Ocean or cave update ?

[JustAFlower]

55 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Ruins content does not cease to be Ruins content. And you can see how empty the rest of the cave map is.

Oh my me, stop being such an obsessive parasite with DS and DST, can't you just learn to move on ??

[Hungry French]

36 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

For comparision, here are the caves of pre and post QOL DS:

  Hide contents

36 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

For comparision, here are the caves of pre and post QOL DS:

  Hide contents

Even with how stringy the current caves are, I can say with a pretty good degree of confidence that they at least tweaked the generation for the better in DST. Biomes feel a lot more coherent and less stringy in the biomes themselves, and you get far less branches of either nothing or blue mush biomes throughout 80% of the caves.

I would want the generation to have more content, and I think thats a staple for everyone here. But saying they haven’t been update since 2013 is incorrect.

Realistically, all I want is to be able to break permanent obstacles and have a cave dock equivalent. That would make them tolerable for building, which I think would be neat as I think cave bases have a lot of untapped potential that isn’t too utilized with how many things get in the way at the moment.

 

Even with how stringy the current caves are, I can say with a pretty good degree of confidence that they at least tweaked the generation for the better in DST. Biomes feel a lot more coherent and less stringy in the biomes themselves, and you get far less branches of either nothing or blue mush biomes throughout 80% of the caves.

I would want the generation to have more content, and I think thats a staple for everyone here. But saying they haven’t been update since 2013 is incorrect.

Realistically, all I want is to be able to break permanent obstacles and have a cave dock equivalent. That would make them tolerable for building, which I think would be neat as I think cave bases have a lot of untapped potential that isn’t too utilized with how many things get in the way at the moment.

The caves in the DST have been changed due to multiplayer needs.

Some biomes were removed as the tentacle biome, the slurtle and bunnymans biome replaced the biome and the generation principle.

The caves in DST are too perfect. They are too similar to the surface. DS caves are beautiful with their chaos and they are darker and you will not see giant forests of mushrooms there illuminating the entire screen.

Although everyone has their own caves. Not DST caves were made for multiplayer and this is a fact.

29 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

Oh my me, stop being such an obsessive parasite with DS and DST, can't you just learn to move on ??

Move on to DS New Home ?

Maybe you 're an obsessive parasite ? Well, damn. Don't be toxic bro.

[Maxil20]

12 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Some biomes were removed as the tentacle biome, the slurtle and bunnymans biome replaced the biome and the generation principle.

The biomes were reworked. The mud biome essentially functions the same as the old tentacle field in terms of light flowers, and tentacles being reworked to function as wormholes meaning clumping many together would be fairly redundant, while also doubling as a place where you find most of the slurtles compared to the blue mush slurtle biomes. The green mush biome is the new blue mush bunnymen biome (there’s even a guaranteed bunnymen village in it).

The caves in DS were darker, but it’s not like DST has multiple areas where it is still very dark, especially the stalagmite fields.

I just fail to see how these cave generations make it problematic for being “too perfect”. DST caves were made for multiplayer, but it’s not like you get value out of these changes if you play by yourself, either.

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

I just fail to see how these cave generations make it problematic for being “too perfect”. DST caves were made for multiplayer, but it’s not like you get value out of these changes if you play by yourself, either.

It is quite easy to benefit when there are so many light bulbs, mushroom forests ( which can 't end ) in the DST and it is much easier to find ruins than in the DS. There are also a lot of basic resources.( which can 't end ).
And under “too perfect” I meant that the caves have lost their unique style of generating biomes.

[Maxil20]

3 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

It is quite easy to benefit when there are so many light bulbs, mushroom forests ( which can 't end ) in the DST and it is much easier to find ruins than in the DS.

In DS, there is a very noticeable tell of what biome is connecting the ruins (it is always connected to a blue mush bunnymen village, and said biome where the sinkhoke is in has both types of stalagmites along with batalisks and cave spiders). Knowing this you can reduce the exploration of most biomes a lot and dart for the bunnymen villages when possible. It normally took me ~5-10 minutes on average to find the ruins with this knowledge with the only speed boost being the cane (if you are using coffee, you can roughly cut that time in half).

Light bulbs are debatable, since in most cases the light flower swamp would connect right to the entrance of the caves, and the ruins of DS pretty consistently have a lot of light bulbs to use in it’s entrance biome. It’s easy to stock up on bulbs in these places to prepare for the exploration ahead.

8 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

And under “too perfect” I meant that the caves have lost their unique style of generating biomes.

We can agree to disagree on this. I personally prefer the DST gen as it gives a feeling of whimsical nature to the caves. I enjoy going through the colorful mushroom fields or the nature of the light flower areas. I can, however, also understand why the DS caves are preferred because of the way they generate and how the lack of light influences the feel of said caves.

[Hungry French]

25 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

In DS, there is a very noticeable tell of what biome is connecting the ruins (it is always connected to a blue mush bunnymen village, and said biome where the sinkhoke is in has both types of stalagmites along with batalisks and cave spiders). Knowing this you can reduce the exploration of most biomes a lot and dart for the bunnymen villages when possible. It normally took me ~5-10 minutes on average to find the ruins with this knowledge with the only speed boost being the cane (if you are using coffee, you can roughly cut that time in half).

Finding ruins in the DST takes no more time. And the ruins themselves in DS are less dangerous.

 

26 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

Light bulbs are debatable, since in most cases the light flower swamp would connect right to the entrance of the caves, and the ruins of DS pretty consistently have a lot of light bulbs to use in it’s entrance biome. It’s easy to stock up on bulbs in these places to prepare for the exploration ahead.

In DST, there are always a bunch of light bulbs at the entrance to the caves. And no less in ruins.

 

27 minutes ago, Maxil20 said:

We can agree to disagree on this. I personally prefer the DST gen as it gives a feeling of whimsical nature to the caves. I enjoy going through the colorful mushroom fields or the nature of the light flower areas. I can, however, also understand why the DS caves are preferred because of the way they generate and how the lack of light influences the feel of said caves.

Old Beardlords... Also an important part of the caves...

[lenship2]

2 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Maybe you 're an obsessive parasite ? Well, damn. Don't be toxic bro.

the irony...

[JustAFlower]

12 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Maybe you 're an obsessive parasite ? Well, damn. Don't be toxic bro.

I don't have the patience (fortunately) to respond that, I will just say : No, no, I'm not. 

[Hungry French]

2 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

I don't have the patience (fortunately) to respond that, I will just say : No, no, I'm not. 

And I'm not. No one is a parasite.

[lenship2]

2 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

And I'm not. No one is a parasite.

its a metaphor for how you've polluted 40% of the threads in the past 2 days with your 'ds is ruined' nonsense :P

[Hungry French]

1 minute ago, lenship2 said:

its a metaphor for how you've polluted 40% of the threads in the past 2 days with your 'ds is ruined' nonsense :P

DS is ruined ? DS die. You probably haven't read my posts very carefully...

[JustAFlower]

3 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

DS is ruined ? DS die. You probably haven't read my posts very carefully...

From what I resume of almost everything you said:

-Well actually !! This should be a DS thing and I don't understand why is it different, what are technical issues and multiplayer, servers, ? I don't know.

-Why can't they bring it to DS, it's so easy, I do it everyday.

-But, but not connected that correctly with the lore so POOF not canon, I win.

-Compare these two games ?? They must be same picture because my eyes can't take it.

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

From what I resume of almost everything you said:

-Well actually !! This should be a DS thing and I don't understand why is it different, what are technical issues and multiplayer, servers, ? I don't know.

-Why can't they bring it to DS, it's so easy, I do it everyday.

-But, but not connected that correctly with the lore so POOF not canon, I win.

-Compare these two games ?? They must be same picture because my eyes can't take it.

It sounds sad that we didn't find a common language with you and you didn't understand me

[JustAFlower]

8 hours ago, Hungry French said:

It sounds sad that we didn't find a common language with you and you didn't understand me

I know so sad, I can't understand those moments where you were saying how sometimes Klei was incredibly unrealistic or lazy just because they didn't make you happy and they were and still listening to their community with the development process, so sad, truly sad. And how sometimes you were always bringing your DS is dead bullmanure all over the place in topics that were clearly not for that. I'm so in the wrong here ! What a language ! 

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, JustAFlower said:

I know so sad, I can't understand those moments where you were saying how sometimes Klei was incredibly unrealistic or lazy just because they didn't make you happy and they were and still listening to their community with the development process, so sad, truly sad. And how sometimes you were always bringing your DS is dead bullmanure all over the place in topics that were clearly not for that. I'm so in the wrong here ! What a language ! 

Well, Klei doesn't always listen to the community. 
How many players asked for mobs scalling ? 7 years old ?

And not in all topics. In many cases, you can not even mention DS, because it is not related to the context

[Mike23Ua]

For me the ocean is highly boring, like when I play games that have an ocean in them (including Dont Starves Shipwrecked DLC) there is always atleast SOMETHING going on like for example, Waves forcing you to navigate your boat in different directions or OR something DST doesn’t appear to have at the moment- Underwater Mob Spawners (such as Ballphin Dens & StinkRay) Instead, DSTs Ocean Content (in my experience with it anyway…) is severally limited by being constrained to one biome or area of the map it’s allowed to spawn within.

For example: You will only EVER encounter Water Gliding Seastriders if you are in the Water Logged or Cookie Cutters if your in the Salt Formation Biome.

When what SHOULD Have happened was these mobs became global ocean mobs that had a “chance” to spawn just off screen from the player- For example it’s highly stupid a stray water gliding spider can’t be seen just gliding about on the water eating fireflies or something..

This would also have given Webber more opportunities besides his snickerdoodle switcher cookies or going all the way to Waterlogged Biome, to recruit SeaStriders.

Cookie Cutters that are designed to eat wood should very reasonably be sometimes seen around shipwreckage (those broken planks that sometime spawn in the water you can Hammer for Wood Planks) instead of being Constrained to Salt Formation biome.

Because of the way content has been constrained to its own little area the ocean feels like your sailing through an invisible loading screen before reaching a point of interest where things actually happen within the game.

And Sure- Maybe I should better prepare for ocean travel then just getting 1 or 2 oars and paddling out to sea, OR Maybe…. Just Maybe… More ways to obtain Wood and planks could be a periodically found experience as you sail across the otherwise flat, boring, empty.. mostly lifeless Ocean.

I have absolutely no idea how caves could possibly be getting more votes for a content update then the ocean, at least the caves have a lot of areas/resources and mobs to interact with.. I wish I could say the same for Ocean Content.

[Hungry French]

11 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I have absolutely no idea how caves could possibly be getting more votes for a content update then the ocean, at least the caves have a lot of areas/resources and mobs to interact with.. I wish I could say the same for Ocean Content.

What is there in the caves besides bunnyman's, slurtle, Nightmare Werepig and Toadstool ?

[Mike23Ua]

2 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

What is there in the caves besides bunnyman's, slurtle, Nightmare Werepig and Toadstool ?

Bats, Molebats, Mushgnomes, Splumonkey, Slurper, DepthWorms, various types of different Spiders (Armored, Spitter, etc) and that’s just the few I could name off the top of my head!

[Hungry French]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Bats, Molebats, Mushgnomes, Splumonkey, Slurper, DepthWorms, various types of different Spiders (Armored, Spitter, etc) and that’s just the few I could name off the top of my head!

Oh. Ruins content...

[gamehun20]

16 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Oh. Ruins content...

Half of those aint even in the ruins what are you talking about

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

The biomes were reworked. The mud biome essentially functions the same as the old tentacle field in terms of light flowers, and tentacles being reworked to function as wormholes meaning clumping many together would be fairly redundant, while also doubling as a place where you find most of the slurtles compared to the blue mush slurtle biomes. The green mush biome is the new blue mush bunnymen biome (there’s even a guaranteed bunnymen village in it).

The caves in DS were darker, but it’s not like DST has multiple areas where it is still very dark, especially the stalagmite fields.

I just fail to see how these cave generations make it problematic for being “too perfect”. DST caves were made for multiplayer, but it’s not like you get value out of these changes if you play by yourself, either.

What if the tentacle biome was basically a hub of wormholes that go to many places?

18 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Oh. Ruins content...

Splumonkey is the only one exclusive to the ruins. Though, "technically" it is.

29 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Bats, Molebats, Mushgnomes, Splumonkey, Slurper, DepthWorms, various types of different Spiders (Armored, Spitter, etc) and that’s just the few I could name off the top of my head!

Regular tentacles and tenta pillars too.

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Splumonkey is the only one exclusive to the ruins. Though, "technically" it is.

Dangling Depth Dwellers, Damaged Pieces, Slurper, and Naked Mole Bat, Ancient Sentrypede, Mush Gnome Dust Moth...But this is lore...

Toadstool is probably ruin boss. Because there are ruins ponds next to it...

 

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, Antynomity said:

you clearly didn't sail long enough to have to squeeze between a tiny part of the ocean between the void and mainland, or run across a spot you can't even sail through because the worldgen is bad bad horrendously bad

im convinced that i sailed waaaay more than you. Having world gen problems doesnt mean that sailing is unfun

maybe you havent sail that much so you think that these problems are common

[Yuuko]

7 hours ago, Hungry French said:

Well, Klei doesn't always listen to the community. 
How many players asked for mobs scalling ? 7 years old ?

And not in all topics. In many cases, you can not even mention DS, because it is not related to the context

I mean, asking for it doesn't mean you get it.  Also you SEE many players asking for it, but who would make a big post about asking for the game to stay the same?  Obviously visibility of people who want change is more evident... but that does not reflect the feelings of the playerbase at large.

For example I am personally making a LOT of noise about planar and my issues with it.  In a few polls I've run I've seen there is definitely a silent majority that loves planar.  This doesn't assuage my concerns but I can see why Klei would choose to ignore me in favor of many players who like the idea of "hard mode" even if it isn't harder and is just an excuse for power creep.  Perception isn't reality, so as artificial as it is if people like it then that is what is best for the game and Klei is right to do it.

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

For me the ocean is highly boring, like when I play games that have an ocean in them (including Dont Starves Shipwrecked DLC) there is always atleast SOMETHING going on like for example, Waves forcing you to navigate your boat in different directions or OR something DST doesn’t appear to have at the moment- Underwater Mob Spawners (such as Ballphin Dens & StinkRay) Instead, DSTs Ocean Content (in my experience with it anyway…) is severally limited by being constrained to one biome or area of the map it’s allowed to spawn within.

For example: You will only EVER encounter Water Gliding Seastriders if you are in the Water Logged or Cookie Cutters if your in the Salt Formation Biome.

When what SHOULD Have happened was these mobs became global ocean mobs that had a “chance” to spawn just off screen from the player- For example it’s highly stupid a stray water gliding spider can’t be seen just gliding about on the water eating fireflies or something..

Eh, gonna have a difference of opinion here.

We don't have waves - but we do have something that forces reactive navigation as you explore - which are the sea stacks.

We also have 3 bands of ocean, and anywhere away from shore you can have global spawns - sharks and Gnarwail.

I don't think these are done nearly as well as they are in SW... but these aren't the big problem.

The biggest problem for the ocean imo is that its too difficult to live on.  No matter what they change in the ocean if they don't change the optimal play from building multiple empty boats and just darting out for xyz thing and straight back to land... then it won't really matter.  They need to make investing in a boat base, and living a boat life as worth while - and add activities that keep you on the water - add more non-collision boat structures, or even just remove all structure collision on a boat - etc

[Antynomity]

6 hours ago, arubaro said:

im convinced that i sailed waaaay more than you. Having world gen problems doesnt mean that sailing is unfun

maybe you havent sail that much so you think that these problems are common

lmao