Increased Resource Requirements

[Sasuga]

I'm sure there will be a lot of pushback, but I'm a fan of more complexity in base building games. There is a limit where the complexity becomes too much, but a bit more complexity could up the challenge and increase my enjoyment.

Also, this is just a suggestion on the suggestion form. I suspect it'll fall on deaf ears, but I'm writing in hopes it won't.

I'd like there to be a bit more complexity in building items, for example:

A Comfy Bed only requiring plastic seems a bit light to me, why not plastic and some reed fiber as well for the bedding and the sheets and such?

Solar Panels should require glass and refined metals.

And barbeque not requiring Pincha Pepperplant makes it too easy to keep the dupes happy and fed.

[pnambic]

All of that sounds eminently moddable to me. So no need to raise the difficulty for everyone, or is there?

In particular, I'm pretty sure that the decision to make BBQ more accessible was based on feedback/data from the average player. Granted, peppernuts are a bit easier to handle nowadays - if you have pips and know how to use them. I'd still expect newer players to simply go vegan or pesco-vegetarian when faced with the old recipe.

Edited March 25 by pnambic

[Henlikuoth]

Those enhanced resource requirements could be made dependent on a particular difficulty setting. Maybe even a new difficulty setting only for that. Then everyone should be happy.

I suggested something like that a while ago. 

The Atmo suit, for example, could require considerably more in a high-difficulty setting. I was thinking about something like glass (for the helmet and some minor stuff), steel (for some other pieces on and inside the suit), plastic (for the hoses, canisters, etc.), and even some more plants, aside from the refined metal and reed fiber.

This principle could be applied to many other objects/buildings, like the comfy bed.

This would also lead to an increase in difficulty, because it would force a player to run around with standard gas masks much longer (which isn't necessarily bad).

The food/eating overhaul idea led to a big debate longer ago here in the forums. I belong to the people who believe that food/eating requirements or demands should be more elaborate, preferably also depending on a food difficulty setting. 

[Sasuga]

14 hours ago, pnambic said:

All of that sounds eminently moddable to me. So no need to raise the difficulty for everyone, or is there?

In particular, I'm pretty sure that the decision to make BBQ more accessible was based on feedback/data from the average player. Granted, peppernuts are a bit easier to handle nowadays - if you have pips and know how to use them. I'd still expect newer players to simply go vegan or pesco-vegetarian when faced with the old recipe.

I am not a fan of using mods for lots of reasons, but I'll only name a few: 1. If I play with mods, I feel like everything I achieved in the game doesn't count, it's "not official." I could mod the game to make it harder, I could mod the game to make it easier, and if I mod the game and talk to my friends about what I accomplished in the game (friends who also play the game, as anyone who doesn't also play won't care) they also don't care because we're not playing the same game. 2. Mods can make a game unstable, and I've had plenty of issues in various games that I have used mods where I've lost saves as a result of a mod. I've also had issues where a game will be updated and then the mod is broken, and I can't play the same without the mod, and so now I can't play the game until the mod gets updated. 3. Mods can lose support and stop being updated when a game is still being supported, and again this can result in me losing a save. 4. Because of issues 2 and 3, I often spend more time researching and repairing mods than I do playing the game, and I just don't have time for that in the limited amount of time I have to sit down and enjoy playing games.  5. If I use one mod, why not use many mods? After a while the game is not only different, but completely different, and I don't feel like I'm even playing the same game anymore. 6. I see (most) games as art, why don't we mod the Mona Lisa or The Starry Night?

I could go on, but those are some of the reasons why "not just use mods."

And, I can also counter suggest, if you don't mind using mods and the game is too hard for you, why don't you use a mod to make it easier then?

7 hours ago, Henlikuoth said:

Those enhanced resource requirements could be made dependent on a particular difficulty setting. Maybe even a new difficulty setting only for that. Then everyone should be happy.

I suggested something like that a while ago. 

The Atmo suit, for example, could require considerably more in a high-difficulty setting. I was thinking about something like glass (for the helmet and some minor stuff), steel (for some other pieces on and inside the suit), plastic (for the hoses, canisters, etc.), and even some more plants, aside from the refined metal and reed fiber.

This principle could be applied to many other objects/buildings, like the comfy bed.

This would also lead to an increase in difficulty, because it would force a player to run around with standard gas masks much longer (which isn't necessarily bad).

The food/eating overhaul idea led to a big debate longer ago here in the forums. I belong to the people who believe that food/eating requirements or demands should be more elaborate, preferably also depending on a food difficulty setting. 

Yeah, the atmo suit and jetpacks could require glass as well as the other requirements they currently have.

7 hours ago, Henlikuoth said:

Those enhanced resource requirements could be made dependent on a particular difficulty setting. Maybe even a new difficulty setting only for that. Then everyone should be happy.

I suggested something like that a while ago. 

The Atmo suit, for example, could require considerably more in a high-difficulty setting. I was thinking about something like glass (for the helmet and some minor stuff), steel (for some other pieces on and inside the suit), plastic (for the hoses, canisters, etc.), and even some more plants, aside from the refined metal and reed fiber.

This principle could be applied to many other objects/buildings, like the comfy bed.

This would also lead to an increase in difficulty, because it would force a player to run around with standard gas masks much longer (which isn't necessarily bad).

The food/eating overhaul idea led to a big debate longer ago here in the forums. I belong to the people who believe that food/eating requirements or demands should be more elaborate, preferably also depending on a food difficulty setting. 

Yeah, the atmo suit and jetpacks could require glass as well as the other requirements they currently have.

=-=-=

Maybe BBQ could be more complex again, like hamburgers and such.... But there could be a "roasted meat" or "steak" that's not as powerful as the BBQ but still a pretty decent food.

I find it strange that my dupes are running around over excited with their bonuses, while my base is still in shambles, simply because they're able to get BBQ which is super easy to make now.

[pnambic]

6 hours ago, Sasuga said:

I am not a fan of using mods for lots of reasons, but I'll only name a few: 1. If I play with mods, I feel like [... various reasons rooted in personal experience and preference ...]

That's all fine and good. You are misunderstanding the "why" of my reaction. I would have no problems with Klei making the changes you suggested, but putting them behind difficulty settings that are not enabled by default. However, your ideas as originally written boil down to:

1. "I, an experienced player, find certain aspects of the game not challenging enough."
2. "Therefore, the game needs changes to its default balance."

I disagree with point 2. I've been playing since early access. During that time, Klei made a number of rebalancing changes; most of them were geared towards making the game more accessible to beginners. I'm pretty sure they were correct in doing that, and even if I felt they weren't, they have the data on player behavior, I just have my personal impressions, which are doubtlessly skewed from accumulated experience. Your initial statement seemed to miss that distinction. That's what I was replying to.

Edited March 26 by pnambic

[Charletrom]

I strongly recommend the “customize” series of mods by Fumihiko (buildings, geysers, recipes, plants)

 

You can achieve most of what you are asking using these mods. They rarely require updates following game patches, and work remarkably well. They have totally reinvigorated my enjoyment of the game.

 

I understand the hesitation to use mods, but the ONI modding community is terrific and does a great job. We have some seriously talented folks making mods for this game.