Characters craft should be "unique", but should not be "exclusive"

[Tranoze]

Play together with friends give me lots of insight on how character synergy with each other, and how fun can it be for characters to combine power to archive something people who play alone can never imagined.
When play as Wicker, i love to have bunch of Maxwell teammate cuz they can do all the reading and i just eat away all paper they farmed. I dont know why tf other Wicker want Maxwell reading ability to be gone.

Now to the main topic, Book cases is an example of unique but not exclusive building. Only book reader can use book inside book case, but everyone still can use bookcase as alchemy engine.
That is what i want, i want characters items to be unique for characters it design too, but not funtionally exclusive only for them and have some uses for other survivors.

Good character items/craft i like:
Sisturn: Free sanity for other survivor.
Lighter: Other survivor can still use it as light sources.
Thermbell: Still work as thermal stone for other.
Woodie and Wes's budget cane.
Walter's tent.

Exclusive item on other hand, take away space, and doesnt give any benefits small or big for other survivors. Especially building because players cant log out with them. If you play alone, i dont care. I want this game to still be Dont Starve Together.
Example for exclusive items, and how they can be improved:

Gym. It takes aways base's space, noone can use it, even the wolfgang who built it rarely use it, as bell are much more convenience to bring around. Why cant we just allow other survivor (except Old Wanda ofcourse) to use gym for a small (like 10% for half a day) damage boost for completing gym minigame?
Wanda's watches. I dont hate it that much as gym, but holding watches, any watches should allow players to know exact current time (show world clock) when they in cave.
Winona future teleportation building. I dont know klei, but if you make this building that only winona can use and after winona leave the game, the building still there and noone can use it in anyway, im gonna hate it. At least allow them to be used as a cheaper telelocator focus for who have tele staffs.

[paodocevoante1]

12 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

When play as Wicker, i love to have bunch of Maxwell teammate cuz they can do all the reading and i just eat away all paper they farmed. I dont know why tf other Wicker want Maxwell reading ability to be gone.
 

why we all want the character we use to be unique, this is so true that when we go to play with friends it doesn't make sense to take repeated characters, I think it's really cool that Maxwell can read Wicker's books but I think people think that because just a single character can read the same books the wicker is reduced to dust and in parts this is true but it's not all the People play as Maxwell to do this

[Tranoze]

17 hours ago, paodocevoante1 said:

the wicker is reduced to dust

With great power come great responsibility. I dont know how a solo wicker normally play, but a public world wicker cant be everywhere reading every books. Wormwood want you to read book to renew their seed. Woodie want you to read book to level up tree. Cave explorers want you to read book so it wont rain in cave. Same as rain book in surface. You have to read moon book when others wanted for full moon. Study time, you have to read 12 Everything Encyclopedia for Everyone so they have bunch of crafting stacks

Ability to read book is a burden because how much power it hold. It's a bless that Maxwell can share some of that burden when Wicker not around to read books for everyone.

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, Tranoze said:

With great power come great responsibility. I dont know how a solo wicker normally play, but a public world wicker cant be everywhere reading every books. Wormwood want you to read book to renew their seed. Woodie want you to read book to level up tree. Cave explorers want you to read book so it wont rain in cave. Same as rain book in surface. You have to read moon book when others wanted for full moon. Study time, you have to read 12 Everything Encyclopedia for Everyone so they have bunch of crafting stacks

Ability to read book is a burden because how much power it hold. It's a bless that Maxwell can share some of that burden when Wicker not around to read books for everyone.

This applies to most characters and you don't see people asking for those character's abilities to be given to other characters in the entirety.

[Tranoze]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This applies to most characters and you don't see people asking for those character's abilities to be given to other characters in the entirety.

Who and what power?
Right now only wicker book can instantly grow massive amount of plants. (Other still can wait and harvest but took longer)
Only wicker book can turn on/off rain. (telelocator staff can turn on rain, but not turn off)
Only wicker book can change moon cycle when it not moon storm.
...
Wicker's book hold too much power that is unique and the effects cant be replicated by other survivor. Let look at other survivor's unique power:

Wendy abigail can buff team, but also Wigfrid, Warly, Wortox (Either heal/damage boost...).
Wendy can mass kill/farm spider, but so as Webber, Willow, Maxwell. If wendy not there to farm silk/spiders, there are other character still can do it.
Wormwood can plant farm everywhere, but everyone still can use farm plants.
Wolfgang can kill boss fast, but also Wanda/Wigfrids/Wendy(depend on some bosses)...
Wormwood can craft living log, but woodie can also make treeguard idol to farm living logs

Only Wurt can build merm house, but its fair since other still can kill merm to farm fish/morsel from merm houses.
Wurt can use merm to farm logs, but other still can farm logs fast, hire pig man, or summon minions.

On all other survivor, none of the ability are that great and unique compare to Wicker, especially for a base. Being able to read book is not the entirely kit. Wicker still immune to sleep in combat. Wicker still can craft book on the go while maxwell can only use pre-crafted books. Book in bookcase still recover faster when wicker is there, allow constant reading in some farm cases.
Reading book is a double edge sword to wicker. By costing sanity, each time reading book, wicker have to deal with shadow that follow. Allowing other to read book give newbies wicker better times, when all they need is to craft books, and Max will deal with shadow for wicker. It is a pain when you have to read books 100 times without proper armor/gears, especially without bone helm.

[ChintzyGnat]

48 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

Who and what power?
Right now only wicker book can instantly grow massive amount of plants. (Other still can wait and harvest but took longer)
Only wicker book can turn on/off rain. (telelocator staff can turn on rain, but not turn off)
Only wicker book can change moon cycle when it not moon storm.
...
Wicker's book hold too much power that is unique and the effects cant be replicated by other survivor. Let look at other survivor's unique power:

Wendy abigail can buff team, but also Wigfrid, Warly, Wortox (Either heal/damage boost...).
Wendy can mass kill/farm spider, but so as Webber, Willow, Maxwell. If wendy not there to farm silk/spiders, there are other character still can do it.
Wormwood can plant farm everywhere, but everyone still can use farm plants.
Wolfgang can kill boss fast, but also Wanda/Wigfrids/Wendy(depend on some bosses)...
Wormwood can craft living log, but woodie can also make treeguard idol to farm living logs

Only Wurt can build merm house, but its fair since other still can kill merm to farm fish/morsel from merm houses.
Wurt can use merm to farm logs, but other still can farm logs fast, hire pig man, or summon minions.

On all other survivor, none of the ability are that great and unique compare to Wicker, especially for a base. Being able to read book is not the entirely kit. Wicker still immune to sleep in combat. Wicker still can craft book on the go while maxwell can only use pre-crafted books. Book in bookcase still recover faster when wicker is there, allow constant reading in some farm cases.
Reading book is a double edge sword to wicker. By costing sanity, each time reading book, wicker have to deal with shadow that follow. Allowing other to read book give newbies wicker better times, when all they need is to craft books, and Max will deal with shadow for wicker. It is a pain when you have to read books 100 times without proper armor/gears, especially without bone helm.

Idk man the burden of wes speed balloons is pretty tough.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Who and what power?
Right now only wicker book can instantly grow massive amount of plants. (Other still can wait and harvest but took longer)
Only wicker book can turn on/off rain. (telelocator staff can turn on rain, but not turn off)
Only wicker book can change moon cycle when it not moon storm.
...
Wicker's book hold too much power that is unique and the effects cant be replicated by other survivor. Let look at other survivor's unique power:

Wendy abigail can buff team, but also Wigfrid, Warly, Wortox (Either heal/damage boost...).
Wendy can mass kill/farm spider, but so as Webber, Willow, Maxwell. If wendy not there to farm silk/spiders, there are other character still can do it.
Wormwood can plant farm everywhere, but everyone still can use farm plants.
Wolfgang can kill boss fast, but also Wanda/Wigfrids/Wendy(depend on some bosses)...
Wormwood can craft living log, but woodie can also make treeguard idol to farm living logs

Only Wurt can build merm house, but its fair since other still can kill merm to farm fish/morsel from merm houses.
Wurt can use merm to farm logs, but other still can farm logs fast, hire pig man, or summon minions.

On all other survivor, none of the ability are that great and unique compare to Wicker, especially for a base. Being able to read book is not the entirely kit. Wicker still immune to sleep in combat. Wicker still can craft book on the go while maxwell can only use pre-crafted books. Book in bookcase still recover faster when wicker is there, allow constant reading in some farm cases.
Reading book is a double edge sword to wicker. By costing sanity, each time reading book, wicker have to deal with shadow that follow. Allowing other to read book give newbies wicker better times, when all they need is to craft books, and Max will deal with shadow for wicker. It is a pain when you have to read books 100 times without proper armor/gears, especially without bone helm.

• Only Maxwell can bind bosses with his cage which trivializes some boss fights.
• Only Maxwell can forcefully change mobs into their nightmare variant while forcing them to drop fuel which is extremely good for fuel farms.
• Only Wanda can teleport groups of players between shards which has a absurd amount of utility the longer the server goes on.
• Only Woodie can make tree guard idols which are useful for more than just making living logs.
• Interestingly despite not being the best Woodie's hard hat and walking stick tend to be in high demand as well.
• Only Wortox can aoe heal your teammates.
• Only Webber has access to a healer follower.
• Only Wigfrid has perks related to beefalos.
• Only Wormwood can craft plants a megabaser's dream perk.
• Only Willow can use fire without dealing with the consequences of using fire.
• Willow's fireballs work as a really great sanity station and a free dwarf star before ever entering the ruins making them ideal for newer players.

There's probably plenty more things but those are just off the top of my head some are more useful than others but besides that I rarely see anyone ask for Wickerbottom to read books and this is even when I myself am playing her. Her abilities are nice but most people just don't have much use for them in the day to day to the point many times some will offer to use their abilities rather than the other way around while explaining their benefits.

Woodie is usually traveling for chopping and by the time he's made a lumberyard he's usually got a massive amount of logs already and so not in a rush to speed the growth of trees. Basically noone ever asks for the everything encyclopedia most don't even realize you can bypass magic stations with it. Rain rituals is good but most people can live without it as it's uses outside of 2 specific scenarios are fairly niche requiring a specific playstyle combined with character synergizes to make the best use of it and by the time she gets access to the rain book most servers have already explored the caves or just flat out don't care to use it for caves. Wickerbottom makes survival easier but people generally aren't flagging her down to do stuff that's usually what happens to Wormwood since people usually see him as the server's designated farmer and living log producer.

The Wicker sanity downside generally isn't as big of a issue as you'd think cactus are very readily available and her books allow her to mass produce sanity restoring foods leading to a net positive when it comes to reading but that's even before considering the upside to Willow's skill tree making her more popular as Bernie works as a great body guard for Wickerbottom when she's reading.

[Mike23Ua]

They very fact that Willow can give other Non-Willow players Bernie Dolls but those can not enlarge and turn into big Bernie without a Nearby Willow player is how I prove that player perks being both Unique & Exclusive are what makes picking your character in the first place, fun..

I can further seal this evidence by stating that even though other players can be given Abigail’s Flower, and they can pick up Wendy’s exclusive crafting resource currency Mourning Glories- Only Wendy can actually Summon Abigail from the flower or use the resource to craft potions.

[Tranoze]

7 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

• Only Maxwell can bind bosses with his cage which trivializes some boss fights.
• Only Maxwell can forcefully change mobs into their nightmare variant while forcing them to drop fuel which is extremely good for fuel farms.
• Only Wanda can teleport groups of players between shards which has a absurd amount of utility the longer the server goes on.
• Only Woodie can make tree guard idols which are useful for more than just making living logs.
• Interestingly despite not being the best Woodie's hard hat and walking stick tend to be in high demand as well.
• Only Wortox can aoe heal your teammates.
• Only Webber has access to a healer follower.
• Only Wigfrid has perks related to beefalos.
• Only Wormwood can craft plants a megabaser's dream perk.
• Only Willow can use fire without dealing with the consequences of using fire.
• Willow's fireballs work as a really great sanity station and a free dwarf star before ever entering the ruins making them ideal for newer players.

Here:
Bright shade armor can bind all bosses in thorn cage.
Everyone can face mobs in their night mare variant either through sanity management or waiting in ruin.
True
Everyone can burn tree guard idol, so same logic apply to "can use but cant craft (maxwell can use book but cant craft book)"
Everyone can use Woodie's hat and walking stick.
Wigfrid can AOE heal teammates. Webber can AOE heal teammates (thanks for your reminder)
Healer followers healing teammates give the same benefit as aoe heal teammate. For healing spiders, everyone can catch healing spider with a trap and use them to heal spiders.
Everyone can use Wigfrid's saddle. Everyone can use Wigfird's tamed beef after she finished taming.
Everyone can use Berries and crafted plants from wormwood.
Everyone can craft dragon scale armor.
Dwaftstar is just a campfire with sanity. Willow still need to kill burning enemies in order to get the materials needed (2 logs 3 grass or 2 burning enemies)

So far I only found 1 true exclusive ability in them:
Wanda's group teleport.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Bright shade armor can bind all bosses in thorn cage.

While this is technically true the functions are fairly exclusive unless your group is constantly throwing Wormwood in harms way to be a discount Maxwell.

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Everyone can face mobs in their night mare variant either through sanity management or waiting in ruin.

That's ignoring what I said Maxwell forces their drops to include nightmare fuel on top of ignoring sanity or ruin cycles which is really good for nightmare fuel farms.

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Wigfrid can AOE heal teammates. Webber can AOE heal teammates (thanks for your reminder)
Healer followers healing teammates give the same benefit as aoe heal teammate. For healing spiders, everyone can catch healing spider with a trap and use them to heal spiders.

Webber's doesn't heal non spiders nor does his version cost resources the uniqueness comes from the implementation unless you consider Wickerbottom's and Wortox's teleport the same because they both you know teleport?

 

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

For healing spiders, everyone can catch healing spider with a trap and use them to heal spiders.

Also this is on the same level as everyone has 2x damage because you can switch to Wolfgang and use 2x damage therefore even Wilson has 2x damage.

1 hour ago, Tranoze said:

Here:
Bright shade armor can bind all bosses in thorn cage.
Everyone can face mobs in their night mare variant either through sanity management or waiting in ruin.
True
Everyone can burn tree guard idol, so same logic apply to "can use but cant craft (maxwell can use book but cant craft book)"
Everyone can use Woodie's hat and walking stick.
Wigfrid can AOE heal teammates. Webber can AOE heal teammates (thanks for your reminder)
Healer followers healing teammates give the same benefit as aoe heal teammate. For healing spiders, everyone can catch healing spider with a trap and use them to heal spiders.
Everyone can use Wigfrid's saddle. Everyone can use Wigfird's tamed beef after she finished taming.
Everyone can use Berries and crafted plants from wormwood.
Everyone can craft dragon scale armor.
Dwaftstar is just a campfire with sanity. Willow still need to kill burning enemies in order to get the materials needed (2 logs 3 grass or 2 burning enemies)

So far I only found 1 true exclusive ability in them:
Wanda's group teleport.

I was gonna say more but now that I think more on it woudn't it mean Wickerbottom isn't unique by your standard either? People could just make larger fields of resources to go around Wicker's horticulture and silviculture. People could just use drawf stars and fire balls to replace her light book, they could just craft the proper stations instead of using her knowledge book, and so on.

[Tranoze]

52 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

People could just make larger fields of resources to go around Wicker's horticulture and silviculture. People could just use drawf stars and fire balls to replace her light book, they could just craft the proper stations instead of using her knowledge book, and so on.

Time is a resource. Not everyone play 20 hours of DST per day, i dont know about everyone schedule but most of my friends can only play on evening after work. Often that only 1 year of gameplay, and often, because we play on klei pub, we have to start all over again from first autumn.
This is where wicker's ability to rapid growth and rapid farm coming in. Grass dont grow in winter, so for first winter, if you want enough grass to feed 12 people (again, we play in klei pub) Wicker's book is only way for everyone to get enough grasses.
And this is why maxwell's ability to read become important. He can read book with less consequences. He only need to kill 2 shadow to get out of shadow agroo range, unlike wicker have to constantly kill shadows after she reached 0 sanity. We shared jobs, maxwell will read books, while wicker and other will go gather materials for more books.
 

 

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Webber's doesn't heal non spiders nor does his version cost resources the uniqueness comes from the implementation unless you consider Wickerbottom's and Wortox's teleport the same because they both you know teleport?

Strange, i remembered that when i played with a webber friend that has friendly nurse spiders, i got heal from them. Too lazy to test it out though, as i rarely have friend who wanna play as webber.

[ChintzyGnat]

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Also this is on the same level as everyone has 2x damage because you can switch to Wolfgang and use 2x damage therefore even Wilson has 2x damage.

????? That's not even close he just said other can grab the heal spider and drop it for other webbers.