(Poll) The one thing to be fixed in Woodie's skill tree

[Jakepeng99]

It is about the were form masteries. I find the Moose one to be the one you always pick, and the others have no scenario where you would pick them, here is why:

 

Weregoose Mastery:

The mastery itself it not that bad, besides needing some buffs to the were meter drain when using it, but the stepping stones to the skill are. The dodge skill and Waterproof skill are not worth the points spent, nor are they impactful in what the goose is used for;  travelling. These skills could come with something extra attached, but the main problem arises is by choosing the goose you miss out on many points as 2 of them were wasted on nothing skills, and are locked out of other masteries. This one is not that bad but it could really be touched up on, the mastery has a good reason to pick that can not be offered elsewhere.

 

Werebeaver Mastery:

The slam is a funny idea, but even with the slam, he is still not that good at mass wood chopping. He becomes better at it, but Woodie should be able to outperform Maxwell with this skill since by picking it, you are locked out of his other masteries and the powerful Moose one. The slam itself has a pretty small radius. Nowdays the Wood part of Woodie is an added bonus, normally his Axe gets enough wood for the job anyway when combined with his board skill, his double tree guard damage makes them no problem to clean up, especially since the were Moose can destroy them easily afterwards.

 

Were Moose Mastery:

It is pretty good, rather than nerfing this mastery to make the others worth thinking about picking, they should buff the others instead. The rest of his skill tree is pretty solid.

 

 

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It is about the were form masteries. I find the Moose one to be the one you always pick, and the others have no scenario where you would pick them, here is why:

 

Weregoose Mastery:

The mastery itself it not that bad, besides needing some buffs to the were meter drain when using it, but the stepping stones to the skill are. The dodge skill and Waterproof skill are not worth the points spent, nor are they impactful in what the goose is used for;  travelling. These skills could come with something extra attached, but the main problem arises is by choosing the goose you miss out on many points. This one is not that bad but it could really be touched up on, the mastery has a good reason to pick that can not be offered elsewhere.

 

Werebeaver Mastery:

The slam is a funny idea, but even with the slam, he is still not that good at mass wood chopping. He becomes better at it, but Woodie should be able to outperform Maxwell with this skill since by picking it, you are locked out of his other masteries and the powerful Moose one. The slam itself has a pretty small radius. Nowdays the Wood part of Woodie is an added bonus, normally his Axe gets enough wood for the job anyway when combined with his board skill, his double tree guard damage makes them no problem to clean up, especially since the were Moose can destroy them easily afterwards.

 

Were Moose Mastery:

It is pretty good, rather than nerfing this mastery to make the others worth thinking about picking, they should buff the others instead. The rest of his skill tree is pretty solid.

 

 

Honestly I kept bringing this up in the beta as well it's completely pointless to ever pick anything besides the moose mastery not because the moose is too good but because the beaver and goose's mastery choices are too situational.

On a side note....Why in the world does his tail slap use up his wereness!

[gamehun20]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

On a side note....Why in the world does his tail slap use up his wereness!

The weremeter is a sort of tiredness meter hunger meter whatever thing you know more work more hungry 

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

The weremeter is a sort of tiredness meter hunger meter whatever thing you know more work more hungry 

I get that but because of that the werebeaver actually chops more wood without the ability than with it even if it's done in faster bursts with the skill which feels so weird.

I'd argue either the goose and beaver need their final abilities buffed to be more impactful or they should just remove the locks.

[Jakepeng99]

31 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I get that but because of that the werebeaver actually chops more wood without the ability than with it even if it's done in faster bursts with the skill which feels so weird.

I'd argue either the goose and beaver need their final abilities buffed to be more impactful or they should just remove the locks.

I only use the Beaver for mining nowdays which is ironic. I have used it to clear a hound mound and mine marble, though i never need the tail slap for those scenarios even though they would excel in those specific scenarios.

31 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I'd argue either the goose and beaver need their final abilities buffed to be more impactful or they should just remove the locks.

Maybe you can choose two skills and no more? They should still buff those skills anyway since you are still spending 4 points on the goose for 2 of them to do anything realistically.  

Most people now play Woodie for the were moose form including me.

Also bonus thing: Woodie with pigmen followers is faster than the were beaver, same as any other character who can befriend pigmen. They would die at tree guards unless you tank but worth mentioning.

[Cheggf]

I never use any mastery. I don't find them to be nearly as helpful as the other options. 

[Dextops]

9 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

I never use any mastery. I don't find them to be nearly as helpful as the other options. 

Really? Can you share what you usually invest in?

 

anyway I usually go moose solo and beaver if I’m with others

[Cheggf]

43 minutes ago, Dextops said:

Really? Can you share what you usually invest in?

Ya lemme open the game and take a picture.

In descending order of usefulness:

Picking grass/twigs/lightbulbs/berries/lichen nearly twice as quickly is enormous. Monumental. Huge. 

Wereforms last an eternity if you max out their duration. Moose can clear so much before he expires, and goose is basically guaranteed to find everything in the caves with just a single use.

Effectively spawning with a helmet allows you to immediately go to the ruins (what Woodie is best at) regardless of pigskin luck. I'm aware of sneaking past things without a helmet to find one from minomaze, but I find this to be unnecessarily risky for standard play.

Walking cane is cool, makes it feel less bad when AG doesn't drop an explorer.

Removing basically all of the snare from headbutting statues is great and speeds it up a lot. The higher base movespeed makes dodging much easier.

Moose healing over time helps if you're being a slowhead who's still in the ruins after your bluecaps spoiled.

Saving 20 damage from eating an idol isn't a big deal, and the hunger is really easy to play around, but it's convenient not needing to immediately eat something after transforming. I like it.

Not actually sure how much faster the goose & beaver are with the talents I've obtained since I didn't test it and the wiki didn't seem to say, but stat improvements are stat improvements. If I got rid of them it'd be to get the treeguard line or shadow immunity, not masteries.

 

Werebeaver mastery is useful for amassing logs, but it loses a lot of its power if you hadn't already pre-planted a forest which I often don't, and I find him to be good enough at harvesting with just Lucy/the first two werebeaver things.

Weremoose is already good enough base without the mastery. I use moose against groups, where the mastery doesn't help the charge, and against things in the ruins, which are easy enough where I don't need it to be any stronger. Once I'm done killing things in the ruins I have no more need for the moose since I have thul suits, thul crowns, magi, and enough nmf to make as many dark swords as I need. Don't see the point in spending two valuable points just to make moose comparable in strength to what I already am, the resources it saves are no longer useful.

I do not see the point of weregoose mastery.

Transforming during a full moon is a minor inconvenience at worst and beneficial at best. It happens so rarely.

Shadows not attacking wereforms is great, but not nearly as good as most perks I've picked. If I learn that the beaver/goose points I've picked offer small bonuses I might replace something with this.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I only use the Beaver for mining nowdays which is ironic. I have used it to clear a hound mound and mine marble, though i never need the tail slap for those scenarios even though they would excel in those specific scenarios.

I'm more or less the same I use the beaver for mining and hammering things I usually get the biggest mileage out of the beaver when I'm clearing out the ruins.

 

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Most people now play Woodie for the were moose form including me.

This is sad but true you get the most mileage out of the moose which makes sense when you consider combat is usually the most useful skill you can have on you at most times.

 

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Maybe you can choose two skills and no more? They should still buff those skills anyway since you are still spending 4 points on the goose for 2 of them to do anything realistically.  

That would definitely help a bit but honestly I still don't get why Kiel felt the need to lock the abilities in the first place they had to know no matter what the abilities were never going to be on equal footing purely by the nature of what they do.

[Gashzer]

Tbh the only mastery that changes gameplay in a tangible way is the goose mastery. Being able to fly up and appear randomly anywhere is fun even if its a niche early game perk. Moose mastery is overrated as the 3 moose skills are all farrrrr better functionally than the mastery... the mastery gives abit better dps but that isnt as important as more control over charge or health regen. Beaver mastery is ok but the beaver skill to mine hard materials like nightmare werepig pillars or brilliant lunar ore is alot more useful without using a mastery point.

However the only skills woodie actually needs a buff too is the quick pick skills. 3 points for a very little boost to picking speed is not worth it, the final picking skill should allow woodie to instant or close to instant pick stuff.

[Mysterious box]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Tbh the only mastery that changes gameplay in a tangible way is the goose mastery. Being able to fly up and appear randomly anywhere is fun even if its a niche early game perk. Moose mastery is overrated as the 3 moose skills are all farrrrr better functionally than the mastery... the mastery gives abit better dps but that isnt as important as more control over charge or health regen. Beaver mastery is ok but the beaver skill to mine hard materials like nightmare werepig pillars or brilliant lunar ore is alot more useful without using a mastery point.

However the only skills woodie actually needs a buff too is the quick pick skills. 3 points for a very little boost to picking speed is not worth it, the final picking skill should allow woodie to instant or close to instant pick stuff.

I don't think your using the moose's pound ability very well if you don't feel it makes a impact even putting it's end game applications aside the super armor and the pound work amazingly against smaller hordes or for rushing down specific high hp mobs and it makes a very noticeable impact on bosses.

[Jakepeng99]

7 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Tbh the only mastery that changes gameplay in a tangible way is the goose mastery. Being able to fly up and appear randomly anywhere is fun even if its a niche early game perk. Moose mastery is overrated as the 3 moose skills are all farrrrr better functionally than the mastery... the mastery gives abit better dps but that isnt as important as more control over charge or health regen. Beaver mastery is ok but the beaver skill to mine hard materials like nightmare werepig pillars or brilliant lunar ore is alot more useful without using a mastery point.

However the only skills woodie actually needs a buff too is the quick pick skills. 3 points for a very little boost to picking speed is not worth it, the final picking skill should allow woodie to instant or close to instant pick stuff.

The pound is the difference between lower than hambat dps and Wigfrid with darksword dps that comes with a powerful aoe.

[Sacco]

I honestly always choose weremoose mastery just because fighting is funnier and more engaging than farming resources with the slap or teleporting around.

In a group of people i think the weregoose ability is the best for this reason:

You probably have a gatherer like Wolfgang and Maxwell, so they will probably chop and mine everything you need faster than woodie, you have enough people to overwelm bosses/horde of enemies so the weremoose mastery is kind of pointless but there isn't any character that can teleport day 1, but woodie can, giving him the ability to rush Lunar Island and to map almost if not all biomes on the surface and caves.

[Jakepeng99]

10 minutes ago, Sacco said:

I honestly always choose weremoose mastery just because fighting is funnier and more engaging than farming resources with the slap or teleporting around.

In a group of people i think the weregoose ability is the best for this reason:

You probably have a gatherer like Wolfgang and Maxwell, so they will probably chop and mine everything you need faster than woodie, you have enough people to overwelm bosses/horde of enemies so the weremoose mastery is kind of pointless but there isn't any character that can teleport day 1, but woodie can, giving him the ability to rush Lunar Island and to map almost if not all biomes on the surface and caves.

Were moose can rush many bosses with 3 monster meat and 2 grass, it is also the best counter to brightshades in the game. It is good at farming hordes aswell. The were moose saves many resources and earns many back.

8 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Ya lemme open the game and take a picture.

In descending order of usefulness:

Picking grass/twigs/lightbulbs/berries/lichen nearly twice as quickly is enormous. Monumental. Huge. 

Wereforms last an eternity if you max out their duration. Moose can clear so much before he expires, and goose is basically guaranteed to find everything in the caves with just a single use.

Effectively spawning with a helmet allows you to immediately go to the ruins (what Woodie is best at) regardless of pigskin luck. I'm aware of sneaking past things without a helmet to find one from minomaze, but I find this to be unnecessarily risky for standard play.

Walking cane is cool, makes it feel less bad when AG doesn't drop an explorer.

Removing basically all of the snare from headbutting statues is great and speeds it up a lot. The higher base movespeed makes dodging much easier.

Moose healing over time helps if you're being a slowhead who's still in the ruins after your bluecaps spoiled.

Saving 20 damage from eating an idol isn't a big deal, and the hunger is really easy to play around, but it's convenient not needing to immediately eat something after transforming. I like it.

Not actually sure how much faster the goose & beaver are with the talents I've obtained since I didn't test it and the wiki didn't seem to say, but stat improvements are stat improvements. If I got rid of them it'd be to get the treeguard line or shadow immunity, not masteries.

 

Werebeaver mastery is useful for amassing logs, but it loses a lot of its power if you hadn't already pre-planted a forest which I often don't, and I find him to be good enough at harvesting with just Lucy/the first two werebeaver things.

Weremoose is already good enough base without the mastery. I use moose against groups, where the mastery doesn't help the charge, and against things in the ruins, which are easy enough where I don't need it to be any stronger. Once I'm done killing things in the ruins I have no more need for the moose since I have thul suits, thul crowns, magi, and enough nmf to make as many dark swords as I need. Don't see the point in spending two valuable points just to make moose comparable in strength to what I already am, the resources it saves are no longer useful.

I do not see the point of weregoose mastery.

Transforming during a full moon is a minor inconvenience at worst and beneficial at best. It happens so rarely.

Shadows not attacking wereforms is great, but not nearly as good as most perks I've picked. If I learn that the beaver/goose points I've picked offer small bonuses I might replace something with this.

You could probably remove the faster harvesting perks for were moose mastery and shadow perk. The were moose  makes fights much easier, faster and efficent, and the shadow perk lets you take less damage from everything in the ruins, on top of the neutral nightmares in were form. You don't really need faster picking if you focus on picking the 2-3 bulb plants, and you will probably use were forms which make you use alot less.

[b l a n k]

The WereGoose mastery is useless, and even more useless next to the WereMoose one. It's just not worth it to use, and too random, even early game.

- Let's say you want to find the lunar island fast. You have, on an average world, about 9% chances to land on the island after a takeoff, so in average you'd have to use 3 idols, probably more depending of your luck, just for that (and having 15 dots on your world map). Now, if you use those 3 idols normally instead: you can map the world's edges and roads completely, and go into the lunar island, without relying on any RNG.

- In the scenario you want to takeoff to escape a dangerous situation: why ? You already outrun everything as WereGoose with its first skill point, and the dodge skill point is a mini bone armor. I don't see a situation where using the mastery for this purpose is worth it. And if you do that while your WereGoose meter is running low, you will detransform upon landing in a situation that could be even more dangerous than before. This is, again, relying on RNG.

Sure, the mastery is funny to use, but that's all there is to it...

[Cheggf]

8 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You could probably remove the faster harvesting perks for were moose mastery and shadow perk. The were moose  makes fights much easier, faster and efficent, and the shadow perk lets you take less damage from everything in the ruins, on top of the neutral nightmares in were form. You don't really need faster picking if you focus on picking the 2-3 bulb plants, and you will probably use were forms which make you use alot less.

I should sacrifice DOUBLE, as in, the difference that WOLFGANG has for combat, DOUBLE gathering speed for twigs (permanently useful), grass (permanently useful), berries (um), mushrooms (um), lichen (extremely useful for ruins), lightbulbs (permanently useful), and anything else I'm forgetting off the top of my head so that the ruins that I do from like day 3-10 and then never again go from pretty easy to even easier?

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, b l a n k said:

The WereGoose mastery is useless, and even more useless next to the WereMoose one. It's just not worth it to use, and too random, even early game.

- Let's say you want to find the lunar island fast. You have, on an average world, about 9% chances to land in the island after a takeoff, so in average you'd have to use 3 idols, probably more depending of your luck, just for that (and having 15 dots on your world map). Now, if you use those 3 idols normally instead: you can map the world's edges and roads completely, and go into the lunar island, without relying on any RNG.

- In the scenario you want to takeoff to escape a dangerous situation: why ? You already outrun everything as WereGoose with its first skill point, and the dodge skill point is a mini bone armor. I don't see a situation where using the mastery for this purpose is worth it. And if you do that while your WereGoose meter is running low, you will detransform upon landing in a situation that could be even more dangerous than before. This is, again, relying on RNG.

Sure, the mastery is funny to use, but that's all there is to it...

By going around the edges, you are also exploring the map at the same time so yeah you are right it is pretty useless. Even with the skill, it would be better to walk it.

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Cheggf said:

, DOUBLE gathering speed for twigs

It's 66% for all 3 skills

[Cheggf]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

It's 66% for all 3 skills

Has it changed since July 14th?

On 7/14/2023 at 12:31 AM, Arcwell said:

 

[Arcwell]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:55 PM, Cheggf said:

Has it changed since July 14th?

It has not changed.

Here are all the tuning.lua changes to Woodie since July 14th:
(left is old, right is new, highlighted lines indicate changes)

Spoiler

[Cheggf]

54 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

It has not changed.

Here are all the tuning.lua changes to Woodie since July 14th:
(left is old, right is new, highlighted lines indicate changes)

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh it's in tuning.lua. Man, I looked just about everywhere except that, I was clicking on so many random files.