So Walter's gotta be the next skill tree right?

[Mysterious box]

41 minutes ago, chirsg said:

I didn't. I fought them fair. 

From what they said in the stream they focused on making sure these bosses were perfectly doable without a speed multiplier so we might just need practice. 

34 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

I never make ice staffs unless for crab king, one slot for 20 uses and it takes 2 freezes most of the time isnt worth it. However 60uses for one slot and double freeze power that the freeze rounds provide make them more than worth it for general day to day use. I use them all the time in the ruins to freeze clockworks to divide an conquer.

I've said this in the past many times but freeze rounds are more expensive, waste shots on old numbered freezing enemies, have a chance to misfire, and bring about more risk in combat due to their delayed activation.

36 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Slowdown rounds help to kite bosses like dfly, ancient guardian, CC. Also if you use followers like bunnymen for extra damage, slowdown rounds help them to catch up to bosses like bee queen. Also its good if you want to give breathing room from a boss to heal etc.

Outside of cc I haven't noticed a noticable advantage to using them at melee range especially not on dragonfly.

 

38 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

60 gold rounds in my slingshot is perfect for them niche moments i want to use it. Killing big/small tentacles, finishing off mushgnomes, drawing aggro of koalafants, killing vargs/ewecus while mounted on woby, weakening moslings before killing moose, i really enjoy killing spulmonkeys that are annoyingly following me but stay outside melee range. Ill get some extra gold rounds for killing phase 2 klaus. Killing brightshades for the first time before i get a brightshade sword. Aggroing nightmare werepig.

Issue is all of this aside from the brightshades which I agree on is incredibly niche.

42 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Thulecite rounds are pretty cheap to stockpile for killing bee queen and phase 3 CC. Doesnt even feel inconvenient to hoard them for these fights.

Idk about you but grinding out 45 thulecite fragments and nightmare fuel for a single fight seems really expensive and inconvenient to me.

 

45 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Marble rounds are a waste of time unless you have made some merm huts and a clever disguise to farm them with in the late game.

[kroban]

22 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Woby is what defines Walter. Not his slingshot. 

Both the slingshot AND Woby are what defines Walter. He was literally made with the idea of him being THE ranged character, THE character with whom you shouldnt be fighting melee. The only reason the slingshot sucks is because devs tried to "keep it balanced" years ago in a time where they didn't want to mess around with ranged items too much or  "the combat system would break", so they "balanced" the slingshot to a ridiculous point.

Walter's main drawbacks are mostly because he was designed as a "play it safe" ranged character, in a game where pre-rift updates you always had to fight melee.

Even Woby resisting only 1 attack as a mount was probably made with the idea of using her as a speed boost + the slingshot so you don't take damage. If Woby was truly what defines Walter she would have been much more than a cheap mount, something more along the lines of Abigail for Wendy, a companion that carries the entire character

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

I've said this in the past many times but freeze rounds are more expensive, waste shots on old numbered freezing enemies, have a chance to misfire, and bring about more risk in combat due to their delayed activation.

They do not bring more risk in the slightest if anything im less likely to misclick to fire an extra round like with the fast firing ice staff lol freeze rounds make me use the freeze mechanic meaning they have done their job to engage me. Moon rocks are dirt cheap and arnt used by much except the celestial portal, archives + lunar + mosaic and you will have loads of moon rocks.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Issue is all of this aside from the brightshades which I agree on is incredibly niche.

 

Wormwoods farming is niche when all you need is to ram meatballs or kelp as wurt to survive. Just because its "niche" an sounds not useful to you doesnt mean its not useful. I still cant believe you are a Walter main when you dont even take advantage of any of Walters niches.

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Idk about you but grinding out 45 thulecite fragments and nightmare fuel for a single fight seems really expensive and inconvenient to me.

For bee queen you mean? Its only 20 fragments and 20 nightmare fuel. I use Walters primary perk of big woby speed an extra storage to rush 9 bunnymen hutches at bee queen so i need less rounds for that fight everytime. 

As for the jackie chan reaction: marble rounds are a late game luxury however by the time you get a nice marble scrub farm going you will have bone armour and other things to make ranged combat for bosses pointless. Marble obtained early in the game is better spent on marble suits for fights like dfly. As Walter if i get 12 marble in the early game ill make 2 marble suits and kill dfly before rushing ruins. The 95% damage reduction means i can do the fight without needing sanity or health healing, saving time/annoyance/prep. Hence marble rounds just arnt as good as marble suits for Walter generally speaking.

 

1 hour ago, kroban said:

If Woby was truly what defines Walter she would have been much more than a cheap mount, something more along the lines of Abigail for Wendy, a companion that carries the entire character

My problem exactly! Woby should be much more than a cheap mount. Walters short is called Constant Companion and its all about Walter and woby like Wendy's short was all about Wendy and Abigail. This is why Woby needs more attention and priority over the slingshot for buffs.

[HeatAndRun]

Buff Walter please rather than nerf the dart.
The dart is totally fine as it is.

[Jakepeng99]

11 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I say this because the new blowdart outclasses him so hard it's actually kinda crazy you attack at melee attack speeds with it and it does 68 damage per hit with a cost of only hound teeth as ammo. While Walter's slingshot does 51 damage per hit max unless you count the trinket costing marble or nightmare fuel and thulecite at half the speed of melee. I really love the update so far but this feels like making the lazy explorer refuellable with with seeds and giving it all Wortox's soul hopping mechanics. What do you all think?

They need to rework blowdarts too tbh

They are not really needed with Wolfgang mega damage combos realistically either since it is overkill.

[Gashzer]

20 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They need to rework blowdarts too tbh

They are not really needed with Wolfgang mega damage combos realistically either since it is overkill.

Since wolfgang has his own ranged weapons, blowdarts shouldnt be buffed by either his mightiness as how does having big muscles help to blow a dart?

Wigfrid however there is an arguement that her increase in damage comes from her skills with a weapon in combat not physical prowess alone. So wigfrid should keep her buff for blowdarts.

[Mysterious box]

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

They do not bring more risk in the slightest if anything im less likely to misclick to fire an extra round like with the fast firing ice staff lol freeze rounds make me use the freeze mechanic meaning they have done their job to engage me. Moon rocks are dirt cheap and arnt used by much except the celestial portal, archives + lunar + mosaic and you will have loads of moon rocks.

The delay does bring more risk as it leaves a opening to be attacked also due to their slow travel speed the actual projectile can miss enemies from time to time I just can't see a single advantage to using freeze rounds even more when cost is simply cheaper regardless of how cheap you feel moon rocks are. 

 

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Wormwoods farming is niche when all you need is to ram meatballs or kelp as wurt to survive. Just because its "niche" an sounds not useful to you doesnt mean its not useful. I still cant believe you are a Walter main when you dont even take advantage of any of Walters niches.

I wouldn't really call that niche for him he can turn seeds into food with no real effort increasing their hunger value and bringing additional useful benefits to teammates even if he doesn't feel like farming the proper way it's a impact that goes far beyond being niche.

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

For bee queen you mean? Its only 20 fragments and 20 nightmare fuel. I use Walters primary perk of big woby speed an extra storage to rush 9 bunnymen hutches at bee queen so i need less rounds for that fight everytime. 

Unless I made a mistake with my math somewhere it should take around 442 shots to put her down which is at least double what your saying.

 

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

As for the jackie chan reaction: marble rounds are a late game luxury however by the time you get a nice marble scrub farm going you will have bone armour and other things to make ranged combat for bosses pointless. Marble obtained early in the game is better spent on marble suits for fights like dfly. As Walter if i get 12 marble in the early game ill make 2 marble suits and kill dfly before rushing ruins. The 95% damage reduction means i can do the fight without needing sanity or health healing, saving time/annoyance/prep. Hence marble rounds just arnt as good as marble suits for Walter generally speaking.

See here's where I'm confused you can get gear on par with late game gear near immediately via the ruins in fact if your using thulecite rounds you should already have it so this doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense to me.

 

5 hours ago, Gashzer said:

My problem exactly! Woby should be much more than a cheap mount. Walters short is called Constant Companion and its all about Walter and woby like Wendy's short was all about Wendy and Abigail. This is why Woby needs more attention and priority over the slingshot for buffs.

Woby's mount gimmick directly asks you to use the slingshot for combat so if you choose to improve her as a mount the slingshot needs to be a priority also it's not like she couldn't just get abilities not related to her being a mount rather than competing with a beefalo as a mount something that'll be near impossible to do. Also as you said it's called constant companion not constant mount.

[Jakepeng99]

Woby was made to compliment Walter's slingshot. Not the other way round it seems. It should have more non direct ways to compliment the slingshot. 

[ShadowDuelist]

Walter should have his slingshot attack speed to be either the same as melee combat, or keep it slow as it is and have all pellets double their damage. This will give Walter about the same DPS as melee, but through the grindy and expensive pellet ammo as a con. With this change for instance, gold rounds will have the same DPS as a spear (currently they don’t, it’s half that due to slow firing)

That alone makes Walter to have instant access to a decent ranged side weapon, way sooner than everyone else. 

Also his special crowd control pellets should deal AOE somehow, perhaps with a special RMB attack or using more pellets or however you want to balance it out. Even if really small, but an AOE would give Walter’s positioning and precise shooting a more rewarding experience.

This would really work at any point of the game as true crowd control against the stuff you’d mostly use them with, which are mobs that outnumber you. While you can still keep using them against bosses as you probably would now.

If you don’t want ranged to outplay melee combat, you can just do like they did at the forge, don’t let ranged attacks stunlock enemies. So they can continue charging you and you have to either switch to melee or reposition often.

Finally I assume they will give Walter new ammo but I’d like if they gave Walter a way to upgrade his slingshot when the time comes, to one that add a bit of planar damage to all the other pellets, basically letting you recycle them into the late game. I don’t mind new pellet types but I’d focus Walter on new crazy crowd control effects more than adding straight up damage. He should never be at Wolfgang or Wanda damage dealt.

 

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

If you don’t want ranged to outplay melee combat, you can just do like they did at the forge

Honestly with the new dart the ships sailed on this boat as it has the potiental to replace melee quite easily even more so for varg farm users.

 

3 hours ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Walter should have his slingshot attack speed to be either the same as melee combat, or keep it slow as it is and have all pellets double their damage. This will give Walter about the same DPS as melee, but through the grindy and expensive pellet ammo as a con. With this change for instance, gold rounds will have the same DPS as a spear (currently they don’t, it’s half that due to slow firing)

That alone makes Walter to have instant access to a decent ranged side weapon, way sooner than everyone else. 

Also his special crowd control pellets should deal AOE somehow, perhaps with a special RMB attack or using more pellets or however you want to balance it out. Even if really small, but an AOE would give Walter’s positioning and precise shooting a more rewarding experience.

This would really work at any point of the game as true crowd control against the stuff you’d mostly use them with, which are mobs that outnumber you. While you can still keep using them against bosses as you probably would now.

If you don’t want ranged to outplay melee combat, you can just do like they did at the forge, don’t let ranged attacks stunlock enemies. So they can continue charging you and you have to either switch to melee or reposition often.

Finally I assume they will give Walter new ammo but I’d like if they gave Walter a way to upgrade his slingshot when the time comes, to one that add a bit of planar damage to all the other pellets, basically letting you recycle them into the late game. I don’t mind new pellet types but I’d focus Walter on new crazy crowd control effects more than adding straight up damage. He should never be at Wolfgang or Wanda damage dealt.

 

Honestly overall I completely agree with this but at the same time I'm beginning to think KLei's going to have to go way harder on Walter's Skill Tree than I was originally thinking because a most of his upsides are just flat out being replaced. The cult of the lamb fire is just better campfire stories, the void cloak completely replaces his insanity aura perk, beefalo is just a better Woby, and the howlitzer is a much much better slingshot. Basically at this point you can get a superior Walter experience without ever playing Walter...

[kroban]

19 hours ago, HeatAndRun said:

Buff Walter please rather than nerf the dart.
The dart is totally fine as it is.

Nah darts need to get nerfed, after testing it for a couple hours in beta I can safely say it deals waaay too much damage and it shoots way too fast, you can do more damage than Brightshade and Void sets with it. Like no joke, I was literally stealing aggro from the new bosses by just spamming darts, while I had 3 friends hitting melee with end game gear.

It also makes lots of characters more viable as ranged than melee, either because some have additional damage (Wolf, Wigfrid, and Warly), or for a character like Wes without having to risk anything.

And Warly? Bruh Its insane. With spice alone darts go from 68 to 76. With spicy Voltgoat Jelly its 132 if the target is wet. And if you also add the warbis set it goes to 156. With how cheap it is per shot its insane to be doing that much damage and with 0 risks, unlike Walter's case with his drawbacks and ****.