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Wurt needs a follower niche


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So I had initially wrote this up in response to another comment but the more I think about it I think it's worth making a post about in hopes that Klei or someone else can come up with some solution. While she comes off as quite strong she's actually quite lacking when you compare her to other follower characters who are more versatile with their followers. Basically this is to say Wurt needs some better interactions with her followers and a better payoff for all the work it takes to fully make use of them hopefully without just copying the best aspects of Maxwell and Webber if possible. I do plan to brainstorm some ideas later but I want to see where you guys stand on this topic or if you all have some ideas for improvement.

Here's what I wrote in the comment:

I'd argue the biggest weakness of Wurt as a character is most of what she offers is done better by other characters for much less effort.

Maxwell's gathering ability is superior right out of spawn and even after she fully establishes herself he's still the superior gatherer. His followers are always around and usable when he needs them and will prioritize the tasks their given while also allowing him a greater degree of control over them via emotes. He doesn't need to worry about his followers getting wiped in a fight and going to recruit them again. He doesn't have to worry about leaving followers behind when moving between shards or logging out for a moment. He doesn't have to worry about the tedium of keeping his followers fed or them running away from him while he's trying to feed them. ( PLEASE KLEI FIX THIS!!! Or at the very least increase the shared feeding range on normal merms to be the range of merm guards...) 

Then there's Webber the other primary minion character his followers can't do tasks like shadows and merms however they more than make up for it by being far more relaxed and safe in terms of minions. Unlike Maxwell or Wurt his minions lack a maintenance cost after the initial feeding so they'll guard you for as long as they live which is often nearly forever when you have nurses around as there's not a whole lot of enemies in the game who can outdamage a nurse's healing meaning of the 3 his followers are the most durable in most scenarios. Being able to pick his followers up means moving between shards is less than a issue. Expanding on being able to pick them up it also means you can make better use of hats on them like for example giving a shattered spider a miner's hat to have hands free light making use of their fast movement speed to keep up with you or a spitter's ranged attack to kill birds or aggro cowardly mobs by animation canceling a boomerang. He also has a far greater level of control and influence over spiders than either Maxwell or Wurt via his whistle which makes them prioritize his orders and his healing goop which he can use to directly heal his minions even without nurses. Also being able to pick them up means that it's not hard to move them between shards when your traveling.

Maxwell offers fast, efficient, and cheap labor with no hoops to jump through.

Webber offers a more relaxed follower experience with a much greater degree of control where the followers feel more like mini survivors rather than mindless minions

Wurt on the other hand asks a lot of you the player to use her followers effectively while giving you a strong sense of helplessness while using them sometimes. They can chop and mine resources but there's no stopping them unless you move too far from them which also means you need to babysit them while they work to an extent and they won't work unless you have the specific tool and show them what you want done. Another problem is that once they start fighting you can't stop them unless you run far enough that they get teleported away from what they were fighting. As already mentioned making use of the shared feeding ability of merms on normal merms is very hard since they run away from you while trying to feed them and this can lead them spreading out to far to benefit however this can be somewhat fixed when you get guards as their recruitment range is far bigger.

That's not to say merms don't come with a few unique advantages however like having passive hp regen, merms being naturally protective of Wurt, or their upgraded variants being immune to panic but more often than not if your looking for a follower character the work you need to put into Wurt just doesn't pay off when looked at side by side with Maxwell or Webber which is the main reason those two tend to be far more popular.

Thematically Wurt is really fun but the end result on her doesn't really respect the time you invest into her.

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I second this. 

 

I made a post about this before, but I do believe that she should be able to let her Merms automate everything in the late game (they'll gather twigs, grass, wood, food, fish etc) all while unloaded. I do feel that her niche should be "strongest late-game character" 

 

As in, she starts off as a vegan Wilson, but after a few seasons, she becomes unstoppable. This, I feel atleast makes up for the huge amount of time and effort you need to sink into her

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Webber having "a more relaxed follower experience" is an absolute joke to me. The chaotic screaming every five seconds, the immediate aggro when a Webber leaves the server, and not to mention them devouring the loot from anything they help kill. Super not worth it imo.

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7 minutes ago, dzzydzzy said:

Webber having "a more relaxed follower experience" is an absolute joke to me. The chaotic screaming every five seconds, the immediate aggro when a Webber leaves the server, and not to mention them devouring the loot from anything they help kill. Super not worth it imo.

Yeah, but what they meant, is that the followers require less keeping up with than Wurt 

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I hope Wurt's skill tree expands on her role as a "kingdom builder".

Having more merm types aimed at utility would be especially great(I really hope Klei doesn't just focus on fighting perks for characters like Wurt and Winona, it makes sense for Wigfrid and Willow, but Wurt and Winona seem like they could really benefit from having more utility in their kit, such as automating/speeding up certain tedious tasks etc). 

Ideas of what those utility focused merms could do were already brought up on these forums, for example, Gardener merms could fit pretty well, also the return(and a little rework) of fisher merms would be great. 

Cmon, what good is a kingdom that has nothing but guards? 

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21 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So I had initially wrote this up in response to another comment but the more I think about it I think it's worth making a post about in hopes that Klei or someone else can come up with some solution. While she comes off as quite strong she's actually quite lacking when you compare her to other follower characters who are more versatile with their followers. Basically this is to say Wurt needs some better interactions with her followers and a better payoff for all the work it takes to fully make use of them hopefully without just copying the best aspects of Maxwell and Webber if possible. I do plan to brainstorm some ideas later but I want to see where you guys stand on this topic or if you all have some ideas for improvement.

Here's what I wrote in the comment:

I'd argue the biggest weakness of Wurt as a character is most of what she offers is done better by other characters for much less effort.

Maxwell's gathering ability is superior right out of spawn and even after she fully establishes herself he's still the superior gatherer. His followers are always around and usable when he needs them and will prioritize the tasks their given while also allowing him a greater degree of control over them via emotes. He doesn't need to worry about his followers getting wiped in a fight and going to recruit them again. He doesn't have to worry about leaving followers behind when moving between shards or logging out for a moment. He doesn't have to worry about the tedium of keeping his followers fed or them running away from him while he's trying to feed them. ( PLEASE KLEI FIX THIS!!! Or at the very least increase the shared feeding range on normal merms to be the range of merm guards...) 

Then there's Webber the other primary minion character his followers can't do tasks like shadows and merms however they more than make up for it by being far more relaxed and safe in terms of minions. Unlike Maxwell or Wurt his minions lack a maintenance cost after the initial feeding so they'll guard you for as long as they live which is often nearly forever when you have nurses around as there's not a whole lot of enemies in the game who can outdamage a nurse's healing meaning of the 3 his followers are the most durable in most scenarios. Being able to pick his followers up means moving between shards is less than a issue. Expanding on being able to pick them up it also means you can make better use of hats on them like for example giving a shattered spider a miner's hat to have hands free light making use of their fast movement speed to keep up with you or a spitter's ranged attack to kill birds or aggro cowardly mobs by animation canceling a boomerang. He also has a far greater level of control and influence over spiders than either Maxwell or Wurt via his whistle which makes them prioritize his orders and his healing goop which he can use to directly heal his minions even without nurses. Also being able to pick them up means that it's not hard to move them between shards when your traveling.

Maxwell offers fast, efficient, and cheap labor with no hoops to jump through.

Webber offers a more relaxed follower experience with a much greater degree of control where the followers feel more like mini survivors rather than mindless minions

Wurt on the other hand asks a lot of you the player to use her followers effectively while giving you a strong sense of helplessness while using them sometimes. They can chop and mine resources but there's no stopping them unless you move too far from them which also means you need to babysit them while they work to an extent and they won't work unless you have the specific tool and show them what you want done. Another problem is that once they start fighting you can't stop them unless you run far enough that they get teleported away from what they were fighting. As already mentioned making use of the shared feeding ability of merms on normal merms is very hard since they run away from you while trying to feed them and this can lead them spreading out to far to benefit however this can be somewhat fixed when you get guards as their recruitment range is far bigger.

That's not to say merms don't come with a few unique advantages however like having passive hp regen, merms being naturally protective of Wurt, or their upgraded variants being immune to panic but more often than not if your looking for a follower character the work you need to put into Wurt just doesn't pay off when looked at side by side with Maxwell or Webber which is the main reason those two tend to be far more popular.

Thematically Wurt is really fun but the end result on her doesn't really respect the time you invest into her.

In my very specific opinion, merms should be able to auto gather resources. Semi-automation. That is a niche that crosses with nobody.

1 hour ago, skile said:

I hope Wurt's skill tree expands on her role as a "kingdom builder".

Having more merm types aimed at utility would be especially great(I really hope Klei doesn't just focus on fighting perks for characters like Wurt and Winona, it makes sense for Wigfrid and Willow, but Wurt and Winona seem like they could really benefit from having more utility in their kit, such as automating/speeding up certain tedious tasks etc). 

Ideas of what those utility focused merms could do were already brought up on these forums, for example, Gardener merms could fit pretty well, also the return(and a little rework) of fisher merms would be great. 

Cmon, what good is a kingdom that has nothing but guards? 

Willow's skill tree was essentially a rework in terms of features, so it is a thing that can happen.

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I think this goes more for Webber that Wurt. Wurt feels like a much better minion character than Webber. 

I don't appose more utility like fishing in ponds or harvesting/tilling for Merms but imo Webber feels a lot weaker. 

Idk how Webber is relaxing when the spiders are constantly eating the loot. That alone is a deal breaker imo. 

And wurt as a couple inches like weather fish and higher food gain once you're established.

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1 hour ago, HowlVoid said:

I think this goes more for Webber that Wurt. Wurt feels like a much better minion character than Webber. 

I don't appose more utility like fishing in ponds or harvesting/tilling for Merms but imo Webber feels a lot weaker. 

Idk how Webber is relaxing when the spiders are constantly eating the loot. That alone is a deal breaker imo. 

And wurt as a couple inches like weather fish and higher food gain once you're established.

I'm not trying to be rude when I ask this but have you played Webber long term? While it's true his followers can eat meat a more experienced player either grab the loot before they eat it or time their whistle to make sure they don't eat the loot sure in larger scale battles there's a higher chance of loot being eaten but it's not like Webber has a issue getting access to food, healing, or sanity anyway.

When you say Wurt is in a superior position to Webber could you explain how? 

 

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