerBottom's books is what makes WickerBottom a disposable character, but if Klei has already made the decision that he was able to make, that should not change.

I'm not a game designer, but as a full time game programmer, I have the same lesson: "Don't fix what ain't broke."

[Copyafriend]

4 hours ago, SilverSpoon said:

I'm not a game designer, but as a full time game programmer, I have the same lesson: "Don't fix what ain't broke."

well at least from a game design standpoint (and a game programming standpoint) sometimes new stuff cant emerge UNTIL you "fix whats not broke".

 

sometimes you gotta refactor the code to make it more modular/easy to read/whatever your goal is. you're not wrong, you definitely shouldnt just refactor the code just to be twiddling your thumbs. but the best games ive ever played rework systems more than they just add content. the RWYS update fixed something that technically worked just fine.

hi i'm an indie game developer, do you really work professionally as a game programmer? if so thats neat.

[SilverSpoon]

21 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

hi i'm an indie game developer, do you really work professionally as a game programmer? if so thats neat.

Is this line a personal attack?

[Copyafriend]

49 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Is this line a personal attack?

nono, I was being genuine, if you work as a game programmer I think that's neat as hell.

I was just mentioning a shared interest of sorts. though if you work professionally you obviously have much more experience than a hobbyist.