How to fix ranged combat in dst

[Capybara007]

Read all before replying

1. Enemies that have been hit by a ranged proyectile like a dart will get an invisible buff that isnt shown to the player called "stun inmunity" for 3-4 seconds

This makes it so if you have hit something that enemy will still be able to move towards you

This would only affect ranged weapons, melee should still stun

2. Reduce attack speed of darts, it will be better than having to nerf their damage to the ground, this nerf would be just so attacking with melee its still more dps

3. Darts and blowpipes become 2 different things, ive seen people want to add bows and stuff to dst but all they have to do is rework darts so they can become interesting

A blowpipe is crafted with 5 reeds and 1 rope, tier 2 science and has 100 uses 

Darts get a complete overhaul

Each craft grants x5 darts, made with the same materials as now but no reeds from the bpipe

Sleeping dart should become a normal damage dealing dart, 50 damage should be fine specially with the attack speed nerf i proposed

Darts are fine, as long as they make it so each craft is x5, keep their 100 damage

Fire darts are also fine, interesting that you have to switch to them every now and then instead of spamming like most darts

Electric darts are fine

With all of these changes not only darts are gonna feel more like something more alive that you can consider as an option in your mid game, but also gives the devs the possibility to add more blowpipe types, like a blowpipe made out of a gnarwhail horn, or a blowpipe that can shoot multiple darts loaded in it

4. Optional, add forge type of aiming, and reduce the proyectile traveling speed by a bit, it could come up with some interesting gameplay and aim required

5. Optional, specific characters and their damage buffs on darts, just a small headscratch from me, but from what i can understand wendy deals a bit less damage because of her lack of strenght, and wolfgang is very strong so he deals more damage, so why does that apply to darts? Like they blow stronger or weaker? Just a dumb detail that its not super important to bother

I dont want range to overshadow melee, melee combat offers a more interesting gameplay as you have to learn all of the enemies's kiting patterns while also being at more risk

I want range combat to be a smart solution for players in specific times

I will use a dart to shoot that monkey from my boat

I will use my darts for a little to attack toad when he has a lot of clouds around him

Or beequeen on her last 2 phases so i dont have to melee her

Or cc when he has a lot of crystals around him and i dont want to make him break them

Maybe i can kill this one warrior spider from afar so i have an easier time fighting the spiders on melee

Stuff like that, tell me what you think

[Jakepeng99]

This does mess with Walter a ton in every single aspect of his slingshot, but ignoring Walter, i like these changes a ton.

 

P.s, fire darts are not fine, they suck. They could come with base damage and have an area of effect damage, it would be a good niche for crowd control

[Capybara007]

If it affects walter, buff walter, if it affects boomerang, buff boomerang

Klei should not make the mistake most studios make of nerfing something in order to make the other options more appealing, the should BUFF those options to make them more appealing

And i tried fire darts an i liked using them

[Antynomity]

Yes, yes and yes.

[Gashzer]

Nice ideas but i doubt klei will tackle the mountain that is ranged combat anytime soon. The idea of mobs gaining stun immunity from ranged attacks could be applied to Walters slingshot. This means you could increase the fire rate of the slingshot and it would be balanced by the fact that mobs/bosses could still move towards you as you shoot.

[ShadowDuelist]

I agree with all that OP said and I would add that darts should -at least- stack up to 40 instead of the current 20. 

Currently even if you have the resources to mass craft them, they have a huge penalty in inventory slots compared to melee weapons (when comparing the amount of damage dealt divided by the amount of slots you need to dedicate to carry them, or the resources to craft more)
 

It’s probably fair that they take a bit more as a con for being ranged, but it shouldn’t be as much as it is now. As a practical example on my reasoning, with Wickerbottom I managed to get enough resources to use electric darts as a main weapon for everything throughout the rest of the game many times, but I never managed to make it work and reserved them only for bosses due to how much inventory space carrying them or crafting them on the go required, against having some fuel and a few living logs for pretty much the same results.

Carrying 40 sounds like a better number for an EDC weapon, still not as good as melee and still keeping Walter at an advantage here (he can stack 60 pellets)

[Cheggf]

I don't really understand why you're bothering with giving enemies stun immunity. Darts can be fired from so far that they aren't even starting their attack animations, so there's no threat of being attacked whether or not they're getting stunned.

[Capybara007]

32 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I don't really understand why you're bothering with giving enemies stun immunity. Darts can be fired from so far that they aren't even starting their attack animations, so there's no threat of being attacked whether or not they're getting stunned.

Its very notable in fights like fuelweaver where if he bone cages you you can spam darts to almost fully stop him from coming to you

[Antynomity]

34 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I don't really understand why you're bothering with giving enemies stun immunity. Darts can be fired from so far that they aren't even starting their attack animations, so there's no threat of being attacked whether or not they're getting stunned.

I think that's just supposed to be the equivalent of explosion resistance that bosses get from gunpowder.

Most mobs will die before they get to you if you've got enough darts.

[Cheggf]

10 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Its very notable in fights like fuelweaver where if he bone cages you you can spam darts to almost fully stop him from coming to you

Oh that sounds cool, an alternative to the Lazy Explorer to lessen reliance on it during the fight. Idk if it should be taken away. 

[Capybara007]

6 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Oh that sounds cool, an alternative to the Lazy Explorer to lessen reliance on it during the fight. Idk if it should be taken away. 

Yes it should be taken away, when you are caged all you will do is holf f withthe darts in your hand slot and that is not considering the extremely unfun process of farming feathers and reeds as a non wickerbotton

Fun should be balanced around "i can do a new alternative to the bone cage"

Not "i can now nullify this bone cage attack"

If we are going to analize balance using the second option then we should question ourselves if mechanics like the bone cage are actually healthy for the game

[Cheggf]

13 minutes ago, Capybara007 said:

Yes it should be taken away, when you are caged all you will do is holf f withthe darts in your hand slot and that is not considering the extremely unfun process of farming feathers and reeds as a non wickerbotton

Fun should be balanced around "i can do a new alternative to the bone cage"

Not "i can now nullify this bone cage attack"

If we are going to analize balance using the second option then we should question ourselves if mechanics like the bone cage are actually healthy for the game

Lazy explorer nullifies the cage by pressing right click. Nullifying what the enemies do is kind of the point of combat. They try to attack you, nullify it with a dodge. They try to trap you in a cage, nullify it with a lazy explorer or darts. They try to summon healing minions, nullify it with AoE damage. They try to summon totems that make them invincible, nullify it with the shadow amulet. They try to hit you with a stun that targets insane players, nullify it with sanity food.

If combat wasn't about nullifying what the enemies did, it would literally just be hold F and trade hits with them. A binary check with no skill: do you have the resources to tank them, or do you not?

[GreenBowers]

If you take the time to get a teleporting stick to completely negate the cage attack, why would taking the time to farm up ranged weapons be any different. The whole game is about prepping to face obstacles, or should we remove weather pain because it makes certain boss gimmicks easier.

 

[Jakepeng99]

I have an idea for a Moose Goose Blowdart related to the dart concept of this thread.

The dart deals 90 damage, and summons a tornado locked on top of the target which deals  60 damage every second for 3 seconds for a total damage of 250 per dart. The tornado does not interact with the environment and only mobs.

 

However, the Torndo will drag the enemy towards you at a moderate speed, potentially making it easier for it to hurt you. However, if you are clever you can use this to your advantage.