Ruins: redesign conception of the decaying ancient civilization(Part 1)

[Mr.Oshiro]

Hello everyone! Recently l have released two very detailed threads pointing out the problems that have existed in DST Ruins for many years, and l hope they can be fixed, so that the ruins can truly show people their appearance.

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However so far, Klei has not given us any response.l don't know if they will eventually fix the ruins. lf they really have this plan, l think the ruins will be redesigned to better adapt to the current game and lay the foundation for future Shadow Rift content.

Therefore, I will provide design intent to Klei here, hoping that the ruins can truly become a place where danger and rewards coexist and is full of storytelling.

Okay, let's officially get to the topic.

Overall design objective

The new design aims to better showcase the ancient civilization ruins located deep underground. Players can explore and touch some historical fragments to gain a deeper understanding of the game's plot.

The ruins are filled with danger, but there are also generous rewards. Each biome has its own distinct characteristics, and they are interrelated with each other. According to the order of exploration, the difficulty and rewards will gradually increase. Players need to flexibly use the items obtained from previous adventures and explore according to the rules of the ruins, ultimately conquering this place.

Main mechanism adjustmen

1. The temperature in the ruins will remain stable, and there will be no leakage of rain here.When players reach the ruins deep in the cave, the surface world is located at a distant upper level, so the changes brought by the season are difficult to reach here.The changes in seasons should be more reflected in the surface world, allowing players to face and challenge nature.Perhaps Klei can add more seasonal challenges to the surface in the future, but this should not be the challenge target of the ruins. The difficulties brought to players by this ancient area themselves should be highlighted.
2. Earthquakes will have a small probability of bringing thulecite fragments                and orange/green/yellow gems,with rabbits and moles no longer appearing and replaced by dangling depth dweller. l hope earthquakes have their own special items in different regions. For example, lunar grotto——currently the only place with special earthquake dropped objects,some items from lunar islands will come here with the earthquake, as well as moles living above biome. So similarly, based on the location of the ruins,earthquakes should bring morethings that conform to the characteristics of the biome, increasing the sense of immersion.
3. Reduce the duration of the dawn phase of the nightmare cycle. When you check the Thulecite Medallion, the character will tell you that the nightmare is about to end! ln DS, it is true that the arrival of the dawn phase means that the battle against a large group of shadow creatures is about to end, and you can finally breathe a sigh of relief. But the duration of the DST dawn phase is long, even comparable to the wild phase, making it difficult for people to feel like dawn is coming. Almost only the filter becomes different, and it loses the meaning that this name should have.

Redesign of biomes

Arrange in order of exploration:Mud World——Ruins Wilds——Residential——Military——Labyrith——Sacred

Additional: Atrium

 

0.Mud World

Explanation:The entrance to the Ruins in DS is located in a biome filled with spiders and bats, serving as a
transitional area between the first and second underground levels. This requires players to have the ability to pass these challenges in order to explore treasures deeper.DST merged caves and ruins due to server issues, and the mud biomes is the center of the entire cave, directly connected to the ruins without any transition. This means that players will directly enter the dangerous LichenLand from the safe Lightflower land, which looks very abrupt.

Adjustment:Firstly, the mud biomes connected to the ruins should play a transitional role. Although the ruins and caves now have to be on the same level, we can make players feel like they are entering deeper and deeper places by changing the content of biomes.
Here are some modifications l made to the mud biomes.I divide them into four layers, and the content of each layer is gradually changing.

• First layer: After exiting the mushroom forest, you will enter here.There are a large number of
  Llight flowers and ferns, which are enough to illuminate the entire area. The number of stalagmites and Glow Berries is very small.
• Second layer: The number of light flowers and ferns begins to decrease, but they can still illuminate most areas. On the contrary, there have been more stalagmites and Glow Berries, with occasional stalagmite pillars being generated.
• Third layer: The number of Glow Berries has significantly increased, with occasional worms mixing with them, while light flowers and ferns have become rare, making it difficult to see the chain reaction of light again. The number of stalagmite pillars has increased, and you may need to take a detour.
• Fourth layer: The light flowers and ferns have completely disappeared, and only mysterious plants grow here. The stalagmites and pillars became very dense. A small number of Nightmare Fissures begin toappear symbolically, and there will be scattered thulecite fragments on the ground.This biomes will be connected to the ruins.
• The entrance to the ruins is blocked by a large piece of thulecite, and characters can inspect it. Behind it is connected to an ancient path, through which they can truly enter the ruins.

 

Spoiler

Design reasons: Light flowers and ferns can be said to be representative plants of caves, with their presence in almost every biome, and their gradual disappearance can indicate that you are heading towards a different area (where unique new plants will replace them).In the pitch black cave,light is not as visible as on the
surface, and the light flower is like a lighthouse ,illuminating the player's path forward. Whenever l see a series of light flowers activated,l always feel comforted, I don't know if you have the same feeling.As players delve deeper into the cave, the light gradually disappears, and the overall atmosphere becomes increasingly eerie. Moreover, some peculiar materials begin to appear, indicating that the ruins are getting closer.

atmosphere of the fourth layer

Regarding Nightmare Fissures:l want them not to open together.After all, this is not ruins, and the shadow energy is not as strong yet. In DS, this is the case, but DST places cave fissures and ruins fissures together, both of which comply with the nightmare cycle rules. l don't know if this is a bug, I have provided feedback before but haven't received a response.

剧情透露

Regarding the Ruin Entrance: Although DST does not use the Ruin Entrance, if you create one using the
console and inspect it, you will find that it is different from the inspection line of the cave entrance, and even DST unique characters have special inspection lines, which represent different characters attitudes towards the ruins. lt's a pity that it hasn't been used. Since 'vertical' cannot be displayed, I think using 'horizontal' instead is a good choice. When players are on the ancient path, their perspective can be changed to indicate that they are moving downwards.

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1.Ruins Wilds

Explanation:This area is a wilderness of ancient civilization, and players first come here after entering the Ruins. Compared to the DS, the blue mushrooms have been removed, but the number of cave lichens has greatly increased, and the muddy pillars have become very dense, which hinders the player's line of sight and makes it more difficult to avoid Slurpers. However, a large amount of lichen as food is not very useful. In addition to the ordinary wilderness biome, Klei has also added a cave jungle biome with many banana trees, monkeys, and cave ponds, giving a feeling of SW jungle atmosphere. However, this biome does not have a dedicated filling area, and Klei only added banana trees and monkey barrels to the foundation, causing these two things to appear disharmonious in ordinary wilderness biome.

 

Lichenland and Cavejungle

Adjustment(Lichenland):

1. Add some wild small plants like Hamlet's aloe vera or asparagus, whose appearance matches the overall atmosphere of the Ruins. Compared to ordinary food, they have precious medicinal properties and are not in large quantities. After eating it, players can receive special effects, such as gaining a slight increase in speed, increasing damage or defense, and continuously restoring health (a small amount), all of which last for about 15 seconds.（Unused plants）
2. Increasing the challenge of important areas in the biome. In dense cave lichens, there are some special lichens that can entangle players, causing them to be imprisoned. Similar to Spiny Bindweed, you have to break free from the constraints by attacking. Slurpers no longer pauses before launching an attack, but pounces directly at the player. If hit by him, the player's screen will become pitch black and they need to quickly click on the head gear bar to put down the slurper. At the same time, other players or friendly creatures can also help the player get out of trouble.During the nightmare phase, the special lichen will turn into a shadow with a larger detection radius. If entangled by the lichen at this time, it will cause a rapid decrease in sanity.
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3. Increase the use of lichens and Belt of Hunger. Lichens can be made into coatings and used on clothing or armor to reduce the detection radius of hostile creatures. In addition to its original function, Belt of Hunger can also break through the upper limit of the hunger amounts. After reaching the maximum hunger amounts, the player continues to eat food, increasing hunger by half of the food, and can reach up to three times the hunger amounts of this character. However, the durability of the belt will be quickly depleted.
4. Change the appearance of the muddy pillar to better integrate into the overall environment. The pillars and stalagmites of other cave biomes have the same color and look quite harmonious. At present, there are some differences in color between the muddy pillars and the mud turfs. It would be better if they were changed to the same color, and the lichen on the pillars could be changed to blue to make them more prominent.
5. Change Lesser Glow Berries to permanent moisture like worms, which will choose to camouflage slightly away from the plants and no longer attack Slurpers.Less glowing berries should be a weakened version of worms, and I think they may have grown from the body of a dead worm. At present, worms choose to disguise themselves very close to plants, which looks very strange and you can almost detect it at a glance, because normally generated plants are not so close.Unlike bunnies and spiders, Slurpers pose almost no threat to worms. Their attacks are entirely aimed at dealing with players, and worms quickly eliminate them, lacking in drama.

Spoiler

Design reasons:This biome (including the cave jungle that follows) is one of the few places with significant differences from other biome in the ruins. It is basically completely "natural" and not so "artificial". I think this can become a botanical garden of ruins, where players can not only feel the uniqueness of the ruins, but also prepare for exploring deeper areas. Although dense muddy pillars can bring players a certain level of challenge, it is not enough without other combinations. By changing  lichens and slupers, the challenge can be more complete, and the loot obtained can also be useful.Improving the predicament of only serving as an intermediate station leading to the statue area.

Adjustment(Cavejungle):

Increase the density of banana trees throughout the entire biome. At present, only a small area of the cave jungle is densely populated with banana trees, which is not very different from the ordinary wilderness biome. Sometimes you may not be able to distinguish their differences. Since we want to use the jungle as the theme of the biome, I think amplifying the characteristics is the best. Of course, we also need the special small plants I mentioned earlier, because cave jungle are still wilderness areas of Ruins.

 

Add some giant splumonkeys in the jungle, who usually disguise themselves as banana trees. I think the monkey barrel looks like a monkey's head and is alive, which reminds me a bit of Moai. When you light the monkey barrel, even if there is no monkey inside, it will jump wildly! The banana tree is like a monkey's tail, I think it may be a monkey hidden underground.They hide in the same way as an ordinary banana tree, but they shake from time to time, and the monkeys will pick its fruit. If the player destroys it (chops down or ignites it), it will come out to attack the player and quickly escape and disguise again, while also causing hatred from all the monkeys around it. If the player can successfully kill it, they can obtain wooden monkey skins.Like other splumonkeys, during the nightmare phase, the giant splumonkey no longer runs away, but becomes extremely aggressive, making it difficult for players to escape. If the player can successfully kill it, they can obtain wooden monkey skin and blueprints, which can be used to make clothes to disguise splumonkeys. After wearing it, splusmonkeys will become friendly, no longer snatching items from nearby players, and can be bribed.

Spoiler

 

Moai and Jumping Monkey Barrel

 

Design reasons:At present, even if you defeat the Ancient Fuelweaver, you will not be able to deal with these monkeys. Bone helmets can defend against shadow creatures but are ineffective against shadow monkeys, indicating that their "nature" surpasses that of "shadow". I think after conquering ruins, we also need something to control monkeys, and a creature like a monkey leader is a good choice. At the same time, this also adds new gameplay to the player's entire relic exploration process, constantly chasing creatures in the dangerous monkey jungle, although not necessary, can make the challenge more interesting.

 

2.Residential

Explanation:There are many Thulcite Walls and relics here, which seem to be the homes of ancient people. Many places have left traces of their lives, but this is a long time ago. Now, most of the area here has been destroyed and occupied by various monsters.

This type of biomes is a biome with almost no changes to its content. The entire ruins area only has a little blue mushroom at the entrance of this biome, in order to transition to the wilderness biome. However, there are no more blue mushrooms there now, and the entrance to the residential area has not changed, becoming an outdated design."Ruined City" is another name for it, because it used to be like a Military and Atrium, composed of many set pieces, forming a beautiful monkey village. Unfortunately, due to code issues, they are difficult to generate in DST, replaced by many disorganized areas. In the nightmare stage, a large number of shadow monkeys left a deep impression on many players, perhaps this is the only change.

  

DST residential,Monkeys are very dense

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DS residential,debris ruins turfs areas are of the original density

There are three residential biomes in total, but the differences between them are very small and can be basically ignored. In DS, there is no connection to any place behind the residential, so the biome can be freely generated. But in DST, only residential1 biome can be connected and is bound to be generated, resulting in severe compression of its generation space, making it even more difficult for the monkey village set pieces to appear.

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These are all the monkey village set pieces, divided into two categories: one is relatively regular, and the other is incomplete. But their common problem is that most places lack content, almost empty, and even if there are things, they are randomly placed, failing to showcase the life of the ancients well.

Adjustment:

• Increase the probability of destroying relics dropping various rare items, especially vases. I don't know if everyone has noticed in the game that destroying relics may lead to treasures such as gems, thulcites, and gears. Moreover, the items dropped from the vase are more abundant, and there may even be toys, which reveal a little bit of the ancient way of life to players. Unfortunately, the probability of those treasures falling is too low to be easily noticed. Increase the probability to make players more interested in searching for relics and find annoying monkeys around them. I think this is a very interesting gameplay!
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• At present, all relics have health, and I think they should be converted into regular buildings, destroyed with hammers, and kept consistent with their replicas. Except for the vase, other relics that are in a damaged state can still be repaired and given sanity reward, but if struck again, they will be directly destroyed. Smashing a vase will bring players a sense of pleasure because you will always be looking forward to the appearance of good things.
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• In addition to the original items, the vase may also drop livinglog and ancient seeds (with a very low probability). A vase should have been a container for ancient people to store various magical materials, so livinglog is no exception. And ancient seeds were carefully cultivated by ancient people and could be planted in farmland. These plants grew slowly, consumed a lot of nutrients, and had very strict requirements for their growth environment. But if players can successfully plant and harvest, the benefits are enormous. After consuming its fruit, it can immediately restore full health and gain 15 seconds of invincibility.Additionally, as this plant comes from Ruins, it can prevent Brightshade Gestalts from parasitizing surrounding plants when growing in farmland.
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• Improve the content of the monkey village set pieces to make them more distinguishable and have different functions. Based on the change in the probability of relics falling, places such as storage rooms can be set up, with many vases but also many interfering creatures around. The rest of the space showcases the different functions of ancient rooms, and the placement of some furniture should have a feeling of being used by ancient people. Here are some examples I have done:

• Reduce the size of plates, dishes, and bowls, they should be placed on the table. These small relics already existed in DS, but were not used until DST set them up at the entrance of Sacred, and only here. I think the position that truly suits them is on the table. It will appear on some naturally generated tables, and their replicas can also be placed on the table, like wooden bottles.
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• Increase the opportunity for the appearance of the Monkey Village set pieces and remove wilderness biomes section within it. Observing the three residential biomes, they all have a significant proportion of wilderness areas, which fails to reflect the characteristics of such biome. My idea is to use the originally chaotic monkey area as the edge of the biome, with set piece in the middle, to create a sense of "Ruined City" atmosphere throughout the entire biome.There should be differences between different Residential, some are well preserved, while others are dilapidated, corresponding to the original design concept of set pieces.Here are my modifications:

• Add more shadow residents, similar to Resting Horror. Recently, Clay added a new ruin creature and had some interaction with the relics. I think we can add more in residential areas to show their reluctance towards this place. These shadow creatures can have different appearances and behaviors, but they do not pose too much danger to players unless they actively provoke them. They will pass through the player's body and disappear. A player's item will drop and have negative effects such as blurred vision, slowing down, and reduced damage, but it will not directly affect health.During the nightmare phase, residents will become irritable and actively attack players. These shadow residents make residential areas more lively, but they should not make them more dangerous.
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Design reasons:At present, the residential biome in the game is dull and boring, and its only function seems to be as an obstacle for players to access the ancient altar, without its own exploration value. Although the functions of relics have been designed (even vases and many special items), they have not been well utilized and should be taken seriously. At the same time, redesigning the set ball can also leave a deep impression on players. Some rooms have furniture arranged much like modern rooms with certain functions, making the traces of ancient life more abundant and also adding to the overall experience.

Alright, that's all for the first half of the content. I will present the remaining four biome designs and other Ruins problems in the second half of the article. The length of the second article is similar to this one, and I need more time to organize them.Thank you for reading!

[Hungry French]

45 minutes ago, Mr.Oshiro said:

However so far, Klei has not given us any response.l don't know if they will eventually fix the ruins. lf they really have this plan, l think the ruins will be redesigned to better adapt to the current game and lay the foundation for future Shadow Rift content.

Klei most likely will not bother with this just like that. 
If they fix it, then in the next game.

[_zwb]

I wonder how long it will take to mod this

[Hungry French]

2 minutes ago, _zwb said:

I wonder how long it will take to mod this

Check out the DS-like Ruins mod

[Frosty_Mentos]

I feel like ruins were mostly shafted due to the lack of space in the caves and there being a want to perhaps save some of it like for structures like atrium and archives if those were planned in their office. Hard to tell what they were thinking at the time but releasing caves and everything with them before and during a new reign was the technical side of things that they were really trying to figure out is what I assume. And we got smaller updates crunched in before the Heart of the Ruins update came up and added the largest mechanics like resetting them. I'm not a Klei dev and they seem busy with juggling a lot of things right now and I'd love to see some caves redesign cause I see no point in coming down there much but for few things like bosses, ruins and fossils (And fossils being the rarest non renewable resource now in the game). I don't think we need this many large areas in the caves besides just to make long enough paths to ruins to give some time to journey there, but also maybe reducing the amount of entrances would also create a whole lot more space to work around down there? I dunno.

For ruins raiding experience I can only complain about the nonsensical bridges and an area looking like it barely generated sometimes and gave me nothing loot wise practically, buy I'm usually fine. Big statue areas feel like a supplementary material for the ones that lack the most in danger and relevance. Or perhaps that's the point if you don't wanna waste time and just get the thule, gems and get out?

Maybe the rift content will introduce to new ruin challenges? Who knows.

[Mr.Oshiro]

2 hours ago, _zwb said:

I wonder how long it will take to mod this

Excluding the time spent collecting ideas, it took more than ten hours to make changes to these maps... I originally planned to put all the content in one thread, but it was just too exhausting. I fell asleep right after posting at 3am.

[Mr.Oshiro]

3 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I feel like ruins were mostly shafted due to the lack of space in the caves and there being a want to perhaps save some of it like for structures like atrium and archives if those were planned in their office. Hard to tell what they were thinking at the time but releasing caves and everything with them before and during a new reign was the technical side of things that they were really trying to figure out is what I assume. And we got smaller updates crunched in before the Heart of the Ruins update came up and added the largest mechanics like resetting them. I'm not a Klei dev and they seem busy with juggling a lot of things right now and I'd love to see some caves redesign cause I see no point in coming down there much but for few things like bosses, ruins and fossils (And fossils being the rarest non renewable resource now in the game). I don't think we need this many large areas in the caves besides just to make long enough paths to ruins to give some time to journey there, but also maybe reducing the amount of entrances would also create a whole lot more space to work around down there? I dunno.

For ruins raiding experience I can only complain about the nonsensical bridges and an area looking like it barely generated sometimes and gave me nothing loot wise practically, buy I'm usually fine. Big statue areas feel like a supplementary material for the ones that lack the most in danger and relevance. Or perhaps that's the point if you don't wanna waste time and just get the thule, gems and get out?

Maybe the rift content will introduce to new ruin challenges? Who knows.

Yeah, the problem of insufficient cave space really has a significant impact on the ruins. Other cave biomes, such as mushroom forests, have dispersed generated content, and even if space is squeezed, the vast majority of the content will not be lacking. But the ruins are different. Most biomes are set pieces, and once the space for generation is insufficient, a large amount of content contained in locators is lost. Sometimes the Atrium or Archives are squeezed to the point where only a few rooms remain.

 

I used to wonder why the proportion of sinkhole biomes was so large, with as many as ten variants, before ANR's cave reset, while the actual cave biomes (mushroom forest and stalagmite cave) was monotonous. Later, I conducted some investigations and found that resetting the cave did indeed have a significant problem.

 

[Mr.Oshiro]

Strangely, you can see the author's reply outside, but when you enter the post, you cannot find it.

[arubaro]

19 hours ago, Mr.Oshiro said:

The temperature in the ruins will remain stable, and there will be no leakage of rain here

im really against this suggestion

rain opens strategies. As wurt and warly i love to go to clean the ruins in wet seasons with a morning star/volt goat jelly

also i don't see a good thing to reduce the difficulty in the harder area of the game

[Frosty_Mentos]

I agree with Aru in the sense the it's the deepest part of the caves that's also likely to be weathered the most by elements and possibly floods. It's really weird though how water works in the game, it's like there's no bottom to this world and it goes all into the void and probably back up...

Alas ruins should be bigger and more dangerous in a sense. I remember in singleplayer you had to keep attention to most loudest snores of bishops nearby to not wake them up, or to know how many clocks are nearby to know how well you'll deal with them. The current ruins are very predictable and you know where everything is. I do wish there were a bit more RNG base on it, even if I do like the look of some of those areas I do thing there is a big need for more roaming to be added.

I'm partial to this idea but I think any creature or item with night vision should be greatly reduced but remain higher vision than things like lanterns and miners caps WHILE you're in ruins, as if the darkness itself is trying to obscure your vision on purpose and the inky depths are that tense nightmare fuel wise. Claustrophobia is the main gimmick I wanna see better executed in the current ruins or a potential reimagining of them, where your sense of hearing and being careful where you walk would make a great change for generally making ruins more exciting. The randomness alone in the game is probably why it's so replayable to which I say ruins greatly lack.

If bosses are buffed, we got raid bosses and all, I feel like ruins should feel like a greater challenge too for the loot you gain down there. Duplication, lazy gathering/teleportation and long lasting light and sanity sources along with powerful armor is what we are driven to go down there. No reason to be cheap on the most fun adventure content we got down there for the game without having a sort of improvement to it all. (unless we gonna get a rift intervention for the ruins then sure I guess that works too, but I better hope we get even cooler shinier things in return! And trophies to decor our bases with ofc.)

[Mr.Oshiro]

30 minutes ago, arubaro said:

im really against this suggestion

rain opens strategies. As wurt and warly i love to go to clean the ruins in wet seasons with a morning star/volt goat jelly

also i don't see a good thing to reduce the difficulty in the harder area of the game

I think that not raining in ruins is like other weather mechanisms, such as not seeing the moon in caves (affecting Woody), not appearing lightning (unable to use telelocator staff), etc. This natural mechanism should have a higher priority than other things. The Morning star/volt goat jelly do require water to maximize their effectiveness. We can enhance the effect of water balls or add other things that can make organisms moist, but using an unreasonable mechanism is not appropriate.

If you read the content behind the thread, you will find that I did not reduce the difficulty of the ruins. On the contrary, I hope it becomes more difficult and has more rewards. But as I mentioned earlier, rain should not be a difficulty to face in ruins, it should belong to the surface and shallow cave areas. The ruins requires more challenges with regional characteristics such as nightmare cycles, maze terrain, and mob threats.They can enhance the atmosphere of the entire region.

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, Mr.Oshiro said:

I think that not raining in ruins is like other weather mechanisms, such as not seeing the moon in caves (affecting Woody), not appearing lightning (unable to use telelocator staff), etc. This natural mechanism should have a higher priority than other things. The Morning star/volt goat jelly do require water to maximize their effectiveness. We can enhance the effect of water balls or add other things that can make organisms moist, but using an unreasonable mechanism is not appropriate.

If you read the content behind the thread, you will find that I did not reduce the difficulty of the ruins. On the contrary, I hope it becomes more difficult and has more rewards. But as I mentioned earlier, rain should not be a difficulty to face in ruins, it should belong to the surface and shallow cave areas. The ruins requires more challenges with regional characteristics such as nightmare cycles, maze terrain, and mob threats.They can enhance the atmosphere of the entire region.

no, i think that being surprised by weather hazzards is required. 

same goes for temperature. I even wont be against if returning back overheating in the caves so we experience that mechanic, not asking to add it but neither agaisnt since caves already gives a lot of benefits against summer 

[Mr.Oshiro]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

no, i think that being surprised by weather hazzards is required. 

same goes for temperature. I even wont be against if returning back overheating in the caves so we experience that mechanic, not asking to add it but neither agaisnt since caves already gives a lot of benefits against summer 

Weather hazzards have no significance in caves. In the surface, various natural disasters do not exist alone, and each season has unique filters, sound effects, time periods, and mob changes: the blue filters in winter, uninterrupted wind sounds, snow scenes, and furry white rabbits tell players the arrival of severe cold, the green filters of spring, constantly gloomy tones, collapsed rabbit holes, rapidly growing flowers and crops tell players that this season is full of rain and life, while the orange filters in summer, endless insect chirping, withered plants, and smoldering tell players that heat waves are threatening their lives, as well as snow sparrows, blue elephants ,Lureplants, blooming cacti, and more are all telling players about the changing seasons, prompting them to find ways to adapt to the new environment. All of these contents, combined, bring players a year-round adventure experience.But what about the caves? They all disappeared, leaving only pitiful temperature and rain mechanisms, intertwined with the infinite darkness and decreasing sanity underground, and instead destroyed the adventure experience of the caves.

As for the temperature of the caves, I think the summer benefits of the caves are accidental, because Klei simply multiplies it by 0.6 based on the surface temperature, without any seasonal adjustments. When the temperature is above zero, it is lower, but when it is below zero, it is even higher. This consequence is absurd because of a mathematical problem.

[Antynomity]

My dopamine fried brain can't get to read that right now, but hopefully this does get taken into account, the ruins in DST are so, so, so boring.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Mr.Oshiro said:

Weather hazzards have no significance in caves

then why removing them?

2 hours ago, Mr.Oshiro said:

In the surface, various natural disasters do not exist alone, and each season has unique filters, sound effects, time periods, and mob changes: the blue filters in winter, uninterrupted wind sounds, snow scenes, and furry white rabbits tell players the arrival of severe cold, the green filters of spring, constantly gloomy tones, collapsed rabbit holes, rapidly growing flowers and crops tell players that this season is full of rain and life, while the orange filters in summer, endless insect chirping, withered plants, and smoldering tell players that heat waves are [...]

then they should develop futher to match the changes in the surface instead of removing

caves would be more alive with seasonal changes and mob migrations like how geese come to the continent to raise their childs

season are a obvious mechanic for s survival game but very few games have them, dst can improve them to make it an even unique game

2 hours ago, Mr.Oshiro said:

As for the temperature of the caves, I think the summer benefits of the caves are accidental, because Klei simply multiplies it by 0.6 based on the surface temperature, without any seasonal adjustments. When the temperature is above zero, it is lower, but when it is below zero, it is even higher. This consequence is absurd because of a mathematical problem.

that only means that might not be intended so removing temperature from ruins is even less fitting 

[Mr.Oshiro]

18 hours ago, Frosty_Mentos said:

I agree with Aru in the sense the it's the deepest part of the caves that's also likely to be weathered the most by elements and possibly floods. It's really weird though how water works in the game, it's like there's no bottom to this world and it goes all into the void and probably back up...

Alas ruins should be bigger and more dangerous in a sense. I remember in singleplayer you had to keep attention to most loudest snores of bishops nearby to not wake them up, or to know how many clocks are nearby to know how well you'll deal with them. The current ruins are very predictable and you know where everything is. I do wish there were a bit more RNG base on it, even if I do like the look of some of those areas I do thing there is a big need for more roaming to be added.

I'm partial to this idea but I think any creature or item with night vision should be greatly reduced but remain higher vision than things like lanterns and miners caps WHILE you're in ruins, as if the darkness itself is trying to obscure your vision on purpose and the inky depths are that tense nightmare fuel wise. Claustrophobia is the main gimmick I wanna see better executed in the current ruins or a potential reimagining of them, where your sense of hearing and being careful where you walk would make a great change for generally making ruins more exciting. The randomness alone in the game is probably why it's so replayable to which I say ruins greatly lack.

If bosses are buffed, we got raid bosses and all, I feel like ruins should feel like a greater challenge too for the loot you gain down there. Duplication, lazy gathering/teleportation and long lasting light and sanity sources along with powerful armor is what we are driven to go down there. No reason to be cheap on the most fun adventure content we got down there for the game without having a sort of improvement to it all. (unless we gonna get a rift intervention for the ruins then sure I guess that works too, but I better hope we get even cooler shinier things in return! And trophies to decor our bases with ofc.)

Water is indeed weird. Under normal settings, rain is rare in seasons other than spring, which limits almost all water related props to spring. However, there is no reason for them to only function in one season, and we urgently need other things that can increase humidity.

[Mr.Oshiro]

21 hours ago, Antynomity said:

My dopamine fried brain can't get to read that right now, but hopefully this does get taken into account, the ruins in DST are so, so, so boring.

As a legacy of ancient civilization, there is so much that can be expanded in this region, and I really hope that Klei can take it seriously.

[Creatorofswamps]

You know, if they at least just return the ruins as it was in Ds, then it would be cool

[Mr.Oshiro]

30 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

You know, if they at least just return the ruins as it was in Ds, then it would be cool

I also think so. apart from the atrium, the ruins of DST are almost just a simplified version of DS