I've been seeing a good share of players simply electing not to commit to either shadow or lunar side. My suggestion

[chirsg]

Ok. so the 5% increase and decrease to damage or whatever it is remains to be so insignificant, it's effectively for many, a waste of a slot.

I don't think there should be a pure stat increase. 

I can only speak for the shadow side, but the shadow song should act like Woodie's shadow perk, but for the team under the influence of her song. She and everyone in her buff radius should be left alone by shadow creatures. I don't believe it's particularly game breaking and personally, I'd probably take other songs in lieu of it, however, it's an option one can exercise for synergies sake. 

As for the lunar side song, it's a bit difficult to implement, but this is a bit of a spaghetti on the wall scenario. I had thought out the shadow side, but this suggestion is something I made out of thin air; The lunar side should passively raise inspiration when enlightened and the song itself should make everyone in the radius immune to gestalts.

 

Stating this, I believe that the shadow side would be the superior side, but having a straight stat increase is a little less interesting.

If you have alternative suggestions for either path, please speak your piece. It's a little sad that the reward for slaying the respective final bosses is something so  underwhelming, one would chose not to commit to either. 

[Swiyss]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Ok. so the 5% increase and decrease to damage or whatever it is remains to be so insignificant, it's effectively for many, a waste of a slot.

I don't think there should be a pure stat increase. 

I can only speak for the shadow side, but the shadow song should act like Woodie's shadow perk, but for the team under the influence of her song. She and everyone in her buff radius should be left alone by shadow creatures. I don't believe it's particularly game breaking and personally, I'd probably take other songs in lieu of it, however, it's an option one can exercise for synergies sake. 

As for the lunar side song, it's a bit difficult to implement, but this is a bit of a spaghetti on the wall scenario. I had thought out the shadow side, but this suggestion is something I made out of thin air; The lunar side should passively raise inspiration when enlightened and the song itself should make everyone in the radius immune to gestalts.

 

Stating this, I believe that the shadow side would be the superior side, but having a straight stat increase is a little less interesting.

I like your shadow perk idea, however that would make woodie useless no? you would kill his uniqueness.

the lunar one doesn't make sense to me. I rather have the crown costing no sanity then this.

as for the shadow, we could get shadow tentacles when attacking with the reaper or something like this since she's a fighter. or maybe attacks against lunar creatures slow them using shadow gear.

both would be good late game, spear and helm early, and commander and thor spear mid-game. it's perfect.

I still would like something better for the lunar side though, any other suggestions?

[grm9]

Just now, chirsg said:

I can only speak for the shadow side, but the shadow song should act like Woodie's shadow perk, but for the team under the influence of her song. She and everyone in her buff radius should be left alone by shadow creatures

that'd make both sanity songs useless for everything except FW until the entire team gets celestial crowns which probably isn't that bad but idk, it'll just be that before CC and sanity on hit after CC

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

As for the lunar side song, it's a bit difficult to implement, but this is a bit of a spaghetti on the wall scenario. I had thought out the shadow side, but this suggestion is something I made out of thin air; The lunar side should passively raise inspiration when enlightened and the song itself should make everyone in the radius immune to gestalts.

and that'll only be useful for the first few CC fights before the entire team gets celestial crowns 

one of those should be useful after CC

[Trips]

Wigfrid's affinity perks seem too conservatively balanced. I guess they're scared of people abusing multiple Wigfrids? 

Granted how characters like Warly already boost the power of a team through the roof with his Volt Goat Jelly, I don't think adding a more significant boost to damage from Wigfrid would really break anything.. that and maybe give players that want to buff their team more choices than going the team's base chef.

[chirsg]

2 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

I like your shadow perk idea, however that would make woodie useless no? you would kill his uniqueness.

 

Absolutely it would not make Woodie useless. Woodie's weremoose can solo select bosses and he has an obligate sanity penalty at all times, whereas Wigfrid generally inherently wants to stay at maximum sanity mid combat. 

Having the shadow song for everyone won't step on Woodie's toes whatsoever. 

[Swiyss]

2 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Absolutely it would not make Woodie useless. Woodie's weremoose can solo select bosses and he has an obligate sanity penalty at all times, whereas Wigfrid generally inherently wants to stay at maximum sanity mid combat. 

Having the shadow song for everyone won't step on Woodie's toes whatsoever. 

I think it will still.

he has something. now everyone has it too. what is the reason he has it then?

[chirsg]

Just now, Swiyss said:

I think it will still.

he has something. now everyone has it too. what is the reason he has it then?

Woodie functions independently from Wigfrid. His shadow skill is active for utility, not only combat. He's uninterruptable during beaver chopping and goose running, whereas Wigfrid's perk would ONLY be for combat and would cost an entire song. And I don't even think you'll want the song for every situation. For example, if everyone has a crown, you would rather have both sanity songs, but say if there were a joint ruins rush, not being affected by nightmare beaks when slaying clockworks would be pretty comfy. But again, late late late game. 

 

 

[Mysterious box]

18 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Ok. so the 5% increase and decrease to damage or whatever it is remains to be so insignificant, it's effectively for many, a waste of a slot.

I don't think there should be a pure stat increase. 

I can only speak for the shadow side, but the shadow song should act like Woodie's shadow perk, but for the team under the influence of her song. She and everyone in her buff radius should be left alone by shadow creatures. I don't believe it's particularly game breaking and personally, I'd probably take other songs in lieu of it, however, it's an option one can exercise for synergies sake. 

As for the lunar side song, it's a bit difficult to implement, but this is a bit of a spaghetti on the wall scenario. I had thought out the shadow side, but this suggestion is something I made out of thin air; The lunar side should passively raise inspiration when enlightened and the song itself should make everyone in the radius immune to gestalts.

 

Stating this, I believe that the shadow side would be the superior side, but having a straight stat increase is a little less interesting.

If you have alternative suggestions for either path, please speak your piece. It's a little sad that the reward for slaying the respective final bosses is something so  underwhelming, one would chose not to commit to either. 

My only issue with the shadow one is perk overlap is going crazy these days and I don't think we need more of it.

[Trips]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

My only issue with the shadow one is perk overlap is going crazy these days and I don't think we need more of it.

perk overlap?

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Trips said:

perk overlap?

Characters getting the same perks

[Swiyss]

4 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Woodie functions independently from Wigfrid. His shadow skill is active for utility, not only combat. He's uninterruptable during beaver chopping and goose running, whereas Wigfrid's perk would ONLY be for combat and would cost an entire song. And I don't even think you'll want the song for every situation. For example, if everyone has a crown, you would rather have both sanity songs, but say if there were a joint ruins rush, not being affected by nightmare beaks when slaying clockworks would be pretty comfy. But again, late late late game. 

 

 

like, she already only have 3 songs she can choose at max. 2 wigfrids makes 6, and yet there is still too many songs. I think the 2 current allign side songs should be removed or changed to be situational. if multiplayer combat is her strong side, then why negating shadow creatures make sense?

I think that a song that makes everyone deal 5% more damage (or 10%) is waaaay better than what you proposed

and is still not that great even

[Jakepeng99]

8 hours ago, chirsg said:

She and everyone in her buff radius should be left alone by shadow creatures. I don't believe it's particularly game breaking and personally,

It is, it invalidates two of her songs completly and turns them into one song. 

[chirsg]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It is, it invalidates two of her songs completly and turns them into one song. 

I disagree. Fuel weaver can still mind control you at 0% sanity, yellow song is effective against celestial champion I believe, and after you unlock the enlightened crown, you will REALLY want the pink sanity song. 

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, chirsg said:

I disagree. Fuel weaver can still mind control you at 0% sanity, yellow song is effective against celestial champion I believe, and after you unlock the enlightened crown, you will REALLY want the pink sanity song. 

It makes it only useful in two scenarios. For one boss, and with one end game hard to obtain item made harder in multiplayer.

[chirsg]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It makes it only useful in two scenarios. For one boss, and with one end game hard to obtain item made harder in multiplayer.

Insanity is bad. Generally you would rather be non insane for day to day. Having the hypothetical insanity song would be a team song more than anything for the sake of improvisation.  

Remember, insanity outside of combat is also not ideal. You don't do chores as efficiently, you're at risk of death or breaking equipment, and visibility is shot to death too. 

 

I really don't think that it's superior than either sanity songs. It just provides an alternative for when people are insane mid combat. 

[Jakepeng99]

5 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Insanity is bad. Generally you would rather be non insane for day to day. Having the hypothetical insanity song would be a team song more than anything for the sake of improvisation.  

Remember, insanity outside of combat is also not ideal. You don't do chores as efficiently, you're at risk of death or breaking equipment, and visibility is shot to death too. 

 

I really don't think that it's superior than either sanity songs. It just provides an alternative for when people are insane mid combat. 

You never use the songs outside of combat.

[chirsg]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You never use the songs outside of combat.

That's the point. Combat has to end. When using the sanity songs, it's likely you've leave the skirmish with full sanity. If you use the hypothetical insanity insurance song, you've only placed a bandaid on the insanity dilemma and you must deal with the nightmares once the song has expired.