grm9 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 5 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said: If there was some alternative to the swapping, even if it was difficult or required taking hits, that'd be less of a problem you can do the fight with only weapon, armor, sanity food, insanity food and healing by dodging bone cage, luring FW away from woven shadows and going away from FW through a way with no woven shadows nearby it so he won't reach you nor woven shadows during mind control, all problems with the fight solved i hope? a showcase of the strat, doesn't include making FW start mind control right before unseen hands cd ends to have more time to deal damage in between unseen hands summons though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRhfiZm2nYA 1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said: People hate Crab King (among other reasons) because you have to spam ice staffs, weather pains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14J6W_SWggc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelo Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I am pretty late to the party. I think AFW is a pretty okay fight. My biggest issue is the number of the little goobers that AFW eats in order to heal. Especially as a solo player there is just too many and when already juggling everything having to also keep up a Weather Pain just adds a little too much to the stress of the fight. If the number of goobers was like halved or scaled based on number of players present in the boss fight, it would be more enjoyable. At least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DegenerateFurry Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 8 hours ago, grm9 said: you can do the fight with only weapon, armor, sanity food, insanity food and healing by dodging bone cage, luring FW away from woven shadows and going away from FW through a way with no woven shadows nearby it so he won't reach you nor woven shadows during mind control, all problems with the fight solved i hope? a showcase of the strat, doesn't include making FW start mind control right before unseen hands cd ends to have more time to deal damage in between unseen hands summons though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRhfiZm2nYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14J6W_SWggc Relying on consistent frame-perfect attack cancels and not having a puffin land where you need to place a replacement boat isn't really a valid argument for why Crab King is an okay fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cropo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I'll repeat myself I think the only problem with AFW is the availability of weather pains. Volt goats are some of the worst things to farm in the game and feathers are a single-season item(although with a 100% drop rate and multiple sources of it throughout that's not as big of a problem). The introduction of scrap gives a perfect alternative recipie for a weaker version of the Weather Pain that doesn't break structures and only does 1 damage. Having to grind for volt goat horns shouldn't be a huge deciding factor in how difficult a boss fight is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grm9 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said: Relying on consistent frame-perfect attack cancels and not having a puffin land where you need to place a replacement boat isn't really a valid argument for why Crab King is an okay fight it isn't frame perfect, the window is about 2-3 frames and the biggest problem with it is that there's no indication for when you should start attacking, being unable to place boats on top of birds and items is an issue and the point was that weather pains and ice staves aren't required and you can use a few bees if you can't consistently cancel the heals with only a weapon 13 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said: you have to spam ice staffs, weather pains Edited March 26 by grm9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cropo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 25 minutes ago, grm9 said: it isn't frame perfect, the window is about 2-3 frames and the biggest problem with it is that there's no indication for when you should start attacking, being unable to place boats on top of birds and items is an issue and the point was that weather pains and ice staves aren't required and you can use a few bees if you can't consistently cancel the heals with only a weapon I aint going to lie, I've seen you play and you're really good but a lot of your advice has always seemed to boil down to just needing to be so good that what is perceived as flaws by others no longer bar them from doing what they have an issue with. Healing a problem with Fuel Weaver? Well don't change the fight, you can fight it without weather pains if you're able to systematically go around and perfect-target each one without accidentally hitting fuel weaver in the process, just do this trick where you make him bend down on accident and ninja all the weavers while he's trying to eat them! Easy right? No pressure, just make a single mistake and a significant portion of the fight gets undone. What's what? You don't need a lazy explorer, just remember his internal cooldowns and keep it in the back of your mind and outrun his prison after you've perfectly positioned him to keep him out of range, while also getting him to avoid the woven shadows! I mean, in a vacuum you're not wrong, but watching the video, I would have an easier time beating some of the toughest souls game bosses than doing something that consistently for 12 minutes straight with the knowledge that if I screw up ONCE, I am going to snowball into an escalating catastrophe and have wasted hours of grinding.(Don't try to say it's not, 120 green mushrooms, 40 blue mushrooms, 6 thulecite crowns and a club and 2 suits.) And dear god that crab king fight, holy mother of god I would not wish that on my worst enemy...that's really all I can say about that. That was some competitive fortnite level up mid-fight building I have ever seen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grm9 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 38 minutes ago, cropo said: I aint going to lie, I've seen you play and you're really good where? you do realise that these videos aren't mine, i've mostly done the theoretical stuff like documenting how FW works and helping discover the consistent heal cancel, i can do FW minimal gear except having a magi but i don't do that when playing with others 42 minutes ago, cropo said: you can fight it without weather pains if you're able to systematically go around and perfect-target each one without accidentally hitting fuel weaver in the process, just do this trick where you make him bend down on accident and ninja all the weavers while he's trying to eat them! Easy right? No pressure, just make a single mistake and a significant portion of the fight gets undone. What's what? You don't need a lazy explorer, just remember his internal cooldowns and keep it in the back of your mind and outrun his prison after you've perfectly positioned him to keep him out of range, while also getting him to avoid the woven shadows! you should ideally avoid him leaning to the ground and kill woven shadows before they come close so they later die on their own about a few seconds after you start tanking FW to sync woven shadows and unseen hands cooldowns, you don't need to know bone cage cd, you can just count 2 melee attacks after luring him from a corner to another corner and start running after the 2nd attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cropo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 1 minute ago, grm9 said: where? you do realise that these videos aren't mine, i've mostly done the theoretical stuff like documenting how FW works and helping discover the consistent heal cancel, i can do FW minimal gear except having a magi but i don't do that when playing with others Oh, I thought the CC no speed boost kill was you. Could have sworn it was you, was referring to that video more. 1 minute ago, grm9 said: you should ideally avoid him leaning to the ground and kill woven shadows before they come close so they later die on their own about a few seconds after you start tanking FW to sync woven shadows and unseen hands cooldowns, you don't need to know bone cage cd, you can just count 2 melee attacks after luring him from a corner to another corner and start running after the 2nd attack I think you're missing the point... Edited March 26 by cropo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grm9 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 2 hours ago, cropo said: Oh, I thought the CC no speed boost kill was you. Could have sworn it was you, was referring to that video more it was but i wouldn't even call that an achievement 2 hours ago, cropo said: I think you're missing the point... it's not as hard as you imagine, especially with 32% speedboost, especially if you have x2+ damage, since you can 1 cycle the fight in that case 2 hours ago, cropo said: (Don't try to say it's not, 120 green mushrooms, 40 blue mushrooms, 6 thulecite crowns and a club and 2 suits.) most of that didn't get spent, look at how much of all of those are left at the end of the video Edited March 26 by grm9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Ancient Fuelweaver is the boss with the best reward system in the game. The giant's own items are already very powerful, but beyond that, he provides a system for infinite renewal of the ruins, generating huge amounts of gems, gears, gold (which Wilson can even convert into nitre), etc. The difficulty it offers is very fair and can also be made easier with the use of gunpowder, Winona's catapult, a character with damage multiplier, Warly's recipes, etc. There are many legitimate ways to face this giant, but many players refuse to just accept the proportional price for an extremely broken loot reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cropo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 24 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said: There are many legitimate ways to face this giant, but many players refuse to just accept the proportional price for an extremely broken loot reward. Even if you were right; it wouldn't be any of your business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 7 minutes ago, cropo said: Even if you were right; it wouldn't be any of your business. Changing the boss mechanics is clearly my business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cropo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 9 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said: Changing the boss mechanics is clearly my business. Not when it's in an area that's never going to affect you or be seen by you unless you intentionally exploit it; it isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruvimaster Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, cropo said: Not when it's in an area that's never going to affect you or be seen by you unless you intentionally exploit it; it isn't. Good luck trying to convince developers with that line of argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 hours ago, Cruvimaster said: Good luck trying to convince developers with that line of argument. The devs are like... half asleep, and don't have a clue what to fix and why. We are talking about the guys who tried to remove walrus being stunlocked to nerf Wanda, but nerfed everyone else instead. Now you can't use ice staff strat, hound kill strat or just any skillful fun way, but can still shut his brain off by making him walk too far from his home. Those guys? I bet those guys don't even remember fuelweaver can be cheesed, or that toadstool exists, and simply fixed lureplant cuz someone used it on daywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Noel Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, Gi-Go said: The devs are like... half asleep, and don't have a clue what to fix and why. We are talking about the guys who tried to remove walrus being stunlocked to nerf Wanda, but nerfed everyone else instead. Now you can't use ice staff strat, hound kill strat or just any skillful fun way, but can still shut his brain off by making him walk too far from his home. Those guys? I bet those guys don't even remember fuelweaver can be cheesed, or that toadstool exists, and simply fixed lureplant cuz someone used it on daywalker. You can criticize the developers without resorting to personal jabs. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reecitz Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 9 minutes ago, Sir Noel said: You can criticize the developers without resorting to personal jabs. Yes, but do they know how to? That's the real question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gi-Go Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 minute ago, Sir Noel said: You can criticize the developers without resorting to personal jabs. Fixing cheese pisses me off, I'm slowly loosing interest in the game and despite people complaining in the past, klei keep doing it. This time, nothing was achieved since I can still use same cheese on toad and FW by simply replacing lureplant with something else. Won't tell what, someone might have trouble sleeping, knowing that dst bosses are being cheesed and will cry for a fix. But if they'll keep this up, eventually klei will get rid of some trully wonderful exploits completely killing any will I have left to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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