New DS update.

[Mike23Ua]

5 hours ago, _zwb said:

The reason why you don't have to simulate 7 worlds at once is because there's only one player, so only 1 world needs to be simulated and there's no separation of server and client simulations. In DST however you would have to keep other worlds stimulated because other players are there. It's pointless to talk about this when you don't even understand the technical reasons behind merging caves and ruins......

Borderlands was a game that came out way back in 2009, it was a Multiplayer co-op looter shooter game, and it had multiple “Levels” the player(s) could explore and play within. GunFire Reborn is a game made in 2023 (yes a newer reference) it was also a Multiplayer co-op looter shooter with multiple “levels” both of those games featured a nifty little feature that when a player attempted to activate switching levels a prompt would pop up on screen which allowed players to accept or decline fast travel.

[_zwb]

31 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

games featured a nifty little feature that when a player attempted to activate switching levels a prompt would pop up on screen which allowed players to accept or decline fast travel.

You mean all players have to go to a level together?

[Hungry French]

1 hour ago, MAKEMERMSPROUD said:

you know if you want the game to be more balanced around single player, there's a health scaling mod that tones down the health of all mobs to make it similar to what it was in normal don't starve

This is a good way. But in many aspects, DST is still bad...

[Mike23Ua]

46 minutes ago, _zwb said:

You mean all players have to go to a level together?

In theory, yes.. and there’s several ways Klei could go about handling that if they choose to.

Option 1- players can “request” fast travel to new locations players can accept or decline this travel. (I’ll explain this more later)

Option 2- only the HOST of a world can initiate travel protocols.

Or Option 3- before creating a world the player can choose rather they want Classic Forest or Hamlet Jungle, Standard Caves or Hamlet Temples. These can’t be changed after world creation, and would replace the current surface world & cave world with DLC choices.

Now if Option 1 was choosen there’s TWO ways Klei can go about doing that that could work.

1- all players have to accept travel or the travel prompt fails, or… 2-

Players who vote to travel are “Removed” from the current Server, and placed into a new one that’s running the world/zone they wanted to travel to.

So like for example Imagine your playing Fortnite Deathruns & at the end of the Deathrun there’s a wall with new locations you can go to, but if you Queue into 1, it removes you from the current death run and takes you to a whole other server.

The TL:DR is that if Klei wanted to port SW, Hamlet or even create brand new dlc world expansions for DST that it COULD work.. and we should stop saying that because DST is a multiplayer game that it’s just not possible..

[hoppin mandrake]

10 hours ago, Hungry French said:

This is the main problem of DST. You are forced by updates to leave a good alone game for a game that has been created for a lot of people on the server all its existence.

I can understand the advantages of high hp in creatures and bosses (although this was not done for solo players, but 2-6 people ) , but everything else that has been changed from DS and DST is an attempt to make the game convenient for multiplayer and in a solo game it feels terrible after a perfect alone experience in DS

Players literally have no choice and they are forced to either fall in love with the terrible solo DST experience or not play the game at all.

DST solo experience is as terrible as if 6 people could enter the DS world, where part of the mechanics works terribly for multiplayer and there are very few resources and there is no self-renewal of resources

Now we have DS complete = solo experience complete.
DST updating = multiplayer experience not complete (solo experience has already lived 2 times less than multiplayer experience simply because Klei added skins to DST)

If Klei are completed DS, and DST is a multiplayer experience, then the only way to get a new solo experience is to wait for the release of a new game in the Don't Starve universe (not New Home, but a new game from Klei)
 

 

I actually love playing solo on team oriented games. It rams up the difficulty immensely. I love playing party style RPGs like Pillars of Eternity solo, which is not easy at all. I thought it was awesome that that game added an achievment for beating the game without taking any party members.

[Valase]

1 hour ago, Hungry French said:

This is a good way. But in many aspects, DST is still bad...

then go play a game that you actually like. You are making such a fuss about playing a game that you don't like (DST) because you don't like playing the other version (DS). Like, you clearly don't like playing either games, otherwise you'd be playing one of them and not finding "reasons" to not play the og. Like you want to play DS, but you want the DST stuff, but you don't like DST enough to play DST, but you also don't like DS enough to play it either.

[oCrapaCreeper]

"DS is not updated"

What is this then? It's bigger than your average DST update and was made by one person.

Granted - I would love more updates down the line and would pay for more DLC - but the game is finished and they've gone far beyond what they originally promised. Remember that DS was supposed to be dropped after RoG was finished - everything that happened after is indeed a miracle.

[_zwb]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

In theory, yes..

That would be horrible. If Klei ever implement that there can never be one player stay at base and do farming, someone else going down to the ruins exploring. There would always be someone forced to leave the current level to do something they might not enjoy.

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Hamlet Temples

Hamlet interiors are on the same level as the main islands, just all shoved into a corner of the map. Although I doubt Klei would ever make SW and HAM into DST, not a wise move financially.

[Hungry French]

12 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Or Option 3- before creating a world the player can choose rather they want Classic Forest or Hamlet Jungle, Standard Caves or Hamlet Temples. These can’t be changed after world creation, and would replace the current surface world & cave world with DLC choices.

The game really lacks the choice in the DST settings of choosing the classic map generation, caves and ruins. At least as an OPTIONAL setting

[Hungry French]

13 hours ago, hoppin mandrake said:

I actually love playing solo on team oriented games. It rams up the difficulty immensely. I love playing party style RPGs like Pillars of Eternity solo, which is not easy at all. I thought it was awesome that that game added an achievment for beating the game without taking any party members.

The game is made so that the DS mechanics would be easier and more convenient for all players on the server. Because of which, the only real complication is the hp of creatures. But such hp can be done in DS too.

So the only difficulty of DST solo is the new content.

But it's not good to say that DST is more harder than DS because of new bosses, which are not added to DS because of money from skins and multiplayer players.

Yes, maybe everything is not only based on money.

It may be hard for Klei to support 2 games at the same time, but I can't believe that they like the state of the DS in which bugs, bad textures, there is no unique content except Hamlet, but Hamlet is much smaller than all the DST content.

DS could resist DST until 2018 .
In 2018, Together already had Island Adventure, and DS no longer had unique content.
In 2019, Hamlet was released, which is why it could withstand A New Reign (although its advantage is that it complements the empty world of RoG, and does not create the same empty new one).  
But... Now the DST has essentially 3 UNIQUE DLC's - A new Reign, Return of Them and From Beyond, and DS is just a Hamlet

For a full-fledged DLC, you can count :
The Curse of Moon Quay + An Eye for An Eye + A Little Drama and QOL + Character Refresh + Skill Spotlight Update

And I haven't remembered everything yet

12 hours ago, Valase said:

then go play a game that you actually like. You are making such a fuss about playing a game that you don't like (DST) because you don't like playing the other version (DS). Like, you clearly don't like playing either games, otherwise you'd be playing one of them and not finding "reasons" to not play the og. Like you want to play DS, but you want the DST stuff, but you don't like DST enough to play DST, but you also don't like DS enough to play it either.

I love DS and I play it. But apart from good solo mechanics and map generation, there is no unique content (and Hamlet of course).

In DS, you very quickly come to the fact that there is nothing to do

There are no 6 bosses on the surface, no moonstone (for Moon Caller's Staff). Because of this, the world is not explored in DS as thoroughly as it is done in DST.

Caves are even more useless to study.  There are no 3 bosses, no Atrium and no Lunar Mushroom Forest and no Ancient Archive. Only the entrance to the ruins...

It's not bad in ruins, but cave hole gives you more motivation to fully explore Wild and Village.
And lesser glow berry would give motivation to return to the ruins, which would be fuel for moogles, because the worms in the ruins are not endless

I don't know about the ocean. I like Celestial champion and lunar storms, but in DS the ocean looks like something is not needed.
I would like moon island, monkey Island and crab hermit, but only if Klei came up with a cool way to move to these islands using wormholes or new items that would be mined in the Ancient Archive

DS is a good game, but it is not being updated.And playing the game endlessly is not possible, which has been stagnating for years and becoming less unique due to DST updates.

And you can play DST for years, because you constantly get DLC's and updates

[Hungry French]

12 hours ago, _zwb said:

Although I doubt Klei would ever make SW and HAM into DST, not a wise move financially.

Huh. Getting a lot of money is unwise

12 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

"DS is not updated"

What is this then? It's bigger than your average DST update and was made by one person.

Remember when there was at least a QoL before the Mega Update.

January 11, 2019 - Quality of Life

That is all

When was the last content update ?

October 22, 2013 - All's Well that Maxwell

And now together 2016-2023 updates :

12 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

Granted - I would love more updates down the line and would pay for more DLC - but the game is finished and they've gone far beyond what they originally promised. Remember that DS was supposed to be dropped after RoG was finished - everything that happened after is indeed a miracle.

The miracle is that DST is still not finished and that it is bigger and lives longer than DS.

The current state of DS against the background of DST really looks like a dropped game.

I only have questions for Klei :

Why is DST supported much longer than DS and has a higher quality than DS ?

Why hasn't there been a good solo experience in DST for 7 years?

And in general Klei do you remember that there are alone players in DST exist ?

[WenericMember]

41 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Why is DST supported much longer than DS and has a higher quality than DS ?

I think the easy answer for this one is skins.

The income Klei probably gets from releasing new skin sets means that they aren't wholly reliant on selling new copies of the game, something that would die off eventually. Don't Starve probably slowed down in sales, which meant they needed a new source of income. As long as they keep on selling skins, they probably don't have to worry as much about attracting players.

As for the other question... I think they do realize that, but it's an incredibly difficult task to create challenges that are of fair difficulty for single and multiple players. I don't think any game has truly successfully incorporated the concept. Games like Mario Wonder and Cuphead trivialize all challenge in MP by providing infinite revives, while DST is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where some challenges become abominable on single player.

I think the main thing people could do is scaling HP (as many other mechanics would require lots of playtesting to scale properly), but I can only assume they hesitate to do that bc of cheese potential in multiplayer. Rather than tackling the boss as a group, everyone but one person logs off to solo a significantly weaker boss with the combined resources of 6 people.

[Hungry French]

38 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I think the easy answer for this one is skins.

The income Klei probably gets from releasing new skin sets means that they aren't wholly reliant on selling new copies of the game, something that would die off eventually. Don't Starve probably slowed down in sales, which meant they needed a new source of income. As long as they keep on selling skins, they probably don't have to worry as much about attracting players.

Instead of a new game, we could rewrite the DS code while maintaining a good solo game and adding an alternative mode with multiplayer as it is in the DST

It could be sold as DLC. We take the price of DST - price DS = price Together DLC

Nothing prevented updating and rewriting the DS code, and not literally making a separate game

[_zwb]

1 minute ago, Hungry French said:

Nothing prevented updating and rewriting the DS code, and not literally making a separate game

Except there is a reason. They had to rewrite the game engine for things like separating client and server

[Hungry French]

4 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Except there is a reason. They had to rewrite the game engine for things like separating client and server

Why separate client and server ?

[WenericMember]

8 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Instead of a new game, we could rewrite the DS code while maintaining a good solo game and adding an alternative mode with multiplayer as it is in the DST

It could be sold as DLC. We take the price of DST - price DS = price Together DLC

Nothing prevented updating and rewriting the DS code, and not literally making a separate game

Well... They could've. But over a decade ago they chose not to. They instead chose to make an experience designed focused from the core on multiplayer, leading to where we are today.

I don't think that really needs an explanation.

[_zwb]

5 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Why separate client and server ?

Because you want multiplayer mode?

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Well... They could've. But over a decade ago they chose not to. They instead chose to make an experience designed focused from the core on multiplayer, leading to where we are today.

I don't think that really needs an explanation.

They could create solo experience and multiplayer in one game...  
Alone game mode - what is in DS.
Multiplayer game mode - what is in DST...

6 minutes ago, _zwb said:

Because you want multiplayer mode?

Other games have solo and multiplayer modes in 1 game...

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Hungry French said:

They could create solo experience and multiplayer in one game...  
Alone game mode - what is in DS.
Multiplayer game mode - what is in DST...

I'm confused, what exactly are you advocating for?

If you want all of DST's content curated for a single player experience, you're asking for a significant amount of work for something with minimal return on investment. Almost every aspect of the game would have to be re-balanced and in some cases reworked to be balanced for an ideal single player experience. They aren't going to do that because 90% of players are happy with the current setup and wouldn't want to pay for what is effectively a balance patch.

If you want DS's existing content to be given the attention in terms of QOL, bug fixes and HD textures that DST has... It's a 10 year old game that's ended support for the most part. It's kind of like asking why they don't go back and update the original Spelunky, or Hollow Knight, or Wargroove or however many games that have gotten sequels on steam. Don't Starve had a pretty good run of post launch support for a purely single player experience.

[_zwb]

18 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Other games have solo and multiplayer modes in 1 game...

What "other game"? That could be any game, which may or may not be very different in the way it is programmed.

You know, DST qualifies as "other game" that have solo and multiplayer in one game, and how did they do that? They rewrite the game engine allowing separation of client and server.

[Hungry French]

12 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

If you want all of DST's content curated for a single player experience, you're asking for a significant amount of work for something with minimal return on investment.

You don't know that.

 

20 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I'm confused, what exactly are you advocating for?

Options for What Klei Can Do :

1. DLC's for DS.
2. Solo DLC for DST.
3, New game
4.Nothing ( and they do it successfully )

I would like 1 point, but I will also accept the well-implemented 2 and 3 points.

4 this is bad ending

10 minutes ago, _zwb said:

You know, DST qualifies as "other game" that have solo and multiplayer in one game, and how did they do that? They rewrite the game engine allowing separation of client and server.

There is no solo in the game, Only multiplayer. 

[_zwb]

5 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

There is no solo in the game, Only multiplayer. 

If you host a server without caves, and play alone, you're essentially playing single player DS with DST stuff. Or use the Don't Starve Alone mod, it'll be the same.

[WenericMember]

5 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

You don't know that.

 

Options for What Klei Can Do :

1. DLC's for DS.
2. Solo DLC for DST.
3, New game
4.Nothing ( and they do it successfully )

I would like 1 point, but I will also accept the well-implemented 2 and 3 points.

4 this is bad ending

There is no solo in the game, Only multiplayer. 

You're right I don't know that... but I think if it was as easy as you think it is they would've done it. I can't say it would be hard any more than you can say it would be easy.

The rest... You're basically saying "give up on DST and go back to DS." It's not like Klei are just choosing not to make content, everything has an opportunity cost, and ANY of the three options you listed would be incredibly resource intensive compared to what they're doing now, significantly reducing any continuing output on DST.

Solo DLC fo DST would require a team to completely rebalance the game for no truly new content. 

DLC's for DS would require a completely separate dev team presumably,

A new Game would be a combination of both.

I get wanting a more single player orientated experience but... Yeah, Don't Starve Together IS a multiplayer game. It has been designed from the start as a multiplayer game. A single player mode isn't a priority because it's not a single player game.

[Hungry French]

3 minutes ago, _zwb said:

If you host a server without caves, and play alone, you're essentially playing single player DS with DST stuff. Or use the Don't Starve Alone mod, it'll be the same.

There are caves and ruins in single DS... And the mechanics there are made for a single player...

Don't Starve Alone only makes the game not lagging, but DS is a good solo game not only because it is optimized and has lower hp for creatures than in DST...
 

14 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

You're right I don't know that... but I think if it was as easy as you think it is they would've done it. I can't say it would be hard any more than you can say it would be easy.

But Klei could tell...

 

17 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

The rest... You're basically saying "give up on DST and go back to DS." It's not like Klei are just choosing not to make content, everything has an opportunity cost, and ANY of the three options you listed would be incredibly resource intensive compared to what they're doing now, significantly reducing any continuing output on DST.

Well, do not throw DST...
 

 

19 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Solo DLC fo DST would require a team to completely rebalance the game for no truly new content. 

This is a mandatory part of the DLC

 

21 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

DLC's for DS would require a completely separate dev team presumably,

Presumably.So it may be easier than it seems... maybe...Where is Klei 's opinion ?

 

25 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

A new Game would be a combination of both.

Wouldn 't that be wonderful ?

 

26 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I get wanting a more single player orientated experience but... Yeah, Don't Starve Together IS a multiplayer game. It has been designed from the start as a multiplayer game. A single player mode isn't a priority because it's not a single player game.

So the new game is the best option of all for reviving the single player experience ?
If Klei remembers that solo experience once existed...

[_zwb]

36 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

There are caves and ruins in single DS... And the mechanics there are made for a single player...

Don't Starve Alone only makes the game not lagging,

I feel like you know little about the technical details behind those and there's no point talking about those if that's the case. I'm out.