Scrappy Scavengers Update

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Tbh your strat of walking AFW to the edge if the arena looks dumb

???

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

you are cheating using hp bar and do you really expect people to count hits?

i do, i've also said that you can just start going away after he casts spikes falling nearby the ancient gateway twice and miss out on a few hits worth of damage at worst, counting to 33 isn't hard

23 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Bit selfish of you caring only for minimum gear gameplay for the top 99% of elite dst players instead of caring about the rest of us

should've sent that as a separate message, didn't see because of the edit, i've already told you how the fight could be made easier without making it much easier and less interesting for everyone and you can already kill him skilllessly

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Like you are pulling at straws trying to defend ancient fuelweaver in its current state

you're complaining about p2 which hp bar wasn't even remotely relevant for, it's just maximizing amount of damage that you deal before he summons unseen hands so it doesn't end up being a 2 cycle if he eats a woven shadow

should also probably move that to somewhere else since it's not even remotely related to the 1st message in the thread now

[Gashzer]

Just now, grm9 said:

???

DST is a game of aesthetics. Its why we all bought the game because the artstyle is amazing. The way you fight AFW clinging to the side of the arena is aesthetically dumb and its a terrible arguement to expect everyone else to fight ancient fuelweaver like this instead of Klei just nerfing him.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

DST is a game of aesthetics. Its why we all bought the game because the artstyle is amazing

i didn't, i play the game to have fun, not to look at something that looks good, perhaps watch a movie instead of playing a game if you want that

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

The way you fight AFW clinging to the side of the arena is aesthetically dumb

no? it makes sense to lure him there away from stuff that's crawling to him from the middle

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

its a terrible arguement to expect everyone else to fight ancient fuelweaver like this instead of Klei just nerfing him

i don't, there are many more ways to kill him, abigail, bramble husk, soul hop, lazy explorer, nightmare amulet, brightshade staff, weather pains, bramble traps, backstep clock, wigfrid's spear, lunar fire etc.

[Gashzer]

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i didn't, i play the game to have fun, not to look at something that looks good, perhaps watch a movie instead of playing a game if you want that

Fun for you is maximum efficiency but that isnt fun for alot of people. 

Ancient fuelweaver is just not fun hence why people cheese it if they can.

My suggestion about his nerf is a fair compromise, you get slightly negatively effected but the rest of us benefit alot. Fair trade for klei.

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

no? it makes sense to lure him there away from stuff that's crawling to him from the middle

Makes sense but looks dumb.

14 minutes ago, grm9 said:

i don't, there are many more ways to kill him, abigail, bramble husk, soul hop, lazy explorer, nightmare amulet, brightshade staff, weather pains, bramble traps, backstep clock, wigfrid's spear, lunar fire etc.

Ancient fuelweaver should be balanced for wilson. And right now hes too much of a resource sink when solo and on consoles.

May i ask do you buy skins grm9?

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Fun for you is maximum efficiency but that isnt fun for alot of people

not necessarily, fighting FW that way would've been fun even if it would've been inefficient

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ancient fuelweaver is just not fun hence why people cheese it if they can

not everyone do that and people that do probably think that killing him requires lazy explorer, nightmare amulet and weather pains/brightshade staff without even trying to figure out or find other ways to kill him that'd be more fun for them

4 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

My suggestion about his nerf is a fair compromise, you get slightly negatively effected but the rest of us benefit alot. Fair trade for klei

a lot of people don't do minimal gear FW but still like fighting him so most people might not even want him to become simpler

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Makes sense but looks dumb

a giant bipedal cyclops deer smiling looks dumb, what now?

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ancient fuelweaver should be balanced for wilson. And right now hes too much of a resource sink when solo and on consoles

it's just a 3-4 cycle instead of 1 cycle as wolfgang, is everything that got used in the video too much if it's tripled?

8 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

May i ask do you buy skins grm9?

are you going to say that i'm not worth listening to because i don't? skins look out of place and odd, so i don't, i only use a few for items that are exceptionally ugly with default skin but the skins that i use for them aren't even a part of the same pack, so i don't get a chance to buy something that i'd like, if the argument is that people that are good at the game and rush stuff never buy skins then look at anyone doing ruins on a pub or at any speedrun, they all have skins for football helm, ham bat, lantern, science, alchemy, marble armor, their character etc.

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

are you going to say that i'm not worth listening to because i don't? skins look out of place and odd, so i don't, i only use a few for items that are exceptionally ugly with default skin but the skins that i use for them aren't even a part of the same pack, so i don't get a chance to buy something that i'd like, if the argument is that people that are good at the game and rush stuff never buy skins then look at anyone doing ruins on a pub or at any speedrun, they all have skins for football helm, ham bat, lantern, science, alchemy, marble armor, their character etc.

Not saying that but is it is interesting that people with 5000+ hours in dst might have never even paid for a skin pack. I used to buy all the skin packs not because i was gonna use them but out of support for Klei, that stopped when JoeW temp banned me on the forums tho 

Grm9 do you think more or less of dst players would be happy with that minor nerf i suggested for afw?

Cause at the end of the day its not about us its about everyone.

[grm9]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:26 AM, Gashzer said:

Grm9

why do you constantly specify my nickname? i'm not going to forget that it's a response to me midway through reading the message

On 4/26/2024 at 11:26 AM, Gashzer said:

do you think more or less of dst players would be happy with that minor nerf i suggested for afw?

idk, we don't have statistics and forums only have people that either played the game for a while or are unhappy about something 

[Gashzer]

20 minutes ago, grm9 said:

why do you constantly specify my name? i'm not going to forget that it's a response to me midway through reading the message

 

You know what grm9, i never really thought about it too much but i guess i do

21 minutes ago, grm9 said:

idk, we don't have statistics and forums only have people that either played the game for a while or are unhappy about something 

Well if you had to go one way or the other? More people unhappy or more people happy?

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Well if you had to go one way or the other? More people unhappy or more people happy?

either about evenly or a bit more unhappy because you see people screaming about uncompromising often, some people would also not care because they might not know what FW is because they're new, half the time i activate shadow rifts on pubs most people don't know what they are

[Gashzer]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

either about evenly or a bit more unhappy because you see people screaming about uncompromising often, some people would also not care because they might not know what FW is because they're new, half the time i activate shadow rifts on pubs most people don't know what they are

Fair enough. 

Guess even if klei nerfed AFW it wouldnt matter because most people dont make it that far in the game lol

[CrimsonStrider]

@grm9

Dude, your refusal to listen to every console player is absurd.

First off, the method of dodging the bone cage isn't even an intuitive thing. For all intents and purposes, you have to be searching for YT guides. Every YT video I've seen where people dodge bone cages is filled with comments like “why isn't he using bone cage?”

Second, do you see that spot when Wolfgang is standing between AFW and the woven shadows at 1:11ish and 1:19ish? On console, the game will more than likely have you target fuelweaver. You'll get hit by his shield, then he'll bone cage you.

 

3rd, I'm pretty sure I also mentioned it takes literally 5 minutes to rollback on Switch. On top of being buggy in caves. Sometimes the game will crash and you get rolled back an additional day. Right now there are a lot of “software has closed due to an error” which rolls you back a day, takes 3 to 5 to start the game, and then 3 to 5 minutes to host the game. This makes learning this strategy a PITA. 

It's not a reasonable expectation to assume console players can learn that strategy, let alone learn to do it consistently. Then there are all the other difficulties with inventory management.

 

[grm9]

12 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

@grm9

it didn't work and i didn't get a notification

12 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Dude, your refusal to listen to every console player is absurd

i've asked them about why is FW harder on console in comparison to PC and they've started talking about entirely unrelated stuff about lazy explorer and weather pains that aren't required

12 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

First off, the method of dodging the bone cage isn't even an intuitive thing

that's an issue with the fight, they should add some sort of clue about that

12 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Second, do you see that spot when Wolfgang is standing between AFW and the woven shadows at 1:11ish and 1:19ish? On console, the game will more than likely have you target fuelweaver. You'll get hit by his shield, then he'll bone cage you

that's an issue with the controls then, it should get fixed instead of FW becoming easier

12 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Then there are all the other difficulties with inventory management

don't need it, i only swap stuff twice during the fight while FW is busy doing stuff and i can stand still, you could also just use thule club, magi and thule crowns for the entire fight to not need to swap, i've only used dark sword and night armor because thule club is worse than 68 damage weapons with a damage multiplier and you get both from shadow pieces

12 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

3rd, I'm pretty sure I also mentioned it takes literally 5 minutes to rollback on Switch. On top of being buggy in caves. Sometimes the game will crash and you get rolled back an additional day. Right now there are a lot of “software has closed due to an error” which rolls you back a day, takes 3 to 5 to start the game, and then 3 to 5 minutes to host the game. This makes learning this strategy a PITA

another issue that's entirely unrelated to FW

[CrimsonStrider]

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

another issue that's entirely unrelated to FW

It's entirely relevant. You can realistically practice this fight on PC due to console commands and better performance. On Switch, trying to practice this fight is incredibly frustrating because of the reasons mentioned. 

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

don't need it, i only swap stuff twice during the fight while FW is busy doing stuff and i can stand still, you

Because you're not playing on console and refuse to admit you have no understanding of the differences.

Go watch Lardee's Wes boss rush on his lardeeclips channel. Go to the AFW section. Lardee is a really good player, and he failed multiple times when trying to dodge bone cage. You have incredibly unrealistic expectations.

Specifically look at 3:19:46. He gets bone caged. He uses the LE to go next to AFW, and is able to attack the wovens. On Switch, I'd either teleport behind him, one tile to his side, or outside the arena. Additionally, if I stood in that position, I would be completely unable to attack the woven. AFW would easily eat all those woven. 

As for standing still, there's no way to express how slow inventory adjustment is on console. YOU don't need to swap anything, but the people that do, get bottlenecked at this point unless they have auto pause on.

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

that's an issue with the controls then, it should get fixed instead of FW becoming easier

Yes, that is an issue that should be fixed.  There's no clear solution. I'm not suggesting AFW be made easier mind you. I'm just calling out your refusal to acknowledge how different AFW is on console.

I think lureplants are lame. I don't use them.  But I totally get why some do. It doesn't hurt me one bit if someone is using that method in their world. That keeps AFW as is, while giving less invested players a way to manage.

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

an issue with the fight, they should add some sort of clue about that

Assuming it is an intended mechanic. Also, why should they add a clue to this but not to any other fight?

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

asked them about why is FW harder on console in comparison to PC and they've started talking about entirely unrelated stuff about lazy explorer and weather pains that aren't required

Again, you have very unrealistic expectations with what people should be able to do.

As for LE/WP, these are used to control AFW and keep him away from wovens. This is the standard method for the majority of players, and these two items do not work correctly on console, which is why everyone complains about them.

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

It's entirely relevant. You can realistically practice this fight on PC due to console commands and better performance. On Switch, trying to practice this fight is incredibly frustrating because of the reasons mentioned

that isn't a reason to change FW, that's a reason to optimize the game because loading times aren't nearly as bad even on 2012 PCs

7 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Because you're not playing on console and refuse to admit you have no understanding of the differences

i've asked about them and i've told you what they said, they haven't said what you said

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Go watch Lardee's boss rush on his lardeeclips channel. Go to the AFW section. Lardee is a really good player, and he failed multiple times when trying to dodge bone cage. You have incredibly unrealistic expectations

so? i wouldn't be surprised if they simply haven't practiced enough because they don't need it because most characters can only realistically do FW after winter starts so you'll be able to get a lazy explorer easily anyway, they've also made lazy explorer and weather pain work properly with controllers recently according to patch notes so you can do that on console too

12 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

As for standing still, there's no way to express how slow inventory adjustment is on console. YOU don't need to swap anything, but the people that do, get bottlenecked at this point unless they have auto pause on

they've also mentioned changing that recently in patch notes so idk, i've also seen a few videos from a few years ago with console FW fights and they've been able to swap between weather pain, lazy explorer and a weapon so idk

15 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

There's no clear solution

just make it work identically in comparison to holding F with a keyboard?

15 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I'm just calling out your refusal to acknowledge how different AFW is on console

i've asked someone else in this thread about that and they haven't said what you said

16 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Assuming it is an intended mechanic

if they're going to remove it that'd be extremely lame and pointless

16 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Also, why should they add a clue to this but not to any other fight?

about what?

17 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

As for LE/WP, these are used to control AFW and keep him away from wovens

do you think that i don't know that? no, lazy explorer is used for getting out of bone cage and weather pain is used for killing woven shadows

18 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Again, you have very unrealistic expectations with what people should be able to do

they don't need to, they can get brightshade staff/gunpowder/previously lureplant and spider egg if they don't want to

19 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

these two items do not work correctly on console, which is why everyone complains about them

[CrimsonStrider]

I never said change AFW. Stop putting words into my mouth. 

You don't even play on console. Don't quote a post and assume things are fixed. 

2012 PCs? Stop speaking crap. You can't comprehend what I said? You continously mention being able to do this fight without WP or LE. I'm pointing out how tedious it would be to practice on Switch and maybe other consoles. Do you not get that?

The reason “others” don't say what I'm saying is because they can't articulate the issue correctly. 

Why do you get to decide what's lame to remove? A console player that's never dodged a bone cage wouldn't care at all if that mechanic was removed, would they? 

Yes, I do think you don't know what you're talking about. Why not just sit in a bone cage and tank? 

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

they don't need to, they can get brightshade staff/gunpowder/previously lureplant and spider egg if they don't want to

I'm addressing you constantly insinuating that you don't need x to do AFW, as though it's a reasonable expectation. My whole issue with everything you're saying stems from the other topic on the lureplant change.

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

so? i wouldn't be surprised if they simply haven't practiced enough

What do you mean “so?”. That's the whole damn point. Lardee is a very experienced player. Better than the majority of people that will ever touch this game. It's not a simple thing to do. It requires a lot of practice. It's not feasible to practice on console with the current issues. The lureplant change sucks for console players. Why is that so hard to see?

 

[Mike23Ua]

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

that isn't a reason to change FW, that's a reason to optimize the game because loading times aren't nearly as bad even on 2012 PCs

i've asked about them and i've told you what they said, they haven't said what you said

so? i wouldn't be surprised if they simply haven't practiced enough because they don't need it because most characters can only realistically do FW after winter starts so you'll be able to get a lazy explorer easily anyway, they've also made lazy explorer and weather pain work properly with controllers recently according to patch notes so you can do that on console too

they've also mentioned changing that recently in patch notes so idk, i've also seen a few videos from a few years ago with console FW fights and they've been able to swap between weather pain, lazy explorer and a weapon so idk

just make it work identically in comparison to holding F with a keyboard?

i've asked someone else in this thread about that and they haven't said what you said

if they're going to remove it that'd be extremely lame and pointless

about what?

do you think that i don't know that? no, lazy explorer is used for getting out of bone cage and weather pain is used for killing woven shadows

they don't need to, they can get brightshade staff/gunpowder/previously lureplant and spider egg if they don't want to

Uhm… I feel like your forgetting a few very important things, first of all the patch you linked here mentions a Hotfix for Scrappy Werepig… while Nintendo Switch players do not even yet have the content update that adds the Scrappy Werepig, much less the Hotfix that came out to fix him after that.

So in the politest way I can possibly say this, No… Switch players do not yet have any of the Weather Pain, Teleportation changes or Faster inventory switching QoL changes Klei made in that hotfix yet.

But…. For Klei to have had to have made all those changes specifically just to make AFW more do-able on consoles, is a pretty clear indication that his fight (as well as items intended to be used during his fight) could use some tweaks & improvements.

One more thing I should probably add is that over the past roughly year or so, Klei has been doing extensive work with character skill trees to almost, if not entirely remove character downsides. Or to lessen the Harshness of existing gameplay mechanics like Summer by adding a ton of newer items that make the seasons more manageable (such as the tall canopies) so it only seems logical that the big and bad bosses are going to “Eventually” be on this same chopping block.

I got a very very strong feeling that you won’t like many of the changes Klei’s going to be doing to make them more accessible &/or easier too. But Klei has to make a game that’s enjoyable for the majority of players (not just me or you..) and that’s why we’re currently witnessing things like Downsides getting removed or significant changes to what we’re used to.

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I never said change AFW. Stop putting words into my mouth

you've responded to a conversation about making him easier, what do you want then?

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

You don't even play on console. Don't quote a post and assume things are fixed

i've told you why i thought that what i said was true

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

2012 PCs? Stop speaking crap

all parts of my PC except RAM are from 2012 and loading times are much faster than 5 mins

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

You can't comprehend what I said? You continously mention being able to do this fight without WP or LE. I'm pointing out how tedious it would be to practice on Switch and maybe other consoles. Do you not get that?

that's a problem with loading times, not the boss, i thought that you wanted FW to become easier since you responded to a conversation about making him easier

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Why do you get to decide what's lame to remove?

is it not obvious enough that lame means that i think that it's lame because lame is usually only used when talking about what you think about stuff instead of objective stuff?

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

A console player that's never dodged a bone cage wouldn't care at all if that mechanic was removed, would they? 

that's why i said that it'd be pointless, you'd ruin some people's fun and not impact everyone else at all

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I'm addressing you constantly insinuating that you don't need x to do AFW, as though it's a reasonable expectation. My whole issue with everything you're saying stems from the other topic on the lureplant change

i've said that lureplants cheese didn't need to get removed so idk what was the issue back then, it's an option if you think that waiting for spring requires too much time

9 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

What do you mean “so?”. That's the whole damn point. Lardee is a very experienced player. Better than the majority of people that will ever touch this game. It's not a simple thing to do. It requires a lot of practice. It's not feasible to practice on console with the current issues. The lureplant change sucks for console players. Why is that so hard to see?

i've said that they didn't need to remove lureplants cheese and being good at doing normal playthroughs with killing FW in winter or later is unrelated to being good at doing minimal gear FW since you'd only normally do it if you're doing FW in autumn

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Uhm… I feel like your forgetting a few very important things, first of all the patch you linked here mentions a Hotfix for Scrappy Werepig… while Nintendo Switch players do not even yet have the content update that adds the Scrappy Werepig, much less the Hotfix that came out to fix him after that.

So in the politest way I can possibly say this, No… Switch players do not yet have any of the Weather Pain, Teleportation changes or Faster inventory switching QoL changes Klei made in that hotfix yet.

But…. For Klei to have had to have made all those changes specifically just to make AFW more do-able on consoles, is a pretty clear indication that his fight (as well as items intended to be used during his fight) could use some tweaks & improvements.

One more thing I should probably add is that over the past roughly year or so, Klei has been doing extensive work with character skill trees to almost, if not entirely remove character downsides. Or to lessen the Harshness of existing gameplay mechanics like Summer by adding a ton of newer items that make the seasons more manageable (such as the tall canopies) so it only seems logical that the big and bad bosses are going to “Eventually” be on this same chopping block.

I got a very very strong feeling that you won’t like many of the changes Klei’s going to be doing to make them more accessible &/or easier too. But Klei has to make a game that’s enjoyable for the majority of players (not just me or you..) and that’s why we’re currently witnessing things like Downsides getting removed or significant changes to what we’re used to

brightshade staff already exists for cheesing FW so idk how are they going to make him easier or why

[loonreaper]

The other consoles just got an update an hour ago. The fact that this thread isn't a chorus of Switch players complaining about the lack of an update is amusing.

[CrimsonStrider]

@grm9

In my defense, it wasn't entirely clear what your position was in the other topic, but after re-reading it I see that you weren't suggesting lureplants be removed or taking away the methods people use to fight AFW. And it's now clear that you're against people changing AFW to make it easier. I agree with you on both matters, with a small caveat regarding changing AFW.

I am against you responding to people on console having issues with AFW by saying LE/WP isn't even needed, and I'm going to continue arguing against for these reasons. 

The strategy of running AFW around the arena without a LE/WP and no other method of getting out of bone cage is a very advanced strategy. When someone is already struggling with an easier method, its not helpful to suggest something even harder. It's also not helpful to suggest such a strategy without explaining what needs to be done in detail.

I haven't been able to play on Switch for the last week, so I've been practicing this method on PC and I cannot get it down consistently enough to consider it a viable thing for me to try. I already practiced for almost an entire day on console a month ago or so, and I've been doing practice sessions on PC that last about an hour or so for the past 4-5 days on PC. There is always one instance of him doing bone cage early, or very late, or a woven shadow appearing at a very bad spot, that causes a chain reaction of him bending over and going back to phase 1.

Going back to a point you brushed aside, it's very easy for me to just spam c_give("whatever") to just sit in the atrium and do nothing but practice. I practice for about 5 in-game days straight, then I roll back. It's a very fast process where I can focus on practice. On console, I wouldn't be able to just spawn in a bunch of banana shakes and gear to make it easy to practice this, and as mentioned, rolling back would be a bigger hassle. Yes, you're right, they should fix performance related stuff, but that doesn't mean that these performance issues aren't a valid thing to consider. To be clear, I'm not saying make the fight easier because rolling back sucks on switch. I'm saying it acts as a major deterrent to practice this fight, because rolling back sucks on switch, so I don't expect many people to have much practice against AFW or be interested in practicing against him. As such, suggesting a very complicated way of attempting this fight is not helpful.

All I'm asking you to do, is to stop suggesting this method to struggling console players and recognize that for its own set of reasons, this fight is very hard on these platforms. It doesn't matter that some people can solo it. I can solo it. It's still a much harder thing to do on console. Sometimes, I think, when I see people complaining about something, they're not doing a very good job at explaining what's happening, and that results in people perhaps saying really wrong things about the issue, but one commonality is that very few people have good things to say about AFW on console. 

The caveat being that I can't see how you can adjust this fight for console without making the fight "easier". The only thing that makes AFW difficult is that he can heal, and thus the most difficult part is keeping him away from the woven, which proves to much harder to do on console.

Maybe they could make a console only change. There are already weird differences between console and PC. For instance, on console, mind control doesn't freeze you in place. Also, you can stun lock certain creatures with certain weapons on console that you can't on PC. A simple solution might be to make AFW un-targetable while he is either bent down, or his shields are up, and/or ramping up the targeting priority of woven shadows so that you can't accidentally hit AFW if a woven is nearby. 

 

On 5/3/2024 at 4:19 AM, loonreaper said:

The other consoles just got an update an hour ago. The fact that this thread isn't a chorus of Switch players complaining about the lack of an update is amusing.

 

I mean, I'm excited for the new chests but its already been said what's wrong and its not like complaining is going to do anything. It's not really a complain worthy issue.

[grm9]

2 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I am against you responding to people on console having issues with AFW by saying LE/WP isn't even needed

you can use brightshade staff and they changed lazy explorer and weather pain through last update

[CrimsonStrider]

Again, the update isn't even out on Switch. We don't know of whatever was changed will be meaningful. 

I agree brightshade staff great for console players, provided they can get past CK which has its own console related issues. Or turn on rifts.

[Gashzer]

On 5/7/2024 at 10:14 AM, grm9 said:

you can use brightshade staff and they changed lazy explorer and weather pain through last update

I love your confidence on things in which you have no clue about.

 Its so funny 

DST on nintendo switch plays like a different game but you wouldnt know. Its ok for you to have an uneducated opinion but you are only sounding like a bit of an eejit in front of switch players.

 

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I love your confidence on things in which you have no clue about.

 Its so funny 

DST on nintendo switch plays like a different game but you wouldnt know. Its ok for you to have an uneducated opinion but you are only sounding like a bit of an eejit in front of switch players

what did i say wrong? the update having not been released yet is irrelevant, it'll sooner or later

[Gashzer]

10 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what did i say wrong? the update having not been released yet is irrelevant, it'll sooner or later

Its more what you didnt do right which is respond to Crimsonstrider.

Do your bit by bit quote breakdown thing you do and reply properly. I understand why you have ignored him because hes made points you straight up cant argue against.

On 5/7/2024 at 7:24 AM, CrimsonStrider said:

@grm9

In my defense, it wasn't entirely clear what your position was in the other topic, but after re-reading it I see that you weren't suggesting lureplants be removed or taking away the methods people use to fight AFW. And it's now clear that you're against people changing AFW to make it easier. I agree with you on both matters, with a small caveat regarding changing AFW.

I am against you responding to people on console having issues with AFW by saying LE/WP isn't even needed, and I'm going to continue arguing against for these reasons. 

The strategy of running AFW around the arena without a LE/WP and no other method of getting out of bone cage is a very advanced strategy. When someone is already struggling with an easier method, its not helpful to suggest something even harder. It's also not helpful to suggest such a strategy without explaining what needs to be done in detail.

I haven't been able to play on Switch for the last week, so I've been practicing this method on PC and I cannot get it down consistently enough to consider it a viable thing for me to try. I already practiced for almost an entire day on console a month ago or so, and I've been doing practice sessions on PC that last about an hour or so for the past 4-5 days on PC. There is always one instance of him doing bone cage early, or very late, or a woven shadow appearing at a very bad spot, that causes a chain reaction of him bending over and going back to phase 1.

Going back to a point you brushed aside, it's very easy for me to just spam c_give("whatever") to just sit in the atrium and do nothing but practice. I practice for about 5 in-game days straight, then I roll back. It's a very fast process where I can focus on practice. On console, I wouldn't be able to just spawn in a bunch of banana shakes and gear to make it easy to practice this, and as mentioned, rolling back would be a bigger hassle. Yes, you're right, they should fix performance related stuff, but that doesn't mean that these performance issues aren't a valid thing to consider. To be clear, I'm not saying make the fight easier because rolling back sucks on switch. I'm saying it acts as a major deterrent to practice this fight, because rolling back sucks on switch, so I don't expect many people to have much practice against AFW or be interested in practicing against him. As such, suggesting a very complicated way of attempting this fight is not helpful.

All I'm asking you to do, is to stop suggesting this method to struggling console players and recognize that for its own set of reasons, this fight is very hard on these platforms. It doesn't matter that some people can solo it. I can solo it. It's still a much harder thing to do on console. Sometimes, I think, when I see people complaining about something, they're not doing a very good job at explaining what's happening, and that results in people perhaps saying really wrong things about the issue, but one commonality is that very few people have good things to say about AFW on console. 

The caveat being that I can't see how you can adjust this fight for console without making the fight "easier". The only thing that makes AFW difficult is that he can heal, and thus the most difficult part is keeping him away from the woven, which proves to much harder to do on console.

Maybe they could make a console only change. There are already weird differences between console and PC. For instance, on console, mind control doesn't freeze you in place. Also, you can stun lock certain creatures with certain weapons on console that you can't on PC. A simple solution might be to make AFW un-targetable while he is either bent down, or his shields are up, and/or ramping up the targeting priority of woven shadows so that you can't accidentally hit AFW if a woven is nearby. 

[grm9]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:40 AM, Gashzer said:

I understand why you have ignored him because hes made points you straight up cant argue against

which? they asked me to not recommend minimal gear FW as an alternative for weather pains and lazy explorer and i won't since i have no reason to now, since they changed those on controllers, i don't really care about FW getting changed on consoles since according to them mind control is already broken there and you'd need to look at if you'd ruin anyone's fun there, considering that consoles generally seem to have a bigger percentage of casual players in comparison to PC